mtparker18

Well since all of my friends are getting faster cars (Impala SS, LS1 Camaro, Highly Modded LS1 T/A, etc..) I've come to the conclusion I want to do a swap. My car is an 03 GS300 btw.

I'm looking at either a GTE or an LS1. Which ever way I go I want to drop it into my car and have between 420-450whp. I would also like to convert my car to 5/6 speed vs auto.

Now I have a few questions...
1). Can I retain all my stock equipment (gauges, a/c all that) with LS1?
2). How much wiring is involved with either swap? I figure LS1 is going to be alot..

If I think of anymore questions, I'll post them.



Thanks for all your help guys!

denut-L

iTrader: (11)

I'm also looking into going the ls1 route and have the same ? only thing i would be concern about is the gauge working properly and the ac would have to be custom lines. The engine itself would be running on it's own computer so that shouldn't be a problem. Are you planning to do this yourself or taking it to a shop? I know that cleans14 have done the ls1 swap successfully. Maybe wanna check his built thread out for some more info.

ROPADOPA

I'm a fan of teh LS motor , but don't see it as the end all beat all , the gte has a higher ceiling in the HP department stock for stock motors, I'm talking before you bolt on heads / cams / gaskets/ intakes.

The toyota route will give you yo 500hp without even removing the valve covers. either way coool swaps.

njs

Mtparker, the GTE swap is relatively easy.. I knew nothing really about doing a swap and my boy who is a genius with Toyota engine walk me through it.. Granted he is doing all the real technical work... He is the one who told me what I need and where to buy the parts at.. 420 450 is not hard at all to get on the GTE engine.. Also u can find a r154 tranny in the junkyard for cheap! and all the parts u need can be found at driftmotion.com The thing about doing the GTE swap there's a lot of people trying to make big dollars off the owners..
Also as far as the wiring goes, with the Manuel transmission it really helps simplifies the swap!.. Hope this helps take care..

mtparker18

I love the LS motor. and I'd love to go NA over Turbo, but I think the GTE is over all easier. As far as the R154, I have no idea what kind of power it will hold. I would go V160, but the price of it is rediclous for only 450whp. I'll have to send Cleans14 a pm and ask him about his LS build

njs

there's guys running 700 to 1000 hp on there r154's.. But 420 to 450 is not a lot for that transmission.. If u want to get higher hp u just need to replace the thrust washer and some bearings and other stuff.. Also it's not HP that breaks trannys it's torque... Take care..

Gs430Boi

LS Motor relatively would cost less, $5000 to get it at 500hp and gte would cost $15000 or more to get it at 500hp

3UZFTE

Ok... this is what I'm talking about it... I like this discussion because it was about a year ago that I was thinking what would be the best. I, being a college student don't have much money, so needless to say I won't be doing either swap anytime soon. Plus, I have other projects that I'm working on.

Q#1 Yes, you can retain your stock stuff as you will be running 2 ecus, one for motor and one for car. You will need to buy a digital converter, like one from Dakota Electronics, to convert the LS signal to the GS tach, IIRC.
Q#2 Alot, and as they usually say, if you have to ask, it's not for you.. But the harness itself is pretty much made for you, so it's a matter of integrating all the power, accessories, A/C, tranny linkage, etc.. But it has been done before, and he said it wasn't the most difficult, but I think the shop did most of the fab work.

Anyways, as far as putting an LS_ motor in, the new LS3 is 453, and that's stock, that's not after heads, cam, intake, etc.... So please, when we say things, lets be factual, the same power that a 2J can produce, you can easily match with an LS_, not to mention any performance after you do crack the valve covers. Also, we all know what is going to be "easier", how many people are gte/na-t, all the information has been put on here and I think we all understand what is needed to make the Aristo conversion. That being said what hasn't been taped into is the LS_ world. If you buy cams for a 2J, just a rough guess, $500 and that's for one side (intake or exhaust), I would challenge anyone to pick up a summit/jegs and tell me the part number of any cam shaft that be as costly, and your only buying one. DOHC vs OHV, building a OHV is far cheaper every time. I love my Japanese motors, but this is something American companies have been doing for 100 years.

