Is250 performance sugguestions
11-23-11, 09:53 PM
#17
(hint: if the answer is "the guy trying to sell it" then it's not proven in my book... especially with some of the fishy numbers the guys in south africa have posted in the past... or the chinese kit that originally claimed it'd safely run 10 psi...)
Given that even the larger displacement 350 hasn't seen proven gains in the amount you're suggesting with a supercharger I'm extremely, extremely, dubious that any 250 is with a liter less displacement (and a slightly higher CR to boot)
11-24-11, 02:15 PM
#19
nothing and be patient. i'm in the same boat, have been kicking myself for not getting the 350 when i had the chance. the only thing i can look forward to is a redesign is just around the corner, no reason to go out get a 350 now. just be glad you're not driving an IS200 like in some Asian countries.
11-25-11, 12:28 AM
#21
Proven by whom?
(hint: if the answer is "the guy trying to sell it" then it's not proven in my book... especially with some of the fishy numbers the guys in south africa have posted in the past... or the chinese kit that originally claimed it'd safely run 10 psi...)
Given that even the larger displacement 350 hasn't seen proven gains in the amount you're suggesting with a supercharger I'm extremely, extremely, dubious that any 250 is with a liter less displacement (and a slightly higher CR to boot)
(hint: if the answer is "the guy trying to sell it" then it's not proven in my book... especially with some of the fishy numbers the guys in south africa have posted in the past... or the chinese kit that originally claimed it'd safely run 10 psi...)
Given that even the larger displacement 350 hasn't seen proven gains in the amount you're suggesting with a supercharger I'm extremely, extremely, dubious that any 250 is with a liter less displacement (and a slightly higher CR to boot)
I know you have your views as far as cost vs just trading in but you're mistaken when you try to compare a car with 11.0, to a 12.0.1 CR. Engines with higher compression ratio can produce a lot more HP with less PSI. That's a clear fact. Why is it that two companies in completely different parts of the world were able to achieve similar gains? Because it's possible. You can't always knock the IS250 because of it's inferior HP.
I might not have these superchargers to prove that they can put the IS250 above an IS350 on a quarter mile or a standing mile, but I can say the possibility exists.
11-25-11, 01:03 AM
#22
As far as I know RGM Motorsport is a reliable South African tuner, and I've never ever seen any fishy numbers from them or heard anything bad about them. If I'm not mistaken they are the leading tuner in that part of the world. I don't see why they would blow up their numbers. I think you're getting them mistaken with other groups that say they'll get something done and never do it. ARMA speed clearly posts what their kit produces and at what psi, not to mention the include a kit for those who would ever consider getting knee deep in modification as far as engine management is concerned.
RGMs numbers (the track times, not the claimed hp gains) were close to a [B]stock[B] IS250... they were running at altitude though....if you search back there's been previous threads discussing why some of their numbers were questionable. But more importantly, even if they were 100% true, they claim about 248 rwhp. Which is about 15-20 less than a stock IS350. Which is the opposite of what you said was "proven"
Arma, again no evidence from any independent source... and the trick there is they always post two different kits, running significantly different amounts of boost (~7psi versus ~10)... the 7 kit is the only complete one... the 10 you need to bring your own fuel and tuning... and they're a bit vague on which one their high hp claimed numbers are for.... we know from the IS350 kits that there's no way on earth they're making >stock 350 numbers on the 7 psi kit though.
Uh... what?
The 350 is 11.8 CR, not 11. You're not gonna get a massive hp gain between 11.8 and 12.0 CR
Why is it nobody has independent #s on either kit?
Here's a quote from the Arma guys though:
Originally Posted by Arma
Installing ARMA s/c kit will add extra 35% hp to your car. Installing both this kit & ARMA full exhaust will increase 50% hp!!!
35% would be a significantly less than you need to match a stock 350. 50% and you'd manage a tie. The 35% number isn't too far off RGMs though, so we can speculate the "complete" arma kit is similar to the RGM one in gains... both less than a stock 350 though.
I kinda can actually... especially when trying to make up the difference costs 2x what just buying the faster stock car does, and we know that method works.
