Hard time choosing spark plugs
10-20-11, 06:24 AM
#17
10-20-11, 06:42 AM
#18
It's common knowledge... Here is the best explanation, taken right off NGK's website.
Distributor-less Ignition Systems are available in two types - Individual Coil Systems (also known as "coil-on-plug") and Wasted Spark Ignition.
Wasted Spark Ignition systems use one coil for every two cylinders. The coil provides the spark for one of the paired cylinders on the compression stroke and to the other on the exhaust stroke. Because the coil fires the spark plug on the exhaust stroke as well, it is appropriately named 'wasted spark ignition'. In effect, the spark plugs fire simultaneously and twice as often.
One of the two paired spark plugs is always negative polarity while the other spark plug is always positive polarity. Negative polarity means the spark plug's center electrode is negatively charged and its ground electrode is positively charged. Positive polarity is the opposite. Each time the plug fires, a rapid exchange of the protons and electrons occurs, called ionization.
The negatively charged electrons will be attracted to whichever side of the spark plug that is positively charged. The positively charged protons have much more mass than electrons, and thus cause more wear on the electrode they collide with. Hence, one plug will exhibit more wear on its ground electrode, while the other plug will experience more wear on its center electrode. If a spark plug with a precious metal on only the center electrode were to be used with this type of ignition system, there would be uneven wear on half the plugs. Although single precious metal or standard nickel plugs will still allow the engine to run, plug life will be greatly reduced.
^
This is why you need a DOUBLE Platinum. This is why the cars come with a multi-ground plug out of the factory.
Too bad they don't make Double Iridiums hey? lol
Distributor-less Ignition Systems are available in two types - Individual Coil Systems (also known as "coil-on-plug") and Wasted Spark Ignition.
Wasted Spark Ignition systems use one coil for every two cylinders. The coil provides the spark for one of the paired cylinders on the compression stroke and to the other on the exhaust stroke. Because the coil fires the spark plug on the exhaust stroke as well, it is appropriately named 'wasted spark ignition'. In effect, the spark plugs fire simultaneously and twice as often.
One of the two paired spark plugs is always negative polarity while the other spark plug is always positive polarity. Negative polarity means the spark plug's center electrode is negatively charged and its ground electrode is positively charged. Positive polarity is the opposite. Each time the plug fires, a rapid exchange of the protons and electrons occurs, called ionization.
The negatively charged electrons will be attracted to whichever side of the spark plug that is positively charged. The positively charged protons have much more mass than electrons, and thus cause more wear on the electrode they collide with. Hence, one plug will exhibit more wear on its ground electrode, while the other plug will experience more wear on its center electrode. If a spark plug with a precious metal on only the center electrode were to be used with this type of ignition system, there would be uneven wear on half the plugs. Although single precious metal or standard nickel plugs will still allow the engine to run, plug life will be greatly reduced.
^
This is why you need a DOUBLE Platinum. This is why the cars come with a multi-ground plug out of the factory.
Too bad they don't make Double Iridiums hey? lol
10-20-11, 06:53 AM
#19
^ Thank you! Makes me wonder why a company like Lexus will go with Iridium rather than double platinum since the double plats appear to have a longer life span. My Infiniti G35 had double plats, which boggles me.
So in essence, you are stating that double plats would be a better option rather than going with the iridium with plat ground strap?
So in essence, you are stating that double plats would be a better option rather than going with the iridium with plat ground strap?
10-31-11, 11:37 PM
#21
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So, you feel that I will not see any HP gain by going with iridiums but yet you then recommend a laser iridium such as the NGK IFR6T11 (4589); if anything I would rather go with the Denso iridium (IK20) which is Denso's "power spark plug" - that NGK laser iridium just looks like a standard long-life iridium.
So you feel a double platium plug is best for a performance application? If so, what about the Denso PK20TT or PK20TR?
So you feel a double platium plug is best for a performance application? If so, what about the Denso PK20TT or PK20TR?
Just food for thought. I think out the door I paid $19.37 for 8 of them. I feel bad seeing people spend so much on some of those specialty spark plugs. You know...give em a try if you don't like them, you're only out 20 bucks.
11-01-11, 11:13 AM
#22
I already got them and paid about $60 bucks...not too bad.
The thing that is driving me NUTS is that my gas mileage is EXACTLY the same!!! It tells me that my car is just a PITA and doesn't want to be efficient AND that my old(er) Torquemaster's probably weren't bad at all. Can it be that my car is still learning them? or no? Does a car even "learn" different fuel curves when a new spark plug is installed?
One thing I have on my list is to re-troque the spark plugs this weekend to make sure that none have loosened up on me. When I was changing my plugs I found two to be very loose; that you can fully unscrew by hand! What the hell causes this and is this norma?
The thing that is driving me NUTS is that my gas mileage is EXACTLY the same!!! It tells me that my car is just a PITA and doesn't want to be efficient AND that my old(er) Torquemaster's probably weren't bad at all. Can it be that my car is still learning them? or no? Does a car even "learn" different fuel curves when a new spark plug is installed?
One thing I have on my list is to re-troque the spark plugs this weekend to make sure that none have loosened up on me. When I was changing my plugs I found two to be very loose; that you can fully unscrew by hand! What the hell causes this and is this norma?
