!!Looking for a Turbo ?!!
12-20-11, 08:39 PM
#47
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
From a marketing perspective it makes no sense for a retailer to manufacture and sell forced induction for this car. *There's a hundred threads around that and that's not what this one is about. *
I'm not looking at $ per HP but rather form and function. *These cars are getting cheap enough in the used market to toy around with. *I have access to enough tools and resources to perform some level of R&D rather then slap parts together.
I'm not looking at $ per HP but rather form and function. *These cars are getting cheap enough in the used market to toy around with. *I have access to enough tools and resources to perform some level of R&D rather then slap parts together.
There are many very expensive reasons why we haven't seen a successful boosted 2IS with only a very few exceptions (all one offs).
12-20-11, 09:18 PM
#48
From a marketing perspective it makes no sense for a retailer to manufacture and sell forced induction for this car. *There's a hundred threads around that and that's not what this one is about. *
I'm not looking at $ per HP but rather form and function. *These cars are getting cheap enough in the used market to toy around with. *I have access to enough tools and resources to perform some level of R&D rather then slap parts together.
I'm not looking at $ per HP but rather form and function. *These cars are getting cheap enough in the used market to toy around with. *I have access to enough tools and resources to perform some level of R&D rather then slap parts together.
Every few months, for like 6 years now, someone wanders into the 2IS forums, insists they're "really familiar with forced induction" and is going to turbo their car.
Folks mention the long list of obstacles to this goal, the OP mostly dismisses or ignores em, says "Just you wait, it'll be up and running soon"
and then generally they're never heard from again (or in the case of one guy from TN on my.is, he mentions he blew the motor trying to boost to 8 psi, and then is never heard from again)
This happens over and over, every few months.
So when another person comes in and says it, you might understand it's met with some skepticism.
Even supercharger setups, a much simpler system than a turbo kit, has largely been variations on the old 5 psi LMS kit they quit making because the cost to power ratio was so awful, and even then you can count the # of cars with such a setup on one hand, and the number of folks who said they'd do better and didn't is a fair bit higher.
This includes folks with entire shops who insisted they had FI experts working on kits.
By all means give it a shot, but based on your ideas toward the project so far I'd at least strongly suggest you take a couple days when you have time to do a lot of reading, drop $15 bucks on a 2 day subscription to TIS, and look into the details of the engine you're talking about, because this is [B]not[B] a 2JZ, and 90s-era tuning isn't going to get you anywhere with it.
FWIW you can probably get 5-6 psi without extra fueling or tuning..... a couple of the supercharger guys have, though you're right on the border of the fuel system and stock tuning capacity there.... and I kinda doubt the gains will be worth the work involved in going turbo over SC, considering the SC guys don't need anything on the exhaust side and even their results are generally very underwhelming for the cost.
Last edited by Kurtz; 12-20-11 at 09:26 PM.
12-21-11, 07:21 AM
#49
Its all good, I'm not going anywhere; its good to see RE as there really isnt much to talk about with regard to performance on this platform. Nice to see replies!
I'm at a crossroads with my IS350 as its not worth much to sell (in my eyes) being an 06 with 90k miles. Plus, I did financially foolish mods such as a full black interior swap (from tan) that I will never recoup costs from. I still enjoy the car and plan to keep it around just to see what I can figure out in the FI area. Win or lose it will be personally satisfying as this is a hobby of mine!
I'm at a crossroads with my IS350 as its not worth much to sell (in my eyes) being an 06 with 90k miles. Plus, I did financially foolish mods such as a full black interior swap (from tan) that I will never recoup costs from. I still enjoy the car and plan to keep it around just to see what I can figure out in the FI area. Win or lose it will be personally satisfying as this is a hobby of mine!
03-07-12, 08:16 AM
#50
Its all good, I'm not going anywhere; its good to see RE as there really isnt much to talk about with regard to performance on this platform. Nice to see replies!
I'm at a crossroads with my IS350 as its not worth much to sell (in my eyes) being an 06 with 90k miles. Plus, I did financially foolish mods such as a full black interior swap (from tan) that I will never recoup costs from. I still enjoy the car and plan to keep it around just to see what I can figure out in the FI area. Win or lose it will be personally satisfying as this is a hobby of mine!
I'm at a crossroads with my IS350 as its not worth much to sell (in my eyes) being an 06 with 90k miles. Plus, I did financially foolish mods such as a full black interior swap (from tan) that I will never recoup costs from. I still enjoy the car and plan to keep it around just to see what I can figure out in the FI area. Win or lose it will be personally satisfying as this is a hobby of mine!
Derailed in a positive way! I've successfully brought my is350 up on 7lbs of boost utilizing a S/C. I sort of reinvented the wheel by utilizing design from LMS but this is def. NOT a copy kit. I started with a trashed C2 Procharger that leaked like a sleeve and sounded like loose rocks were inside. Upgraded/replaced every bearing, seal and even a flange that called for overhaul; the gear shafts even got a makeover. ((I'll be posting a DIY on this later once I get organized.))