For folks who live someplace the 350 isn't sold these kinds of kits are the only real option, and I get that... but for folks who have the choice of either car, boosting a 250 makes zero sense.
By all means if you don't care about speed, get the 250. If you do, get the 350. It really is that simple.
It's also possible my IS350 will spontaneously transmute into gold before morning. But I'm not holding my breath, nor am I claiming it's proven it'll happen. In fact as I've shown, even the guys selling the kits don't claim what you are. The RGM kit claims less power than a stock 350, and the "complete" Arma kit does too.
11-25-11, 08:39 AM
#23
Do you have any numbers for either kit from anyone other than the people selling them.... I've not seen any... that's a problem.
RGMs numbers (the track times, not the claimed hp gains) were close to a [B]stock[B] IS250... they were running at altitude though....if you search back there's been previous threads discussing why some of their numbers were questionable. But more importantly, even if they were 100% true, they claim about 248 rwhp. Which is about 15-20 less than a stock IS350. Which is the opposite of what you said was "proven"
Arma, again no evidence from any independent source... and the trick there is they always post two different kits, running significantly different amounts of boost (~7psi versus ~10)... the 7 kit is the only complete one... the 10 you need to bring your own fuel and tuning... and they're a bit vague on which one their high hp claimed numbers are for.... we know from the IS350 kits that there's no way on earth they're making >stock 350 numbers on the 7 psi kit though.
Uh... what?
The 350 is 11.8 CR, not 11. You're not gonna get a massive hp gain between 11.8 and 12.0 CR
The gains aren't similar. Arma has claimed significantly higher #s than RGM has... but again they're vague on which kit they did it with.
Why is it nobody has independent #s on either kit?
Here's a quote from the Arma guys though:
This is regarding the 7.25 psi kit.
35% would be a significantly less than you need to match a stock 350. 50% and you'd manage a tie. The 35% number isn't too far off RGMs though, so we can speculate the "complete" arma kit is similar to the RGM one in gains... both less than a stock 350 though.
I kinda can actually... especially when trying to make up the difference costs 2x what just buying the faster stock car does, and we know that method works.
For folks who live someplace the 350 isn't sold these kinds of kits are the only real option, and I get that... but for folks who have the choice of either car, boosting a 250 makes zero sense.
By all means if you don't care about speed, get the 250. If you do, get the 350. It really is that simple.
It's also possible my IS350 will spontaneously transmute into gold before morning. But I'm not holding my breath, nor am I claiming it's proven it'll happen. In fact as I've shown, even the guys selling the kits don't claim what you are. The RGM kit claims less power than a stock 350, and the "complete" Arma kit does too.
RGMs numbers (the track times, not the claimed hp gains) were close to a [B]stock[B] IS250... they were running at altitude though....if you search back there's been previous threads discussing why some of their numbers were questionable. But more importantly, even if they were 100% true, they claim about 248 rwhp. Which is about 15-20 less than a stock IS350. Which is the opposite of what you said was "proven"
Arma, again no evidence from any independent source... and the trick there is they always post two different kits, running significantly different amounts of boost (~7psi versus ~10)... the 7 kit is the only complete one... the 10 you need to bring your own fuel and tuning... and they're a bit vague on which one their high hp claimed numbers are for.... we know from the IS350 kits that there's no way on earth they're making >stock 350 numbers on the 7 psi kit though.
Uh... what?
The 350 is 11.8 CR, not 11. You're not gonna get a massive hp gain between 11.8 and 12.0 CR
The gains aren't similar. Arma has claimed significantly higher #s than RGM has... but again they're vague on which kit they did it with.
Why is it nobody has independent #s on either kit?
Here's a quote from the Arma guys though:
This is regarding the 7.25 psi kit.
35% would be a significantly less than you need to match a stock 350. 50% and you'd manage a tie. The 35% number isn't too far off RGMs though, so we can speculate the "complete" arma kit is similar to the RGM one in gains... both less than a stock 350 though.
I kinda can actually... especially when trying to make up the difference costs 2x what just buying the faster stock car does, and we know that method works.