11-01-11, 12:41 PM
#23
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I already got them and paid about $60 bucks...not too bad.
The thing that is driving me NUTS is that my gas mileage is EXACTLY the same!!! It tells me that my car is just a PITA and doesn't want to be efficient AND that my old(er) Torquemaster's probably weren't bad at all. Can it be that my car is still learning them? or no? Does a car even "learn" different fuel curves when a new spark plug is installed?
One thing I have on my list is to re-troque the spark plugs this weekend to make sure that none have loosened up on me. When I was changing my plugs I found two to be very loose; that you can fully unscrew by hand! What the hell causes this and is this norma?
The thing that is driving me NUTS is that my gas mileage is EXACTLY the same!!! It tells me that my car is just a PITA and doesn't want to be efficient AND that my old(er) Torquemaster's probably weren't bad at all. Can it be that my car is still learning them? or no? Does a car even "learn" different fuel curves when a new spark plug is installed?
One thing I have on my list is to re-troque the spark plugs this weekend to make sure that none have loosened up on me. When I was changing my plugs I found two to be very loose; that you can fully unscrew by hand! What the hell causes this and is this norma?
As for learning spark plugs, I don't believe there is that much the ecu can do with that, I don't think it can really tell what type of plug is in there. Maybe by how the fuel is burned the O2 sensor can relay that to the ecu for fuel and timing tables...its really hard to say.
If they are coming loose, it's probably from the heat cycling of the engine. Does this happen on other plugs (ngk, etc.) Assuming they are torqued down to the right specs? Maybe the crush washer isn't seating properly.
11-22-11, 01:28 PM
#24
OEM Iridiums are Iridium tip with Plat Electrode. Dual Plats is a downgrade.
I still go back with old school, NGK u-groove coppers. I would rather change our my plugs every 30-35k miles and have a good inside look at my engine than to leave the others in there for 100k miles and risk breaking one off in there taking it out. And I can regap mine and go for another 30K with no issues.
And the Iridiums and Plats do nothing over a good set of coppers for power except reduce it. The tips run hotter than coppers (this is NOT the plug temp) and knock, is more prevalent with Plats or Iridiums. Sure they last longer, but don't care about life of the plug.
NON OEM Iridiums are rarely if ever Iridium/Plat, they are usually Iridium/Copper.
I still go back with old school, NGK u-groove coppers. I would rather change our my plugs every 30-35k miles and have a good inside look at my engine than to leave the others in there for 100k miles and risk breaking one off in there taking it out. And I can regap mine and go for another 30K with no issues.
And the Iridiums and Plats do nothing over a good set of coppers for power except reduce it. The tips run hotter than coppers (this is NOT the plug temp) and knock, is more prevalent with Plats or Iridiums. Sure they last longer, but don't care about life of the plug.
NON OEM Iridiums are rarely if ever Iridium/Plat, they are usually Iridium/Copper.
^ Thank you! Makes me wonder why a company like Lexus will go with Iridium rather than double platinum since the double plats appear to have a longer life span. My Infiniti G35 had double plats, which boggles me.
So in essence, you are stating that double plats would be a better option rather than going with the iridium with plat ground strap?
So in essence, you are stating that double plats would be a better option rather than going with the iridium with plat ground strap?
11-22-11, 02:54 PM
#25
OEM Iridiums are Iridium tip with Plat Electrode. Dual Plats is a downgrade.
I still go back with old school, NGK u-groove coppers. I would rather change our my plugs every 30-35k miles and have a good inside look at my engine than to leave the others in there for 100k miles and risk breaking one off in there taking it out. And I can regap mine and go for another 30K with no issues.
And the Iridiums and Plats do nothing over a good set of coppers for power except reduce it. The tips run hotter than coppers (this is NOT the plug temp) and knock, is more prevalent with Plats or Iridiums. Sure they last longer, but don't care about life of the plug.
NON OEM Iridiums are rarely if ever Iridium/Plat, they are usually Iridium/Copper.
I still go back with old school, NGK u-groove coppers. I would rather change our my plugs every 30-35k miles and have a good inside look at my engine than to leave the others in there for 100k miles and risk breaking one off in there taking it out. And I can regap mine and go for another 30K with no issues.
And the Iridiums and Plats do nothing over a good set of coppers for power except reduce it. The tips run hotter than coppers (this is NOT the plug temp) and knock, is more prevalent with Plats or Iridiums. Sure they last longer, but don't care about life of the plug.
NON OEM Iridiums are rarely if ever Iridium/Plat, they are usually Iridium/Copper.
11-22-11, 03:01 PM
#26
I have a GS400, but my 3800 Supercharged is OEM with NGK Iridiums. And waste spark. I have had waste spark engine since 1992. I know that ignition well. GM started using it back in 1982-1983 on the 3.8L V6's. Simple and powerful and cost effective.
Just pointing out the differences if the plugs. OEM is a different plug than parts store Iridiums.
Did the 2005 GS300's have dual plat or iridium/plat? I would be surprised if the 2000 up GS3's were not Iridium from the factory.
Just pointing out the differences if the plugs. OEM is a different plug than parts store Iridiums.
Did the 2005 GS300's have dual plat or iridium/plat? I would be surprised if the 2000 up GS3's were not Iridium from the factory.
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