Synthetic Oil - Change Interval
09-13-11, 10:25 AM
#91
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Kinda funny:, A few 'official' links to Extended and Long-Interval Oil Changes:
Mobil One Extended - Guaranteed to 15,000mi http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/...aqs.aspx#FAQs4
Royal Purple - 12,000mi - http://royalpurple.com/faqs-motor-oil.html
Amsoil Study - 25,000mi - http://www.synthetic-motor-oil-chang...-of-consumers/
Another Amsoil Product - 35,000mi - http://www.alternative-energy-resour...il_change.html
State of California - Trucks, Busses etc - 50,000mi - On a Diesel! http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDev...il-Filters.cfm
There is plenty more also...the above link and studies also rely on Blackstone Oil Analysises to determine the oil intervals recommended didnt have adverse impacts on the Oil's ability to lubricate, clean, etc...they are probably conservative numbers as well, as they surely wouldnt recommend intervals at the very limit the oil is no longer suitable....
Food for thought.
Mobil One Extended - Guaranteed to 15,000mi http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/...aqs.aspx#FAQs4
Royal Purple - 12,000mi - http://royalpurple.com/faqs-motor-oil.html
Amsoil Study - 25,000mi - http://www.synthetic-motor-oil-chang...-of-consumers/
Another Amsoil Product - 35,000mi - http://www.alternative-energy-resour...il_change.html
State of California - Trucks, Busses etc - 50,000mi - On a Diesel! http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDev...il-Filters.cfm
There is plenty more also...the above link and studies also rely on Blackstone Oil Analysises to determine the oil intervals recommended didnt have adverse impacts on the Oil's ability to lubricate, clean, etc...they are probably conservative numbers as well, as they surely wouldnt recommend intervals at the very limit the oil is no longer suitable....
Food for thought.
09-13-11, 10:32 AM
#92
OK Gotchya, so Blackstone doesnt recommend going past 8KM (5K Mi).
Now, I can completely understand and respect their recommendation to you, first because the 'traditional' industry, except a few new oil mfgr's has Never recommended extended oil changes and Second, more than likely Blackstone doesnt want to be responsible or Liable for recommending to ANYONE that they Dont change their Oil longer than the Vehicle mfgr's recommended interval.
Its a Liability thing.
As for me and my car. Its got over 250K miles on it...It doesnt burn more than 1/2 qt per 3000 miles (which is well within Lexus range of 0.5 to 1 qt per 5,000 miles). It doesnt smoke and passes all emissions tests, it still drives 120mph with ease, and its clean as a whistle inside.
So...my stance remains the same: For WHAT REASON should I start changing my oil every 5000mi or so, when Ive been doing it every 50,000 with only filters and 1 additional qt every 5,000 ?
I have about 2500 miles on my latest oil change. I will get an analysis done when I go to replace the filter in another 2500 miles. But even if the analysis shows the oil is "unfit" for lubricating an engine, and I drive yet another 50,000 miles to 300,000 total miles...will that analysis really mean anything except that "by the numbers the oil isnt good", when real-life results show its perfectly fine...
This is a classic example of "Text Book" vs "Experience" (AKA Real World Results) knowledge.
Now, I can completely understand and respect their recommendation to you, first because the 'traditional' industry, except a few new oil mfgr's has Never recommended extended oil changes and Second, more than likely Blackstone doesnt want to be responsible or Liable for recommending to ANYONE that they Dont change their Oil longer than the Vehicle mfgr's recommended interval.
Its a Liability thing.
As for me and my car. Its got over 250K miles on it...It doesnt burn more than 1/2 qt per 3000 miles (which is well within Lexus range of 0.5 to 1 qt per 5,000 miles). It doesnt smoke and passes all emissions tests, it still drives 120mph with ease, and its clean as a whistle inside.
So...my stance remains the same: For WHAT REASON should I start changing my oil every 5000mi or so, when Ive been doing it every 50,000 with only filters and 1 additional qt every 5,000 ?