But anyway, I havent abandoned a rear turbo setup but it is def. on hold until after summer while I enjoy my car. I'm going to start a thread with lots of pics and info. on the S/C setup from start to finish (including meth setup). Its not ground breaking but it might be insightful to share as I am 100% DIY. I have also duplicated the "kit" and have resources to fabricate integral parts such as mounting bracket, crank pulley and various piping/flanges. Fun stuff; the car just got a whole lot more enjoyable at a price thats easily justifiable!
03-07-12, 10:33 AM
#52
A lot since I used ceramic bearings, had custom cnc machine work done, a treadstone intercooler, the list goes on.
HOWEVER, I can reproduce a "kit" with lesser bells and whistles for probably $3k at 5.5PSI. Of course that would be with a rebuilt procharger unit as I cant seem to find brand new units for less then $2k. I'll also argue that I'd rather have a rebuilt unit as some of the koyo, fafnir and *** bearings I pulled out of the two units I have were total GARBAGE. I use only ABEC-7 steel bearings as a lesser option to full ceramic or hybrids.
HOWEVER, I can reproduce a "kit" with lesser bells and whistles for probably $3k at 5.5PSI. Of course that would be with a rebuilt procharger unit as I cant seem to find brand new units for less then $2k. I'll also argue that I'd rather have a rebuilt unit as some of the koyo, fafnir and *** bearings I pulled out of the two units I have were total GARBAGE. I use only ABEC-7 steel bearings as a lesser option to full ceramic or hybrids.
03-07-12, 10:34 AM
#53
Just wanted to throw this out there. Everyone who had a S/C on this board never provided Dyno sheet. Only Doug did years back w/ his modified LMS kit that Factually got 50+ WHP.
Everyone else simply deflected the question if you check the threads.....
Everyone else simply deflected the question if you check the threads.....
03-07-12, 10:44 AM
#54
Yeah, good info. is tough to find. I think most people just didnt care...As I really dont since I wanted to keep my car and make it 'faster.' I'm a bit less concerned in bang for the buck or I would have just NOS'd it. I'll share everything I've done when I start my thread. I wont dyno until spring is really here when I'm driving the car more consistantly. Dont worry, Mustang Dynameter corporate headquarters is 30miles from me...they have plenty of dynos setup.
03-07-12, 10:52 AM
#55
That said, HKS350 did show trap speeds at least suggesting his gains (which were more than 50, but then his kit retail is more than 6k too, especially with tuning)... haven't seen a final dyno though.
To mikellucci- looking forward to your SC thread... I think if you could actually sell a +50 hp SC kit for 3k you'd get a decent amount of interest in it.
It was at 2x that price that LMS couldn't sell enough to bother with it... (even moreso when the F came out and offered 108 hp and a better transmission for around 10k)... but 3k is probably cheap enough... especially given some folks have spent close to that on intake/exhaust/headers to gain about half as much.
You'd probably get even more interest from the 250 guys, since it'd be the first kit that's actually cheaper than just trading in for a 350.... (albeit at half the gains). Watch out though- I know when Pepos adapted the LMS kit for his 250 in Greece he found it ran super super lean until he got a MAPECU3 on there to correct it, which probably puts the pricing back into "might as well get a 350" territory for folks in the US.
03-07-12, 11:02 AM
#56
Yeah, to each his own. I spent more money then I wanted to but I'm a bit meticulous and couldnt help it....$6k for 50whp issss...well.... meh. LOL
I talked to Elias a few times regarding his setup and the cars ECU behavior at 7psi. I believe he sorted his issues out but I'm not quite sure it was with a map ecu? I strugged quite a bit trying to raise the boost on the 350 using a smaller pulley. The belt kept slipping and boost would just not go past 5.5psi. I "think" I have it figure out with a combination of sorts including different Dayco pulleys. I'll be confirming over the next few weeks.
The 250 has potential as it luvs 7lbs but as you said gets very very aggressive. I think a little investigation would go a long way in making the IS250 more fun without breaking the bank$.
I talked to Elias a few times regarding his setup and the cars ECU behavior at 7psi. I believe he sorted his issues out but I'm not quite sure it was with a map ecu? I strugged quite a bit trying to raise the boost on the 350 using a smaller pulley. The belt kept slipping and boost would just not go past 5.5psi. I "think" I have it figure out with a combination of sorts including different Dayco pulleys. I'll be confirming over the next few weeks.
The 250 has potential as it luvs 7lbs but as you said gets very very aggressive. I think a little investigation would go a long way in making the IS250 more fun without breaking the bank$.
03-07-12, 11:30 AM
#57
Lexus Test Driver
Elias is using mapecu. He had to add additional components from MAPECU to enable both open and closed loop tuning.
I talked to him before I got it running on my NA setup
I talked to him before I got it running on my NA setup
03-07-12, 12:14 PM
#58
Probably because they didn't want to get into a "yeah, I paid $6000 for 50 hp" debate...
That said, HKS350 did show trap speeds at least suggesting his gains (which were more than 50, but then his kit retail is more than 6k too, especially with tuning)... haven't seen a final dyno though.
To mikellucci- looking forward to your SC thread... I think if you could actually sell a +50 hp SC kit for 3k you'd get a decent amount of interest in it.
