TorqueMaster plugs question
10-13-02, 05:45 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
TorqueMaster plugs question
Just had the Lexus dealer finally install my TorqueMaster spark plugs (sat on my desk for 2 months) a couple of days ago. I have observe a couple of things and hope those that have TM plugs installed on their GS could shed some light if they had experienced the same things. I had reset the ECU by removing the battery negative for 1 hour. Only other engine mod is a K&N drop-in filter.
1) Idle is not as smooth as with the iridium plugs. Right now there is only 70+ miles on the GS with the TM plugs. At idle you can feel the engine is not idling smoothly (once in awhile short minute shakes) on the steering wheel and shifter when the stifter is in drive. Probably need to have the ECU relearn a bit longer.
2) There is a bit more pronounce exhaust growl on hard acceleration. I have stock exhaust and I like the sound. There also is a little bit more rumble at idle (which I like also).
3) Notice the rpm rev faster on hard acceleration but car doesn't feel any faster. Throttle seems more responsive. Did a WOT acceleration from a stand still and it seems a bit slow on acceleration but smoother though. Too rich or too lean mixture??? ECU relearn issue again???
I guess I will wait after 200 miles to see if the idle smooth out a bit more.
Chu...
1) Idle is not as smooth as with the iridium plugs. Right now there is only 70+ miles on the GS with the TM plugs. At idle you can feel the engine is not idling smoothly (once in awhile short minute shakes) on the steering wheel and shifter when the stifter is in drive. Probably need to have the ECU relearn a bit longer.
2) There is a bit more pronounce exhaust growl on hard acceleration. I have stock exhaust and I like the sound. There also is a little bit more rumble at idle (which I like also).
3) Notice the rpm rev faster on hard acceleration but car doesn't feel any faster. Throttle seems more responsive. Did a WOT acceleration from a stand still and it seems a bit slow on acceleration but smoother though. Too rich or too lean mixture??? ECU relearn issue again???
I guess I will wait after 200 miles to see if the idle smooth out a bit more.
Chu...
10-13-02, 08:46 AM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
A lot of people have said the car seems to rev higher more quickly with the TM plugs. If the car is no faster, this concerns me because it may mean you're getting incomplete combustion. But that's just a guess, I'm certainly no expert.
I don't have the TM plugs by the way.
I don't have the TM plugs by the way.
10-14-02, 02:47 PM
#3
After I put my TMs in, I went to the drag strip that week, no appreciable improvement. A couple weeks later, however, after the ECU adapted I guess, I was getting better times. No negative starting/idle/noise issues to report. In addition to the TMs I have an Injen intake, and under WOT, I can make Mustangs blush (although our DOHCs sound a bit more sophisticated.)
I think it is still early yet. If these conditions persist a month later, see your health care professional.
I think it is still early yet. If these conditions persist a month later, see your health care professional.
10-15-02, 02:42 AM
#4
Instructor
Thread Starter
Followup
Well now that have put over 170 miles on the GS and drove the hell out of it during most of those miles. Here is what I can report.
1) The idle has now smoothen out more in Park. Still has a small vibration while in Drive (hopefully that will smooth out more after a few more weeks).
2) The low rumble exhaust sound at idle has reduced
. Right after the TM plugs installation you can see my exhaust tip shake. Now that shake has lessen.
3) The low end torque improved (acceleration from standstill).
4) Throttle response is still better than with the iridium plugs.
5) The car does not stumble or hesitate if you quickly and lightly step (low rpm) and release the gas while on park. Had that problem when the TM plugs was first installed.
My guess is that the ECU is adjusting the air/fuel mixture to lean it more. The default mixture after the ECU reset may be too rich.
Chu...
1) The idle has now smoothen out more in Park. Still has a small vibration while in Drive (hopefully that will smooth out more after a few more weeks).
2) The low rumble exhaust sound at idle has reduced
. Right after the TM plugs installation you can see my exhaust tip shake. Now that shake has lessen.3) The low end torque improved (acceleration from standstill).
4) Throttle response is still better than with the iridium plugs.
5) The car does not stumble or hesitate if you quickly and lightly step (low rpm) and release the gas while on park. Had that problem when the TM plugs was first installed.
My guess is that the ECU is adjusting the air/fuel mixture to lean it more. The default mixture after the ECU reset may be too rich.
Chu...
Last edited by ChuH; 10-15-02 at 06:02 AM.
10-15-02, 10:22 AM
#5
Pole Position
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Relearn ?
