Kingdavid

iTrader: (1)

Hi guys. So I'm spotting a lot of cheap, low mileage supra engines on ebay. (Yah yah I know It's ebay.) At the same time I just watched a video of an is350 with an engine swap putting out around 750hp on the dyno which is monstrous. I of cours sent him a message about the logistics, problems cost etc. and I'm waiting on a reply but in the meantime I thought I'de bring this to you guys. I always see a lot fo support for guys modding their cars (not why I'm doing this) and I figured if anywhere has a collection of people both willing and with enough expertise to help, it's here. So I'm officially asking for any guidance and/or advice, anecdotes, stories etc. on a full engine swap project. Before I launch into this I need to know what it's gonna run me abouts in the way of cash as I'm not independantly wealthy which is honestly why I'm doing this in the first place (10,000 for a TOMS supercharger? F&%# that).
Anyway, to be concise here are my goals
-400+ HP (Usable)
-300+ Lbsfttorque
-Daily-drivability
-No constant CEL's (Which means ECU swap of course)
-Similar to stock driving experience (nav, stereo, bluetooth, cruise control etc. must work like stock)
-under 18,000 dollars
If you're a neigh-sayer I understand why, but please at least take the time to post reasons why you think it can't be done, that's all I ask of you negative nancies.
Well CL, can it be done?

Kingdavid

iTrader: (1)

Yeesh, I'm an idiot. Here are the links to the things I referrenced

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmWBMKRjR74

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFo91...1&feature=fvwp

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_...506.m270.l1313

Thanks again

bfedro427

That's a pretty sick swap. Interested to see what all is involved as well...

ilv1004s

iTrader: (8)

if you search you will find your answer
there was a 2JZ powered 2IS on here before
but had alot of troubles with the electronics

Kingdavid

iTrader: (1)

Mmk ya', I read up on it. The switch is doable though. The problem comes with the ECU and its component/partner computers. But no one gave much of a good reason why it couldnt be done, just a bunch of BS really. A full drivetrain exchange would probably run me 5000 if I got both the transmission and the engine and had someone else install it. I just need to figure out how to fool the ECU into reading supra-sensors and not freaking the **** out. There's gonna be an issue with the auto transmission having only four gears and being archaic to the point where it's almost worth getting the 6 speed.
So I guess that means I need to find a better after market tranny for a 2jz-GTE. Shouldn't be too hard right? lol

armyastro

I have a swapped sc300 with a chevy powerglide 2 speed trans with a transbrake and itholds great, i launch at almost 7000rpms and leaves great. If your looking to swap a newer ISthen be prepared for electronic problems. If you want to buy a swapped car there is plenty that are done and cheaper than doing it yourself. Mine is for sale and holds great at over 1000hp. It isnt really a daily driver being it is gutted, caged, 1600cc injectors and c16 fuel isnt cheap

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

You won't be able to do this cheaply. Period. Bunch of BS? No, I don't think so. You're not going to get engine management for a V-6 to run an inline 6. You're not going to pull out half the injectors and not get faults. The knock sensors for the 2JZ are a completely different technology from the 2UR. Need I go on?

Let's add to this there is no ECM for a 2JZ-GTE that speaks CAN. CAN is critically important to running the rest of the gear on the 2IS.

If you don't care about the amenities (notice these are RACE cars where HVAC, wipers, lights, and other ancillary systems are not nearly as important) then you can do this pretty easily. If you want everything else to work, you're not going to swap out the 2UR for a 2JZ without massive headaches. There's only ONE swap known on this board with success, and it was Lance at Toyomoto in Miami who pulled it off. Sources say it took 2 years to complete and it was his personal vehicle. I believe it. I've seen plenty of RB22DETT swaps into 240SX's, and it's no picnic, but if you know what you're doing with the wiring it will work. Not true for the 2IS. The technologies are generations apart.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

And just to add to that- that one successful swap? It was on a 250 that was fairly base-model (so didn't have VDIM, memory seats, PCS, PA, or a number of other electronic options to get working).... and he still has a light on the dash for VSC not working (which won't be fixed).

On top of that the guy who did it, who is very very competent, had several hundred hours of labor to get it that far.

No way in hell you're getting 200+ hours of labor out of a really competent engine swap guy for $5000 (let alone the parts costs). That's 10-20k in just labor from anyone worth paying to do it.


Or, you just just buy an IS-F rather than the 350. Which would pretty much give you everything you want (for the 400 hp, not 750 obviously) for a similar or lower amount of extra money and massively less effort.


