Beware of TorqueMaster Spark Plugs!!!
07-04-02, 06:08 PM
#31
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Whitels,
When I spoke to Gene over the phone he said he would have a new set of iridiums and a new set of TM's just to level off the playing field. Don't know if he did this when he ran the dyno runs.
The second question...here's an answer for you. The TM's were originally designed when the manufacturers (AC Delco, Champion, NGK, etc) were having people replace their plugs every 30k miles at maximum. In reality they would erode to a point that they would require replacement at 10k miles. This is with the points type ignition, which throws off much more current than our coil packs. Back then the TM plugs were hauling over 200k miles. With the newer ignition systems (and a bit weaker) the plugs will last for well over 200k. If the proportions hold true, they should last...get this...2 million miles. Normal use of course.
Iridium just came about as a hype plug. Notice that Iridium advertisements WON'T compare against the TM plug. They know better than to do that. Longevity, hp or torque gains...the iridiums would lose out. The basic design (L shape electrode) is the same as almost any other plug. If they can hype it enough in Car Import or other mags, then they can sell it. BUT, they won't compare against something better than them.
Percy
When I spoke to Gene over the phone he said he would have a new set of iridiums and a new set of TM's just to level off the playing field. Don't know if he did this when he ran the dyno runs.
The second question...here's an answer for you. The TM's were originally designed when the manufacturers (AC Delco, Champion, NGK, etc) were having people replace their plugs every 30k miles at maximum. In reality they would erode to a point that they would require replacement at 10k miles. This is with the points type ignition, which throws off much more current than our coil packs. Back then the TM plugs were hauling over 200k miles. With the newer ignition systems (and a bit weaker) the plugs will last for well over 200k. If the proportions hold true, they should last...get this...2 million miles. Normal use of course.
Iridium just came about as a hype plug. Notice that Iridium advertisements WON'T compare against the TM plug. They know better than to do that. Longevity, hp or torque gains...the iridiums would lose out. The basic design (L shape electrode) is the same as almost any other plug. If they can hype it enough in Car Import or other mags, then they can sell it. BUT, they won't compare against something better than them.
Percy
07-04-02, 06:48 PM
#32
Lexus Test Driver
Almost!
White - Because I had to make alternate plans for the dyno ( remember that the wife had MY GS in Tennessee!
), I used a friend's GS4 on which we had done the 60k maintenance ( including new Iridiums ) the weekend prior. Now I'm sure that there R those of ya that will cry "Foul" because I tested new TM's against a set of iridiums with an astronomical 155 miles on them
but they looked brand new when Tom & I removed them for replacement with the TM's & that's good enough for me!! Also, Suzi @ TM told me that the TM's were designed to be self-cleaning & would continue to work as new for well into 200k miles.
About the RX-7 problems with TM's - I had a 13-B powered rotary on which I had installed a CarTech intercooled turbo kit ( roughly 300 flywheel HP ). I used NGK's but that's not where I'm going with this. The rotary ran so hot after some hard runs that the exhaust pipe actually melted some fuse holders within the interior of the car!!:eek: I had installed a decent tri-amped system ( hey, I AM an AUDIO Moderator!!
) in the 2 storage pockets behind the seats of the 1985 models & the exhaust ran directly below the passenger pocket. I ended up lining the pocket with Kay-O wool ( good for about 800 degrees Farenheit ).:eek: I would imagine that thermal degradation had alot to do with the metal fatigue of the plugs as well as possible inferior welding. To that extent, I have installed those same TM's I removed from Loyd's GS ( & NOT without a fight!!
:eek: ) in my GS as I'm confident in what Percy & others have said about the plugs. Also, I have the newer "Star" plugs which don't appear to be welded. I'll try to get back to the BR dyno ( I kept the old Iridiums from my GS ) & maybe play again BUT I'm making no promises!!