I have about 2500 miles on my latest oil change. I will get an analysis done when I go to replace the filter in another 2500 miles. But even if the analysis shows the oil is "unfit" for lubricating an engine, and I drive yet another 50,000 miles to 300,000 total miles...will that analysis really mean anything except that "by the numbers the oil isnt good", when real-life results show its perfectly fine...
This is a classic example of "Text Book" vs "Experience" (AKA Real World Results) knowledge.
secondly they a independant company they not liable for ANYTHING they are a site for people who want to stretch their oil changes this is what they do. they dont lie to people, they gave me a printout when i sent it in and when i send the 2nd one in i will get another letter back with my next printout.
u say if the analysis shows its bad that its not? guess what if the analysis shows its bad regardless if your car seems to be running fine if the oil has broken down regardless of what YOU THINK, actual laboratory tests confirm its not THEN ITS BAD. so who would i believe, you....or a independent laboratory. regardless of what u do i would believe the laboratory IF they said your oil was bad
One more thing Sak...
Why would I START a thread about something I claim to do, but dont do?
Please take a minute to look at my other posts and other threads Ive started. I provide detailed pictures, even with graphics and labels. Detailed instructions on how to repair/diagnose several difficult issues.
Inferring I dont actually drain my Oil every 50,000 miles insinuates that I just decided to start a thread and do 20+ posts about it as a waste of my time...makes no sense does it?
Plus, I think you may not be factoring in that every 5,000 miles my engine gets a fresh Qt to 1.5 Qts of Oil due to the loss of oil in 5000 miles od driving as well as the loss from the Filter change.
Ive helped dozens of people on this site with the Limp Mode issues, Throttle Body repairs, OCV Valve repairs, Tranny issues, Master Cylinder, etc etc...I have no desire to start BS threads.
My First Post states that I knew this was going to be controversial. And I also NEVER recommended anyone else do what I do...this thread was started to see if OTHERS have any similar experiences.
Why would I START a thread about something I claim to do, but dont do?
Please take a minute to look at my other posts and other threads Ive started. I provide detailed pictures, even with graphics and labels. Detailed instructions on how to repair/diagnose several difficult issues.
Inferring I dont actually drain my Oil every 50,000 miles insinuates that I just decided to start a thread and do 20+ posts about it as a waste of my time...makes no sense does it?
Plus, I think you may not be factoring in that every 5,000 miles my engine gets a fresh Qt to 1.5 Qts of Oil due to the loss of oil in 5000 miles od driving as well as the loss from the Filter change.
Ive helped dozens of people on this site with the Limp Mode issues, Throttle Body repairs, OCV Valve repairs, Tranny issues, Master Cylinder, etc etc...I have no desire to start BS threads.
My First Post states that I knew this was going to be controversial. And I also NEVER recommended anyone else do what I do...this thread was started to see if OTHERS have any similar experiences.
NOT ONCE HAVE I EVER SAID YOU DIDNT DO THIS. im not doubting u do this,i NEVER have been. all i have EVER asked is if you have ever done a oil analysis
Last edited by sakataj; 09-13-11 at 10:37 AM.
09-13-11, 02:32 PM
#93
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Ok, Okay :-) Now I gotchya...I think there was just some misunderstanding going on...let me try to bring my point a little better into focus, not trying to argue, just defending my position, like any honest person would:
A) My engine does have ~251K miles on it now. I put approx 210,000 miles on it myself since August 2001.
B) I changed my Oil immediately when I bought the car, and again ~5,000 miles later, both times with Valvoline 100% Synthetic (Ive since used MOBILE One when its been priced good, never tried Amsoil or Royal Purple, never used generics)
C) I Then changed the Oil at 75,000 and then 100,000 with filters every 5000-6000 miles and I then drained/changed the oil every 50,000 miles, keeping the 5K filter changes. Its been easy to track cuz I did so at 50,000 miles, 75,000, then 100K, 150K, 200K and again a few months ago when I did the OCV valve work at ~248K (so I was a little shy of 50K) 3 yrs ago, at about 220K miles I changed my Oil Pan Gasket, Rear Main seal, front main seal, and being amazed at how clean the inside of the oil pan, the crank, main rods, etc were. I really expected at least some sludge to have built up, and there was absolutely none to be found.