IMO, here are the benefits of going LS_ over GTE, and _UZ
- Out of box horsepower Without any mods, almost any LS_ motor is at least 300hp/300tq and will give the dyno to prove it. @Denut-L has a pretty penny in his exhaust, but barely got 275, boy was he upset... On a side note, Long, I got the Corvette back up there for 3 runs and got 225hp 277tq, but Jordan said it was was pretty rich, so I think a little later on, I'll have him mess with it one on one, maybe buy him a beer or two.
- Cost of performance parts, 1 cam and 16 valves vs. 2 cams and 24 valves, the cost of the V16_ turned me off of the 2JZ/6psd swap, who doesn't make performance parts for LS_, besides... Mine's, Tom's, HKS, Jun, etc..?
- Amount of aftermarket parts, have you ever looked at through summit/jegs?
- Availability of engines/transmissions/parts, who can't find an LS_ motor/parts? But you can always get heads, cams, intakes, TBs, blocks from other LS_ cars and darn near interchange them all, obviously with a few exceptions. You can even get VVT LS_ motors now. Not to mention the amount of transmissions as options available such as the T-56/4L60e/TH350/700R4... yata. yata. yata.

And here are the advantages of going GTE over LS_
- It has been done before, R&D has been done, you know what you need. (no custom driveshaft, engine mount, tranny mount, etc.)
- Single turbo is cheap and easy horsepower, and like someone mentioned, you almost don't even have to crack the valve covers to make cheap and dirty horsepower.
- ECU confusion, there is none, again R&D has been done.
- One of the best, if not the best FI engines on the market, there's nothing like a 3.0L that can dance all over 7.0L V8s... (i.e. JeffTsai and others)

Honestly, I love both of them. It kills me that we have to choose, but lets face it... It' far more expensive to put a motor in a car that never came with it. I subscribed to CleanS14's thread like everyone else, but let's just face it, it wasn't cheap. Anyways, the morale of the story is discuss what we or you are looking for, and that is mostly what will pretty much give you the idea of what you want to do... So you want to drive a rubber band (GTE), the further you pull it back the more it flies... and the V8 is going to give you torque at idle, let alone 2k and throughout the power band. There is a IS300 NA-t around here, (Kailyin on other boards), and he is around 600-700, he isn't one to kiss and tell, but he he doesn't even build boost until 4k, that's a rubber band. A very cool rubber band, nonetheless. Again. I love both motors, I've have V8s my whole life, the next thing I do is sell my 430 and buy an GS/IS/SC for the cheap and GTE/V160, single, and go from there.... If I wanted an LS_, I would buy a Camaro/Firebird/Corvette/GTO.

3UZFTE

(in my best Lil' Jon impression....) "Ahhhh Whaaaaaat?!??!"

windex

iTrader: (1)

well I mean if you factor in the cost of a motor and all the parts as far as doing it right with high quality parts I can see a JZ SET UP costing 10k after all is said and done
as far as an LS1 goes; custom mounts, drive shaft, and nitrous kit. 5 grand.

denut-L

iTrader: (11)

I've looked into this already

Ls1 $4500 complete w/6sp tranny low mileage one
Custom motor/tranny mounts $900
Custom driveshaft adapter $300
Custom/oil pan $250 plus shipping
Custom exhaust to fit ls_motors exhaust manifolds $140
All the other misc/parts, $unknown depending where you can get them from
Install labor if you can't do it yourself $2500

All this is already=$8590 and that's not even including the parts to convert your auto to manual. Making your ac work with the ls_ motor if you want ac, making your speedo gauge work with t56 tranny, ect ect. Sounds like alot of money for 300whp/300wtq. the only thing positive out of this swap is you'll have alot more options in modification to the ls_ motor and cost will also be alot less.

Also to hear that ls_ motor fire up with cams...I just nutted in my pants!!!

LOL and i'm still upsetNice numbers Justin, on the vette. Got videos? Didn't know you were going to boost for boobies. How was the turnout?
Like i once told my co-worker, putting a ls_ motor in my car i can have the best of both worlds. Lexus luxury and american v8 POWA!!!!