It was at 2x that price that LMS couldn't sell enough to bother with it... (even moreso when the F came out and offered 108 hp and a better transmission for around 10k)... but 3k is probably cheap enough... especially given some folks have spent close to that on intake/exhaust/headers to gain about half as much.
You'd probably get even more interest from the 250 guys, since it'd be the first kit that's actually cheaper than just trading in for a 350.... (albeit at half the gains). Watch out though- I know when Pepos adapted the LMS kit for his 250 in Greece he found it ran super super lean until he got a MAPECU3 on there to correct it, which probably puts the pricing back into "might as well get a 350" territory for folks in the US.
That said, HKS350 did show trap speeds at least suggesting his gains (which were more than 50, but then his kit retail is more than 6k too, especially with tuning)... haven't seen a final dyno though.
To mikellucci- looking forward to your SC thread... I think if you could actually sell a +50 hp SC kit for 3k you'd get a decent amount of interest in it.
It was at 2x that price that LMS couldn't sell enough to bother with it... (even moreso when the F came out and offered 108 hp and a better transmission for around 10k)... but 3k is probably cheap enough... especially given some folks have spent close to that on intake/exhaust/headers to gain about half as much.
You'd probably get even more interest from the 250 guys, since it'd be the first kit that's actually cheaper than just trading in for a 350.... (albeit at half the gains). Watch out though- I know when Pepos adapted the LMS kit for his 250 in Greece he found it ran super super lean until he got a MAPECU3 on there to correct it, which probably puts the pricing back into "might as well get a 350" territory for folks in the US.
. Props to these guys who actually post up results.I do believe iSuxel also dyno'd his car aswell.
AFIK ive been informed that unless you are running meth with some other modifications to the super charger kit, your car is going to run super lean and also lose hp. I personally cant validate that as I do not have a super charger installed, but a friend of mine who worked closely with LMS relayed me that information.
Last edited by JoshIS408; 03-07-12 at 12:18 PM.
03-07-12, 01:23 PM
#59
A lot since I used ceramic bearings, had custom cnc machine work done, a treadstone intercooler, the list goes on.
HOWEVER, I can reproduce a "kit" with lesser bells and whistles for probably $3k at 5.5PSI. Of course that would be with a rebuilt procharger unit as I cant seem to find brand new units for less then $2k. I'll also argue that I'd rather have a rebuilt unit as some of the koyo, fafnir and *** bearings I pulled out of the two units I have were total GARBAGE. I use only ABEC-7 steel bearings as a lesser option to full ceramic or hybrids.
HOWEVER, I can reproduce a "kit" with lesser bells and whistles for probably $3k at 5.5PSI. Of course that would be with a rebuilt procharger unit as I cant seem to find brand new units for less then $2k. I'll also argue that I'd rather have a rebuilt unit as some of the koyo, fafnir and *** bearings I pulled out of the two units I have were total GARBAGE. I use only ABEC-7 steel bearings as a lesser option to full ceramic or hybrids.
haha
03-07-12, 02:10 PM
#60
Good job on the DYI kit,
As for Dyno unless you base lined then the numbers mean nothing.
On the other side tho trap speeds in the 1/4 mile can get you close to WHP numbers.
I for one never based the car after my PPE header install.
So I just don't care to waste the money on the dyno time.
I have in fact tho dynoed the car without headers and did 280whp
Then added an 80hp shot of N2O which posted 330whp at 109 mph trap speeds in the 1/4 mile.
So I'm now on HKS supercharger with 6.5-7psi tuned clean. Also PPE headers + full custom 2.75 inch exhaust.
I'm now trapping speeds a lot faster putting my wheel HP close to 360- 380.
So if you take the data above I'm close to performing as well as a lightly modded ISF.
I have "street" raced an ISF and pull pretty hard (1.5 car lengths) up to 80 mph the ISF then hits its gusto and starts to walk me down when I go into 4th gear.
The ISF shines above 120 mph
The HKS supercharger IS350 will pull hard on an ISF below 100 mph.
The boost coupled with nice gearing in the IS350 make it a beast on a 20 mph roll.
As for Dyno unless you base lined then the numbers mean nothing.
On the other side tho trap speeds in the 1/4 mile can get you close to WHP numbers.
I for one never based the car after my PPE header install.
So I just don't care to waste the money on the dyno time.
I have in fact tho dynoed the car without headers and did 280whp
Then added an 80hp shot of N2O which posted 330whp at 109 mph trap speeds in the 1/4 mile.
So I'm now on HKS supercharger with 6.5-7psi tuned clean. Also PPE headers + full custom 2.75 inch exhaust.
I'm now trapping speeds a lot faster putting my wheel HP close to 360- 380.
So if you take the data above I'm close to performing as well as a lightly modded ISF.
I have "street" raced an ISF and pull pretty hard (1.5 car lengths) up to 80 mph the ISF then hits its gusto and starts to walk me down when I go into 4th gear.
The ISF shines above 120 mph
The HKS supercharger IS350 will pull hard on an ISF below 100 mph.
The boost coupled with nice gearing in the IS350 make it a beast on a 20 mph roll.