D) I am not saying Oil analysis' are incorrect. Nor am I saying Oil lasts forever. Nor am I ridiculing people who change at 3K or 5K. This is simply a story of my experiences, now with multiple vehicles, of very different engine designs, using VERY extended oil drain intervals. I am actually curious what a real analysis would show, I wish I had not contaminated my last drain...I guess I could have it analyzed and juts tell them there is a little tranny and brake fluid mixed in, but I still think I will get skewed results...any ideas?
E) My only contention with an oil analysis is this: If an oil analysis does come back "bad"...what does that analysis really tell me when my engine still runs strong, doesnt burn oil, doesnt smoke, the emissions are well within the strict DEQ limits tested each year?
It may mean that the 2JZGE engine is just a beast, a "perfectly" designed engine capable of taking a beating and still running great. But then that also means the 2.8L 1988 Chevy V-6 is too (incidently GM Stopped making that engine).
Maybe it means the analysis numbers are very conservative and that synthetic oil is still "good" past their numbers?
Or Maybe an oil analysis will come back good...? I Wont know until I put more than 5K miles on this latest oil change. It will be interesting, but to do an oil analysis before I even hit 5K miles would not really tell me anything.
At 250K+ miles on the original engine, one thing is certain, its been well used and still providing driving pleasure :-)
A) My engine does have ~251K miles on it now. I put approx 210,000 miles on it myself since August 2001.
B) I changed my Oil immediately when I bought the car, and again ~5,000 miles later, both times with Valvoline 100% Synthetic (Ive since used MOBILE One when its been priced good, never tried Amsoil or Royal Purple, never used generics)
C) I Then changed the Oil at 75,000 and then 100,000 with filters every 5000-6000 miles and I then drained/changed the oil every 50,000 miles, keeping the 5K filter changes. Its been easy to track cuz I did so at 50,000 miles, 75,000, then 100K, 150K, 200K and again a few months ago when I did the OCV valve work at ~248K (so I was a little shy of 50K) 3 yrs ago, at about 220K miles I changed my Oil Pan Gasket, Rear Main seal, front main seal, and being amazed at how clean the inside of the oil pan, the crank, main rods, etc were. I really expected at least some sludge to have built up, and there was absolutely none to be found.
D) I am not saying Oil analysis' are incorrect. Nor am I saying Oil lasts forever. Nor am I ridiculing people who change at 3K or 5K. This is simply a story of my experiences, now with multiple vehicles, of very different engine designs, using VERY extended oil drain intervals. I am actually curious what a real analysis would show, I wish I had not contaminated my last drain...I guess I could have it analyzed and juts tell them there is a little tranny and brake fluid mixed in, but I still think I will get skewed results...any ideas?
E) My only contention with an oil analysis is this: If an oil analysis does come back "bad"...what does that analysis really tell me when my engine still runs strong, doesnt burn oil, doesnt smoke, the emissions are well within the strict DEQ limits tested each year?
It may mean that the 2JZGE engine is just a beast, a "perfectly" designed engine capable of taking a beating and still running great. But then that also means the 2.8L 1988 Chevy V-6 is too (incidently GM Stopped making that engine).
Maybe it means the analysis numbers are very conservative and that synthetic oil is still "good" past their numbers?
Or Maybe an oil analysis will come back good...? I Wont know until I put more than 5K miles on this latest oil change. It will be interesting, but to do an oil analysis before I even hit 5K miles would not really tell me anything.
At 250K+ miles on the original engine, one thing is certain, its been well used and still providing driving pleasure :-)
Last edited by az-dave; 09-13-11 at 02:40 PM.
09-15-11, 01:23 PM
#95
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Yeah, I will get an analysis done the I do my next filter change. I need to get some "good" oil that isnt inside the filter though, since that oil will contain more contaminants that the oil the the Pan.