If you think it might be because the ecu is trying to relearn does that mean if you like to reset your ecu often then don't go with torque masters ? I believe in resetting the ecu often as I can feel an improvement after the reset and am currently in the market for new plugs. Please advise. thanks
10-15-02, 08:43 PM
#6
Instructor
Thread Starter
Well I spoke too soon. For item #5 from my previous post
"5) The car does not stumble or hesitate if you quickly and lightly step (low rpm) and release the gas while on park. Had that problem when the TM plugs was first installed.". This morning when I started the car and did the quick throttle blip test and the car did the same stumble and hesitate while on park. After the car warmed up the problem disappeared. At this point I am a bit disappointed with low end idle problem. If this persist after a month the TM plugs are coming out and the iridium goes back in.
I had reset my GS430 in the past (before the TM plugs) by removing the negative on the battery for about 1 hour. I did not notice the same problem I am experiencing now.
I do not now how many GS430 owner are using the TM plugs. Maybe because the GS430 is ULEV certified that the TM plugs act differently than on those with GS400. Just a guess.
Chu...
"5) The car does not stumble or hesitate if you quickly and lightly step (low rpm) and release the gas while on park. Had that problem when the TM plugs was first installed.". This morning when I started the car and did the quick throttle blip test and the car did the same stumble and hesitate while on park. After the car warmed up the problem disappeared. At this point I am a bit disappointed with low end idle problem. If this persist after a month the TM plugs are coming out and the iridium goes back in.
I had reset my GS430 in the past (before the TM plugs) by removing the negative on the battery for about 1 hour. I did not notice the same problem I am experiencing now.
I do not now how many GS430 owner are using the TM plugs. Maybe because the GS430 is ULEV certified that the TM plugs act differently than on those with GS400. Just a guess.
Chu...
Last edited by ChuH; 10-15-02 at 08:44 PM.
10-19-02, 06:45 AM
#7
Instructor
Thread Starter
TM Plugs going
Okay guys.
Now with 350 miles since the install of the TM plugs they are coming out on my next schedule service (in two weeks). I am tired of the rough idle while the car is in gear and not moving. As a test I put the car in park and rev the engine at a steady 2000 rpm and the car sound as if there are some predetonations or misfires (mild low popping sound from the exhaust in sync with a mild shake).
Just notice a few minutes ago that there was some smoke coming out of the exhaust when I exited. The car was still running when I notice the smoke. Don't know what color it was as it is too dark outside. Going to try it again in the morning. Could it be the bottle of Techron injector cleaner I added this afternoon?
As much as I hate to give up the torque increase and throttle response of the TM plugs gives I hate even more the idle problem therefore they are coming out.
Anyone want to buy some TM plugs cheap?
Chu...
Now with 350 miles since the install of the TM plugs they are coming out on my next schedule service (in two weeks). I am tired of the rough idle while the car is in gear and not moving. As a test I put the car in park and rev the engine at a steady 2000 rpm and the car sound as if there are some predetonations or misfires (mild low popping sound from the exhaust in sync with a mild shake).
Just notice a few minutes ago that there was some smoke coming out of the exhaust when I exited. The car was still running when I notice the smoke. Don't know what color it was as it is too dark outside. Going to try it again in the morning. Could it be the bottle of Techron injector cleaner I added this afternoon?
As much as I hate to give up the torque increase and throttle response of the TM plugs gives I hate even more the idle problem therefore they are coming out.
Anyone want to buy some TM plugs cheap?
Chu...
Last edited by ChuH; 10-19-02 at 07:54 PM.
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10-19-02, 07:19 PM
#9
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DOOD!
I'm having the same problems with my LS. I installed TM plugs a few months ago and I noticed some weird things. The main issue I have that goes along with yours is the shake on the engine like the car is mis-firing.
I confirmed this by lightly pulling the throttle cable on the manifold very slowly and watch thing the engine. It shakes maybe 20 times during one minute or so very lightly. Enough to visually see and feel. From inside the car you can watch tachometer when the engine shakes and the RPMs drop for a split second.
When I replaced the plugs I did the wires, caps and rotors. Nobody in the LS forums seems to have a definitive answer on the shaking problem. Any more clues?
I'm having the same problems with my LS. I installed TM plugs a few months ago and I noticed some weird things. The main issue I have that goes along with yours is the shake on the engine like the car is mis-firing.
I confirmed this by lightly pulling the throttle cable on the manifold very slowly and watch thing the engine. It shakes maybe 20 times during one minute or so very lightly. Enough to visually see and feel. From inside the car you can watch tachometer when the engine shakes and the RPMs drop for a split second.
When I replaced the plugs I did the wires, caps and rotors. Nobody in the LS forums seems to have a definitive answer on the shaking problem. Any more clues?
10-19-02, 07:36 PM
#10
Instructor
Thread Starter
Hi Lvangundy:
Great to hear I am not alone with the problem. Because most of my driving is at low rpm (1-2K rpm) I want smooth operation at that range. I am not denying any torque increase benefits but I wish I can solve the shakes.