), I used a friend's GS4 on which we had done the 60k maintenance ( including new Iridiums ) the weekend prior. Now I'm sure that there R those of ya that will cry "Foul" because I tested new TM's against a set of iridiums with an astronomical 155 miles on them but they looked brand new when Tom & I removed them for replacement with the TM's & that's good enough for me!! Also, Suzi @ TM told me that the TM's were designed to be self-cleaning & would continue to work as new for well into 200k miles. About the RX-7 problems with TM's - I had a 13-B powered rotary on which I had installed a CarTech intercooled turbo kit ( roughly 300 flywheel HP ). I used NGK's but that's not where I'm going with this. The rotary ran so hot after some hard runs that the exhaust pipe actually melted some fuse holders within the interior of the car!!:eek: I had installed a decent tri-amped system ( hey, I AM an AUDIO Moderator!!
) in the 2 storage pockets behind the seats of the 1985 models & the exhaust ran directly below the passenger pocket. I ended up lining the pocket with Kay-O wool ( good for about 800 degrees Farenheit ).:eek: I would imagine that thermal degradation had alot to do with the metal fatigue of the plugs as well as possible inferior welding. To that extent, I have installed those same TM's I removed from Loyd's GS ( & NOT without a fight!! :eek: ) in my GS as I'm confident in what Percy & others have said about the plugs. Also, I have the newer "Star" plugs which don't appear to be welded. I'll try to get back to the BR dyno ( I kept the old Iridiums from my GS ) & maybe play again BUT I'm making no promises!!
Last edited by Mean Gene; 07-04-02 at 06:51 PM.
07-04-02, 10:39 PM
#33
Lexus Test Driver
155 miles on the tested iridiums is also good as new to me- no problem there.
Mean Gene, Fever, & Percy - thanks for bearing with me.
Given all the facts that we talked about, I think I'm convinced TM is a serious plug to consider.
Ahhh...that's why I like this board
Mean Gene, Fever, & Percy - thanks for bearing with me.
Given all the facts that we talked about, I think I'm convinced TM is a serious plug to consider.
Ahhh...that's why I like this board
07-05-02, 12:39 AM
#35
Ok, here are some cleaner pics. they are too big to attach so I put em up on my server. I'll post 2 since I don't know how much bandwidth I have left for this month. You can access the rest at http://www.lexusport.com/plugs/tm/##.jpg where ## is 01-05 (1 & 4 pictured)
Nick
Nick
07-05-02, 05:34 PM
#37
Ok, they were installed today. The plugs that I had before (which were supposed to be changed at 60k) were the ORIGINAL plugs! That's right, the place that originally did the 60k charged me for the work and parts but didn't do jack ****! If I had a receipt and remembered where I went I would raise hell!
Anyways, the old plugs had 90k on them but weren't too bad. Yeah, they were a little cruddy and the tips were not in great condition. BTW, I also had my 90k service done at the same time. The TM plugs are bloody fantastic. The car gets up in speed much quicker than before (yet the car feels slower because the torque converter isn't as jerky as before ... SMOOTH!) The increased power is prevalent throughout the powerband, more so in the top end. The speedometer moves quicker through the mph.
Now I know some people are going to say that maybe even Densos would feel the same and I agree! I had 90k on original spark plugs. But my SC drives faster than another 95 I test drove that had it's 60k done by the dealership 3 weeks ago. Especially when you consider the Dyno graphs posted earlier, I really like these plugs. If I had to do it over again would I buy the same plugs? Yes I would. If I can get on a Dyno machine before I do exhaust I'll post my before hp and after tune up hp. I had the before dyno done 4 months ago.
RacingAristo, pm or email me (nick@lexusport.com, email is finally back up after a week of being down). I don't want it to seem like I'm whoring myself out by talking about my company and products on the CL boards (like a few others).