Or if you want a much cheaper Lexus sedan with a GTE swap get yourself a nice first-gen GS300. It's quite easy to drop an aristo powertrain in, you can certainly do the entire project (including the donor car) for 10k or less, and it'll run perfectly with no dash lights and put down 400 hp (or more with relatively small investment) all day long. Even better you can get an OBD-1 one so you won't need to worry about emissions/inspection in many states (including your own), which a 2JZ swapped 2IS would fail the hell out of.

Kingdavid

iTrader: (1)

Sry, I meant engine out-engine in, fuel lines, tranny, driveshaft, would be under five grand to do, not all the follow along work. My problem with going first gen anything is, well, I WANT the amenities that my 350 has, which of course turns out to be the biggest issue here. It, by no means would be cheap but I think I could make it a reality with the remaining 10,000 to devote straight towards putting it all together so it works. The two biggest things in my way are:
-transmission
-fooling the ECU into not freaking out.
I'm trolling for solutions to problem number one and what I'm finding isn't exactly cheap lol but I've just started. As for problem number 2? No idea how I'm going to get around it.

Mmm no I don't like either of those ideas. Remember, we had this conversation Kurtz? You say IS-F I say GT-R and no one gets anywhere.
I looked into the first gen engin swaps to and it's been done to death y'know? It's worth the effort and (possibly) the cash to try with the 350.

Kingdavid

iTrader: (1)

Mmm I already thought about that and I should be able to get around it.

Mmmk yeah That's going to be a **** festival. I'm still trying to get the tranny swap straight so I havn't even looked into that yet. I want to think there's a way to middle-man the info from the sensors to the ECM in a way that will work but, if not, then I have to try and get my froo-froo stuff (heated/power seats, VSC (not important ), cruise control. etc) to work which is gonna be a pain in the ***, probably on a scale I can't even comprehend. But it's doable, especially if I do a ton of the work myself. A lot of those systems are just power/no-power or minor variations (heated seat dials) and precious few need actual information to get them to work. All the same, id'e have to dope the ECM into reading canned data at some point which would make my car kinda semi-autistic but so long as I can manage/gauge engine health and send power to the wipers/seats/gauges/lights and feed the ECU enough info to tell me when my engines about to explode, how fast im going and what my RPMs are and let my nav know what's up I can deal.

What might happen is a 2IS shell supra with a hill-billy rigged harness to power all the luxury items. I figure I can rig my own harness for the nav system (not as hard as BestBuy makes it out to be) and just use the screen and adjust softwar to accomidate the hard buttons, not too hard, biggest issue there will be finding a way to connect the hardware and getting whatever ECM setup I choose to go with to accept that there is now a nav system and it should play nice, if I really need to do that at all.
Essentially I'd be splicing the car up into independantly functional bodies that don't see eachother. Stepping backwards technology wise but jumping forward for power.

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

Haha I know nothing about engine swaps but I think it's reasonable to say you're in trouble if you're talking to anyone at Best Buy about a job like this... I wouldn't trust them to connect my TV to my DVD player.

Good luck with everything, hope you end up doing it.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

OK, I have looked into this (I did at one point own a 350) and you'll be very sad to know the lights and the windows all run on a multiplexed network connected to what Toyota calls BEAN (Body Electrical Area Network). I first came across this researching how to turn on the fog lights without turning on the headlights. The unfortunate thing about BEAN is it also needs CAN data to work (at least from what I've been able to derive from the wiring diagrams and tech info on TIS. There is no direct connection from the switches to the relays controlling the power. It's all decided by the BEAN ECU.

I've been an electronics tech since 1979 and rebuilt my first engine in 1972, so I'm no neophyte in this arena. From everything I've been able to glean, you're looking at marrying very different approaches, and I suspect you're right - it will be some kind of really ugly stepchild interface you'll need to construct and debug to make this work.

I chose the IS-F route. GTRs don't have four doors.

rdt

Until this!
!https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...ally-done.html

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Yep saw that. I've known of Lance at Toyomoto for some years, and he's a very talented guy - one of the first to get more than 600 hp from the Supra's OEM injectors by using a rising rate FPR.

Keep in mind, this was a one off, and a base model 2IS - no nav, no Luxury or Sport package, none of the stuff that's practically impossible to get working again when you swap out the ECM. We all know the 4GR-FE ECM is not running the 2JZ, so there had to have been some pretty in-depth analysis of how to get everything running (except the stability control, which is not working according to reports from Miami.)

So anybody with a typical 350 is going to have much bigger issues to solve.