I barely drive the car, so it takes some time now, living 1.5 miles from work is nice :-)
Maybe I will just drain an extra half qt from the pan.
I really am interested to see how bad or good my oil is. I really wished the oil I drained a few months ago wasnt contaminated with other stuff...Im still half tempted to send it in.
I barely drive the car, so it takes some time now, living 1.5 miles from work is nice :-)
Maybe I will just drain an extra half qt from the pan.
I really am interested to see how bad or good my oil is. I really wished the oil I drained a few months ago wasnt contaminated with other stuff...Im still half tempted to send it in.
10-29-11, 07:30 AM
#96
A little different scenario than Dave's Hi-mileage car but I decided to changed my Oil at 2875 miles which I usually do at 5K. I''ve been using Mobil 1 since 996 miles on my GS400. The reason for the change (as already discussed with Dave) is that its been 4.5 years since my last oil change. Yes 4.5 years! I wanted to see for myself if OIL really does hold up or not as the Myths say to changed your oil every 6 months or 1 year max.. ----(NO OIL WAS ADDED and NO FILTER change in the 2875 miles I drove) ----
Well, I went 4.5 years and the oil HELD UP and still had plenty of life (additives) left per the OIL ANALYSIS done by BLACKSTONE LABS.
I will POST my Results in another thread. So The myth is busted about changing your oil every 6 month to 1 year.. As for my case, It took me 4.5 years to drive 2875 miles on my GS400 and the oil was fine.. The Lab suggested to try 5 years next interval..
My conclusion: from now on I will base my OIl changes upon mileage and not time.. It is proven from my OIL analysis that OIL DOES NOT GO BAD. I had changed my oil at 5K or before that so I have no worries, changing oil based on time is a waste of money and resources including wasting oil..
My best recommendation to myself, If I drive my car hard, I'll change it at 3500 or 5000 if I drive normal at however long it takes me to get to those miles (5 year max for now) is my conclusion..
Believe it or not, I have an OIL Report..!
Thanks Dave-AZ for this thread..
Well, I went 4.5 years and the oil HELD UP and still had plenty of life (additives) left per the OIL ANALYSIS done by BLACKSTONE LABS.
I will POST my Results in another thread. So The myth is busted about changing your oil every 6 month to 1 year.. As for my case, It took me 4.5 years to drive 2875 miles on my GS400 and the oil was fine.. The Lab suggested to try 5 years next interval..
My conclusion: from now on I will base my OIl changes upon mileage and not time.. It is proven from my OIL analysis that OIL DOES NOT GO BAD. I had changed my oil at 5K or before that so I have no worries, changing oil based on time is a waste of money and resources including wasting oil..
My best recommendation to myself, If I drive my car hard, I'll change it at 3500 or 5000 if I drive normal at however long it takes me to get to those miles (5 year max for now) is my conclusion..
Believe it or not, I have an OIL Report..!
Thanks Dave-AZ for this thread..
10-31-11, 09:37 AM
#97
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
1QWKGS4 - Thats pretty awesome, and verifies in real-world analysis what Ive researched concerning oil's 'shelf-life'. This is really good info to have, and can now help put to rest the whole idea that oil somehow goes thru a chemical process while sitting.
My bet is that good oil will last almost indefinitely unless additional contaminants are introduced while sitting, such as a bad head gasket seal allowing small amounts of coolant.
Im still waiting to do my oil change so I can get my oil analyzed. How much oil is required to send to the analyst?
My bet is that good oil will last almost indefinitely unless additional contaminants are introduced while sitting, such as a bad head gasket seal allowing small amounts of coolant.
Im still waiting to do my oil change so I can get my oil analyzed. How much oil is required to send to the analyst?
10-31-11, 02:18 PM
#98
1QWKGS4 - Thats pretty awesome, and verifies in real-world analysis what Ive researched concerning oil's 'shelf-life'. This is really good info to have, and can now help put to rest the whole idea that oil somehow goes thru a chemical process while sitting.
My bet is that good oil will last almost indefinitely unless additional contaminants are introduced while sitting, such as a bad head gasket seal allowing small amounts of coolant.