For folks who live someplace the 350 isn't sold these kinds of kits are the only real option, and I get that... but for folks who have the choice of either car, boosting a 250 makes zero sense.
By all means if you don't care about speed, get the 250. If you do, get the 350. It really is that simple.
It's also possible my IS350 will spontaneously transmute into gold before morning. But I'm not holding my breath, nor am I claiming it's proven it'll happen. In fact as I've shown, even the guys selling the kits don't claim what you are. The RGM kit claims less power than a stock 350, and the "complete" Arma kit does too.
RGM Motorsports did their tests on a South African test track, if I'm not mistaken it's somewhere close to 6,000ft of elevation. Anyone who knows anything about horsepower output in high elevation knows the car doesn't push out as much horsepower as being at sea level. The RGM kit makes 251whp at that elevation, consider that the base is 141whp at that elevation. So if the math is correct the car is loosing roughly around 22whp from being that high.
Maybe no one has the kit, quite simply no one wants to dish out 6-7k for one.
11-25-11, 12:40 PM
#24
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Both companies have added extra fuel to the engine with different setups.
RGM uses the DASTEK piggy to drive the extra fuel and ARMA a custom ECU to drive the extra four injectors.More fuel means more power if it goes along with the appropriate air delivery.
Considering that i squeezed out almost 75 BHP from the LMS kit without the MAPECU3 or adding more fuel their numbers make perfect sense to me.
RGM uses the DASTEK piggy to drive the extra fuel and ARMA a custom ECU to drive the extra four injectors.More fuel means more power if it goes along with the appropriate air delivery.
Considering that i squeezed out almost 75 BHP from the LMS kit without the MAPECU3 or adding more fuel their numbers make perfect sense to me.
11-25-11, 07:16 PM
#25
Both companies have added extra fuel to the engine with different setups.
RGM uses the DASTEK piggy to drive the extra fuel and ARMA a custom ECU to drive the extra four injectors.More fuel means more power if it goes along with the appropriate air delivery.
Considering that i squeezed out almost 75 BHP from the LMS kit without the MAPECU3 or adding more fuel their numbers make perfect sense to me.
RGM uses the DASTEK piggy to drive the extra fuel and ARMA a custom ECU to drive the extra four injectors.More fuel means more power if it goes along with the appropriate air delivery.
Considering that i squeezed out almost 75 BHP from the LMS kit without the MAPECU3 or adding more fuel their numbers make perfect sense to me.
BTW, last I knew your kit was running around 7 psi wasn't it? The Arma kit is only 7.25... (for the complete kit anyway)... RGM doesn't say how much boost, but given the physical limits of the engine/CR I suspect it's similar.
Again though you're exactly the kind of person (someone living in a country the 350 isn't sold) for whom a blown 250 makes sense... here in the US, not so much, given for half the price you get more power.
11-30-11, 02:26 PM
#26
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The only two superchargers worthy of mentioning are the RGM Motorsport supercharger and the ARMA Speed supercharger. Both have proven dyno hp figures that are above IS350 horsepower. If you have money to burn then by all means slap on a supercharger and set the record straight. If not then your only last alternative is to wait for the custom intake and MAPECU3 configuration one of the members in this forum is working on.
If all works out well after all is said and done you can slap on a nitrous kit running a 75 shot, in combination with your current setup and that of the custom intake and piggy back and there might be a chance that you can give an IS350 a run for it's money.
If all works out well after all is said and done you can slap on a nitrous kit running a 75 shot, in combination with your current setup and that of the custom intake and piggy back and there might be a chance that you can give an IS350 a run for it's money.
11-30-11, 08:21 PM
#28
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I never drove a 250 yet but i would venture to guess it handles better than a similarily equipped 350, am i right?
I would do some suspension mods and make the 250 a handling dream. It doesnt have to be all about straight ahead speed, you can go around people on turns, that sounds fun too.
I would do some suspension mods and make the 250 a handling dream. It doesnt have to be all about straight ahead speed, you can go around people on turns, that sounds fun too.