3UZFTE

Haha, yeah you pretty much summed it up! You know me, I do have a video of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ1lds7BLyk they gave me a little **** for hitting the barely hitting the 200hp mark, but she did it. The turnout was pretty sweet actually, the rain made it a little slow and what not, but once the sun cam out, people showed.. at least 100 people by noon or so. I was there to watch the first dyno at 10, and stayed until about 4:30 until they started dynoing Subaru Legacys, I'd seen enough WRXs, STis, Evos, K/H/B/D-series motors. Seriously though, how many stock cars does he need to dyno!?! I couldn't tell you how many people were like "stock, with tune...", so basically 10+ hp than Subaru said it had when it left the factory, that or whatever you friend who has the same exact car with the same exact motor, you guys probably make the same exact power.. There were a total of 3 V8s, the rest were 4 cylinders, a lot of people showed up to look as well as be seen. I think the highest HP was 596hp/489tq on a B-18 head, dart block, and 30psi on a monsterous turbo, he didn't make boost until 4k, but when he did, he did!

windex

iTrader: (1)

I dont know where you are looking for LS1's but you can get them for 3500 complete if you shop around. My really good friend is a sand rail fabricator so you can scratch that 900 for motor mounts. If you get a GTO oil pan and can cut and weld you are set thats another 250 off the price. Also if you are slightly mechanically inclined with a couple buddies you can get rid of that 2500 for install.
Bringing the total you gave to $3940 minus the little misc parts you were talking about.

denut-L

iTrader: (11)

$3500 really! NOw that's a good deal for a low mileage one,I would like to where you're looking for it so i can find one for myself.That's good for you that you can do this all by yourself. Cause some people can't and would like to know what it would cost around if you needed someone to do it for you, plus parts.

Damn! your vette sounds pretty nice,didn't get to here you rip it last time. I'm pretty sure if you tuned it the numbers should be pretty good. It looked nice on the dyno and i like your comments. "Let's see them on the HWY"...lol

3UZFTE

Thanks man, yeah I got tired of people either not having cars that were dyno'd or having them dyno some SRT4 that is like a light switch, flick it and it will make power, otherwise it's a neon.. 400hp and your still gay, HAHA. I was going to try to follow you onto 169, but you went north and I was going south.

Anyways as far as the LS_ goes... Yes, you can buy a low mileage LS1 motor for around $2,000, or you can find a higher mileage one with the tranny for about $2,500. But the LS1 is almost 14 years old now, even the newest production LS1 was in the 04' vette, which was around 7 years ago. My thinking is that if you were going to go through all the trouble to do the swap, but not go LS2/3/7/X because all those motors start at 400hp. You can buy a create LS3 that comes with 430hp and 423tq, and that's not after cam, intake, exhaust, etc.... from summit it is close to $9,000 for a 0 mile LS3 crate, and that's without a transmission. I understand no one would need to buy that new of motor to achieve that, but that's just to show you a starting point with the LS_ motor. Hell if you are really skeptical, cruise over to LS1tech.com, and you will see the potential.
As far as the mounts, I'm sure it's safe to say that most of us don't know people that will spend a total of 3-5 hours + materials to fabricate and be willing to modify the existing mounts to make that happen. So with that being said, lets try to focus on what the mount kit might cost to have someone make them, and I think it could be done far cheaper than $1,000 that DGR is charging. Not that it isn't a very good kit, and worth that for their R&D, I just don't have that kind of money. I have a tig welder, access to a sheetmetal shop, and cheap steel so... Like you I can create my own for a lot cheaper, but lets focus on what a general kit might cost. Right now the DGR kit is around $1,000.
For the oil pan I thought $250 might be a little low. There's only one CTS-V oil pan on eBay and it's going for $275, and granted you might have access to something cheaper, but everyone doesn't. So for $250, plus the modifying you need to do to the pan, I would fit it hard to believe someone would do it for free, I sure wouldn't. There's probably a good 2-3 of cutting/welding in that. There are a couple of LS_ swap oil pans on the market, but they are close to $400. Again, I can do all my own work, I am just trying to give a general number for the swap, and $250 might be a little low. Last time I checked, they weren't giving away GTO oil pans.
And as far as the install, yeah we can agree that the number will range from "free" to "expensive", the number's are all going to vary some bit.
I would go 1 of 2 ways, I would go dirt cheap and buy a cheap 5.3 block, make a poor man's LS motor. Another possibility in their route is the 6.0 iron block, the LQ4. The other route would be to buy a used LS3, although you pay a little more money, the amount of power you start with is noticeable. And likely it would take the difference you would save from the motors, you would likely put back in to create that power...

P.S. if you are a real baller you either buy an LS9, LSA, or LT5 motors...