Anyways, the old plugs had 90k on them but weren't too bad. Yeah, they were a little cruddy and the tips were not in great condition. BTW, I also had my 90k service done at the same time. The TM plugs are bloody fantastic. The car gets up in speed much quicker than before (yet the car feels slower because the torque converter isn't as jerky as before ... SMOOTH!) The increased power is prevalent throughout the powerband, more so in the top end. The speedometer moves quicker through the mph.
Now I know some people are going to say that maybe even Densos would feel the same and I agree! I had 90k on original spark plugs. But my SC drives faster than another 95 I test drove that had it's 60k done by the dealership 3 weeks ago. Especially when you consider the Dyno graphs posted earlier, I really like these plugs. If I had to do it over again would I buy the same plugs? Yes I would. If I can get on a Dyno machine before I do exhaust I'll post my before hp and after tune up hp. I had the before dyno done 4 months ago.
RacingAristo, pm or email me (nick@lexusport.com, email is finally back up after a week of being down). I don't want it to seem like I'm whoring myself out by talking about my company and products on the CL boards (like a few others).
Last edited by hellasboy; 07-05-02 at 05:37 PM.
11-10-03, 05:16 AM
#40
Lexus Test Driver
DOH!!
Sorry to all who has been on this POST! I am in the middle of getting my car setup for the 60K Service and need some information and advice on whether or not to change my sparkplugs during this service. I have a feeling that CL's have mixed reviews on this issue, based on personal preference and experience.... So this subject gets more confused to me. Simple question and look for simple answer:
- I'm lazy and don't want to worry about sparkplugs for awhile.... What kind do you recommend? Please help me with details as in: Brand, Kind, gap-setting, cost, where to shop?
and I THANK YOU ALL~ 
I am in the middle of getting my car setup for the 60K Service and need some information and advice on whether or not to change my sparkplugs during this service. I have a feeling that CL's have mixed reviews on this issue, based on personal preference and experience.... So this subject gets more confused to me. Simple question and look for simple answer:- I'm lazy and don't want to worry about sparkplugs for awhile.... What kind do you recommend? Please help me with details as in: Brand, Kind, gap-setting, cost, where to shop?
and I THANK YOU ALL~
11-10-03, 08:42 AM
#42
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
I had my Torquemasters in for about 20K and had absolutely no issues. I'm not a believer in 100,000 mile plugs and change mine regardless of manufacturer recommendations about every 25K for better performance from my car. Since i was taking my GS in for a major service before our Tail of the Dragon drive, I went ahead and had them swapped out at that time. I couldn't readily put my hands on a new set of TM's, so I used a set of Irridiums for my new plugs.
Examination of the TM plugs showed very little wear and no issues with structure of the plug. Some discoloration, but not anything out of the ordinary for a 20K plug.
'Seat of the pants' I felt like performance went down with the new Irridium plugs in vs the old Torquemasters. I also went to a dyno with the new plugs and my HP and TQ were down, although I didn't associate that with the difference in plugs until just now. Hmmmm.
Bottom line, I'd personally still recommend them and if I can get a set for my next plug change I'll use them again.
Examination of the TM plugs showed very little wear and no issues with structure of the plug. Some discoloration, but not anything out of the ordinary for a 20K plug.
'Seat of the pants' I felt like performance went down with the new Irridium plugs in vs the old Torquemasters. I also went to a dyno with the new plugs and my HP and TQ were down, although I didn't associate that with the difference in plugs until just now. Hmmmm.
Bottom line, I'd personally still recommend them and if I can get a set for my next plug change I'll use them again.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 11-10-03 at 08:43 AM.
11-10-03, 10:53 AM
#45
Lexus Test Driver
DaveGS4, Neo, and LXOGOOD uniformly vouched in favor of TM's longevity. I've driven Neo's car before and thought it was a GS400 based on it's strong torque until he said that it was a GS3. I wasn't paying attention to the emblem.
Now the big question, where do you get a set of new TMs?
It seems like a good idea to stock up on these...
Now the big question, where do you get a set of new TMs?
It seems like a good idea to stock up on these...