Im still waiting to do my oil change so I can get my oil analyzed. How much oil is required to send to the analyst?
My bet is that good oil will last almost indefinitely unless additional contaminants are introduced while sitting, such as a bad head gasket seal allowing small amounts of coolant.
Im still waiting to do my oil change so I can get my oil analyzed. How much oil is required to send to the analyst?
10-31-11, 04:50 PM
#99
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Sounds good, I will get them to send me kit, and when I replace my oil filter I will send them some back. Im still doing the extended oil change interval, but takes so long for me to put on miles now, I drive her only 500 miles or so per month. About 1/5th what I did before moving last year.
Im not so sure I can keep putting as many miles on my oil now that Im not driving long distances that are mostly highway. On a typical day I drive 1.5 miles to work in the morning, 1 mile to the gym at lunch, 1m back to work, and 1.5m back home. For a total of 5 miles. Then a few times a week I drive 10-15 miles to a store or whatever.
Except for the longer trips my engine doesnt get up to temp, so its probably taking on more exhaust gas, fuel blow-by etc.
In any event it will be interesting to see an analysis after 5K miles. Just wish I had some uncontaminated old oil to send in...I wonder if the tranny fluid and brake fluid settled in that Jug...may be worth it just to see what Blackstone comes up with from that old batch...???
Im not so sure I can keep putting as many miles on my oil now that Im not driving long distances that are mostly highway. On a typical day I drive 1.5 miles to work in the morning, 1 mile to the gym at lunch, 1m back to work, and 1.5m back home. For a total of 5 miles. Then a few times a week I drive 10-15 miles to a store or whatever.
Except for the longer trips my engine doesnt get up to temp, so its probably taking on more exhaust gas, fuel blow-by etc.
In any event it will be interesting to see an analysis after 5K miles. Just wish I had some uncontaminated old oil to send in...I wonder if the tranny fluid and brake fluid settled in that Jug...may be worth it just to see what Blackstone comes up with from that old batch...???
03-22-12, 11:23 AM
#100
Pole Position
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All i can say is wow!
If it is in fact true (not calling op a liar just a hard pill to swallow) than its pretty incredible. I have lots of experience with that beretta 2.8-3.1L. Enough to know if you got over 170k out of it you were definitely doing something right. I blew 2 of the 3.1's up around 100k with meticulous excessive maintenance 2.5-3k oil changes. I have rarely seen one with over 150k that didn't run like a pig on life support so he must know something we don't.
If it is in fact true (not calling op a liar just a hard pill to swallow) than its pretty incredible. I have lots of experience with that beretta 2.8-3.1L. Enough to know if you got over 170k out of it you were definitely doing something right. I blew 2 of the 3.1's up around 100k with meticulous excessive maintenance 2.5-3k oil changes. I have rarely seen one with over 150k that didn't run like a pig on life support so he must know something we don't.
03-23-12, 10:01 AM
#101
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
That engine in the Beretta was bulletproof, as was the tranny. It was the manual. replaced cluthc once at around 150K . But when the AC stopped in August and the headliner fell on me when driving, I had to call it quits. LOL
As for the GS, I now have 253290 miles on it. Im waiting until I hit 10,000 miles on the current oil. I think I have almost 4K on this oil.
Once I get past 8K Im going to have the oil analyzed and post results, not because it changes anything, just to see what the analysis shows. At the rate I drive it may be another 6 months to a year, but it will be interesting nonetheless to see what an analysis shows. Even if it shows the oil is completely no-good, it will raise an interesting discussion as to how an engine can run great with 253K+ miles, not burn oil, not run hot, but be lubricated with "bad" oil. On the other hand, the analysis may show the oil is good. Coo, thing is, the place doing it wont know the history, so its a blind test.
As for the GS, I now have 253290 miles on it. Im waiting until I hit 10,000 miles on the current oil. I think I have almost 4K on this oil.