I am sending TorqueMaster a email to see if they have anything to say about the problems I am having. I will post it here if I receive a reply from them.
One thing I notice is my rpm is lower when my car is in gear, AC on and not moving. As I recall my idle rpm with load were higher with the iridium plugs.
My deadline to give TM a last try is Nov. 4th. If I don't get the problem resolve by TM they are coming out. I didn't buy a $50K car that shakes at idle.
Chu...
Great to hear I am not alone with the problem. Because most of my driving is at low rpm (1-2K rpm) I want smooth operation at that range. I am not denying any torque increase benefits but I wish I can solve the shakes.
I am sending TorqueMaster a email to see if they have anything to say about the problems I am having. I will post it here if I receive a reply from them.
One thing I notice is my rpm is lower when my car is in gear, AC on and not moving. As I recall my idle rpm with load were higher with the iridium plugs.
My deadline to give TM a last try is Nov. 4th. If I don't get the problem resolve by TM they are coming out. I didn't buy a $50K car that shakes at idle.
Chu...
10-24-02, 12:18 PM
#11
TM's
ChuH-
Sorry to hear you are having idle issues. I've had no problem with low idle "stumbles...shaking" with my TMs. It's as smooth as it was with the Iridiums. Could it be a loose plug??? I installed my plugs myself and made sure they went in right. Keep us posted.
Sorry to hear you are having idle issues. I've had no problem with low idle "stumbles...shaking" with my TMs. It's as smooth as it was with the Iridiums. Could it be a loose plug??? I installed my plugs myself and made sure they went in right. Keep us posted.
10-24-02, 12:33 PM
#12
Instructor
Thread Starter
Hey GS430lvr:
Do you have any other engine modification? In the morning I am going replace the K&N drop-in air filter and put back the stock air filter to see if the problem still exists. If all else fail I will have the TM plugs remove on Nov. 4th. Suzie from TM had contacted me ask me to drop by their office to check on the problem and I told her it is impossible as I am in Guam (a island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean). I have asked LVANGUNDY who also have similar problem to see if he can drop by instead.
Could you try something for me. In the morning when the engine is cold. Upon startup lightly and quickly press the gas and see if you notice any slight stumbling or hesitation. Also with the car in PARK and AC ON maintain a 2000 rpm and listen to your exhaust and feel for any shakes. I get low popping sound like the engine misfiring with minor shake associated with the sound.
Chu...
Do you have any other engine modification? In the morning I am going replace the K&N drop-in air filter and put back the stock air filter to see if the problem still exists. If all else fail I will have the TM plugs remove on Nov. 4th. Suzie from TM had contacted me ask me to drop by their office to check on the problem and I told her it is impossible as I am in Guam (a island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean). I have asked LVANGUNDY who also have similar problem to see if he can drop by instead.
Could you try something for me. In the morning when the engine is cold. Upon startup lightly and quickly press the gas and see if you notice any slight stumbling or hesitation. Also with the car in PARK and AC ON maintain a 2000 rpm and listen to your exhaust and feel for any shakes. I get low popping sound like the engine misfiring with minor shake associated with the sound.
Chu...
Last edited by ChuH; 10-24-02 at 12:37 PM.
10-24-02, 12:41 PM
#13
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YUP Chu and I are all over this one!
I actually called them a few minutes ago, but Suzie wasn't there.
I'm getting similar results as Chu does with his TM plugs. I posted above about it. One difference is that my stuttering engine happens below the 2000 RPM range.
I might be able to stop by there today, depending on how late they are open.
I actually called them a few minutes ago, but Suzie wasn't there.
I'm getting similar results as Chu does with his TM plugs. I posted above about it. One difference is that my stuttering engine happens below the 2000 RPM range.
I might be able to stop by there today, depending on how late they are open.
10-24-02, 11:21 PM
#14
ChuH/Lvangundy:
I'm currently running the stock air filter and I just ran it at 2000rpm with the AC on,...seems smooth with an occasional shake but could be my unsteady foot. I'll try it in the morning and let you know.
-I've read that a lot of GS400 owners on CL were having a shuddering problem at idle in drive but that was with the stock plugs.
-Definitely try re-installing the old filter and maybe another ECU reset?? Maybe that's it??
I'm currently running the stock air filter and I just ran it at 2000rpm with the AC on,...seems smooth with an occasional shake but could be my unsteady foot. I'll try it in the morning and let you know.
-I've read that a lot of GS400 owners on CL were having a shuddering problem at idle in drive but that was with the stock plugs.
-Definitely try re-installing the old filter and maybe another ECU reset?? Maybe that's it??
10-24-02, 11:24 PM
#15
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