Once I get past 8K Im going to have the oil analyzed and post results, not because it changes anything, just to see what the analysis shows. At the rate I drive it may be another 6 months to a year, but it will be interesting nonetheless to see what an analysis shows. Even if it shows the oil is completely no-good, it will raise an interesting discussion as to how an engine can run great with 253K+ miles, not burn oil, not run hot, but be lubricated with "bad" oil. On the other hand, the analysis may show the oil is good. Coo, thing is, the place doing it wont know the history, so its a blind test.
All i can say is wow!
If it is in fact true (not calling op a liar just a hard pill to swallow) than its pretty incredible. I have lots of experience with that beretta 2.8-3.1L. Enough to know if you got over 170k out of it you were definitely doing something right. I blew 2 of the 3.1's up around 100k with meticulous excessive maintenance 2.5-3k oil changes. I have rarely seen one with over 150k that didn't run like a pig on life support so he must know something we don't.
If it is in fact true (not calling op a liar just a hard pill to swallow) than its pretty incredible. I have lots of experience with that beretta 2.8-3.1L. Enough to know if you got over 170k out of it you were definitely doing something right. I blew 2 of the 3.1's up around 100k with meticulous excessive maintenance 2.5-3k oil changes. I have rarely seen one with over 150k that didn't run like a pig on life support so he must know something we don't.
05-29-12, 09:32 AM
#103
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Funny someone just asked. I just did an 800 mile road trip last weekend, and a 400 mile one 2 weeks ago. One trip was up and down steep mountain roads the entire trip, got 20 mpg average. Elev change from 1,000 to 7700ft with many 6% x 5-10 mile grades, so probably 20,000ft+/- total elev up/down. Second trip to OC from Phx doing about 80-85mph average doing 90-100 a few times when I could get away with it - 23 mpg average, based on total mileage plus gallons of gas actually used.
In other words, engine still strong, AND getting very good gas mileage (this is amazing for a car with 256,000 miles on it)
Maybe time for a sample to get analyzed. I have the mileage and dates written in the car, driving my truck today. Id like to wait until 10,000 miles on the oil before getting analyzed. If I have 10K or more now I will get it done, and post results. Ive done one filter change since last oil change, and added 1-1/4 qts oil at the time.
I'm very curious to see what an analysis will show...not because it will impact my oil changes, but because if it come back as completely bad, it raises some questions as to what "bad" is...cuz if you can get 23mpg at 256,000 miles and still drive a car pretty hard...well...
then again, the analysis may come back showing the oil as good...my hunch, it wont.
Thanks for asking...after this last road trip I was meaning to post that I think its getting close to "that" time!
Aagain, even if the result show completely "bad" oil,
In other words, engine still strong, AND getting very good gas mileage (this is amazing for a car with 256,000 miles on it)
Maybe time for a sample to get analyzed. I have the mileage and dates written in the car, driving my truck today. Id like to wait until 10,000 miles on the oil before getting analyzed. If I have 10K or more now I will get it done, and post results. Ive done one filter change since last oil change, and added 1-1/4 qts oil at the time.
I'm very curious to see what an analysis will show...not because it will impact my oil changes, but because if it come back as completely bad, it raises some questions as to what "bad" is...cuz if you can get 23mpg at 256,000 miles and still drive a car pretty hard...well...
then again, the analysis may come back showing the oil as good...my hunch, it wont.
Thanks for asking...after this last road trip I was meaning to post that I think its getting close to "that" time!
Aagain, even if the result show completely "bad" oil,
05-30-12, 12:38 PM
#104
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Ok so My ODO says I have 255,490 miles as of Today. My last complete Oil change was at 147,600 last March (when I created this thread), so Ive got almost 8K on this Oil (and filter) - time to replace the filter, but not the Oil... :-)
Once I hit 10,000 miles I will get it analyzed. And again at 20,000, etc...but this will take some time as I dont drive it much.
Probably be July when I hit 10K on this oil. Patience....patience.
Once I hit 10,000 miles I will get it analyzed. And again at 20,000, etc...but this will take some time as I dont drive it much.
Probably be July when I hit 10K on this oil. Patience....patience.