lsd ? how do i test
#16
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ok
Worm-gear Torsen-type LSD, 3.769 Ratio (13 teeth pinion, 49 teeth ring): Standard differential for 93-96 TT automatic transmission Supras.
is that the one i want for best performance.
is that the one i want for best performance.
#17
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Re: ok
Originally posted by fireballs gs400
Worm-gear Torsen-type LSD, 3.769 Ratio (13 teeth pinion, 49 teeth ring): Standard differential for 93-96 TT automatic transmission Supras.
is that the one i want for best performance.
Worm-gear Torsen-type LSD, 3.769 Ratio (13 teeth pinion, 49 teeth ring): Standard differential for 93-96 TT automatic transmission Supras.
is that the one i want for best performance.
These differentials are not that plentiful in the "used" market right now. Expect to pay $400-$600 used and $1500 new. Furthermore, I've found most sellers are not wiling to remove the differential cover to confirm LSD and ratio and send pictures. If they are unwilling, this means they probably have something to hide. As you can see from the specs / application list, there is a wide variety of diffs available for the MKiV Supra so it would be easy to receive a diff other than what you paid for. Buyer beware!
#18
Originally posted by jeffandi
With a clutch type (TRD) differential, both wheels will spin in the same direction when you do the test described earlier. With a torsen type (Supra LSD) differential, the test will result in the same behavior as an open differential (stock GS), one wheel spins in the opposite direction of the other.
There is no way to test for a torsen type LSD except to open the pumpkin and look inside. Pictures of a torsen LSD have been posted on the board here. Key thing to look for is a worm gear in the LSD as this is the foundation for the torsen type LSD.
Jeff
With a clutch type (TRD) differential, both wheels will spin in the same direction when you do the test described earlier. With a torsen type (Supra LSD) differential, the test will result in the same behavior as an open differential (stock GS), one wheel spins in the opposite direction of the other.
There is no way to test for a torsen type LSD except to open the pumpkin and look inside. Pictures of a torsen LSD have been posted on the board here. Key thing to look for is a worm gear in the LSD as this is the foundation for the torsen type LSD.
Jeff
and a TorSen is NOT a L.S.D.
u gotta drive the car to see the motion the car takes, between the types of diff's
#19
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#20
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Originally posted by JZS14SEVEN
and a TorSen is NOT a L.S.D.
and a TorSen is NOT a L.S.D.
http://www.rodmillenstore.com/gs_400/diff.htm
#21
Lexus Champion
Here's a link to a Torsen differential whitepaper,
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed...ferential.html
From the How Stuff Works Site...
The Torsen (from Torque Sensing) works as an open differential when the amount of torque going to each wheel is equal. As soon as one wheel starts to lose traction, the difference in torque causes the gears in the Torsen differential to bind together. The design of the gears in the differential determines the torque bias ratio. For instance, if a particular Torsen differential is designed with a 5:1 bias ratio, it is capable of applying up to five times more torque to the wheel that has good traction. ...However, if one wheel loses traction completely, the Torsen differential will be unable to supply any torque to the other wheel. The bias ratio determines how much torque can be transferred, and five times zero is zero.
Zexel Torsen, Inc, http://www.torsen.com/, the maker of the torsen differential never mentions limited slip but rather torque distribution. While JZS14SEVEN may technically be correct and is certainly in agreement with Zexel propaganda, a torsen differential provides the same end function as an LSD.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed...ferential.html
From the How Stuff Works Site...
The Torsen (from Torque Sensing) works as an open differential when the amount of torque going to each wheel is equal. As soon as one wheel starts to lose traction, the difference in torque causes the gears in the Torsen differential to bind together. The design of the gears in the differential determines the torque bias ratio. For instance, if a particular Torsen differential is designed with a 5:1 bias ratio, it is capable of applying up to five times more torque to the wheel that has good traction. ...However, if one wheel loses traction completely, the Torsen differential will be unable to supply any torque to the other wheel. The bias ratio determines how much torque can be transferred, and five times zero is zero.
Zexel Torsen, Inc, http://www.torsen.com/, the maker of the torsen differential never mentions limited slip but rather torque distribution. While JZS14SEVEN may technically be correct and is certainly in agreement with Zexel propaganda, a torsen differential provides the same end function as an LSD.
Last edited by redgs4; 05-14-03 at 11:43 PM.
#22
must be nice...
so nice of the peoples at RMM to OverSimplify things for Lexus owners...
a "Torsen Style L.S.D."... "Standard Marketing Hype"
RMM has been racing enough knows its not a LSD.(i hope)
But how many LEXUS owners know the difference between a "Limit Slip Diff" and a "Torsen diff"?
most people only know open, locked, L.S.D.
and finally.... who's making money???
know what your buying.. before you buy it
better yet know what you want.. then look how to get there
a "Torsen Style L.S.D."... "Standard Marketing Hype"
RMM has been racing enough knows its not a LSD.(i hope)
But how many LEXUS owners know the difference between a "Limit Slip Diff" and a "Torsen diff"?
most people only know open, locked, L.S.D.
and finally.... who's making money???
know what your buying.. before you buy it
better yet know what you want.. then look how to get there
#23
Lexus Champion
Who cares what its called?! Call it a cow-chip for all I care, as long as it provides me better traction and performance.
Most here know the difference between LSD and Torsen diff, but there are only a few available to us, so we collectively refer to them as LSDs. Chill out.
Wait, wait, wait - what would you rather we say, "traction adding devices"? Would that be OK with you?
Most here know the difference between LSD and Torsen diff, but there are only a few available to us, so we collectively refer to them as LSDs. Chill out.
Wait, wait, wait - what would you rather we say, "traction adding devices"? Would that be OK with you?
#24
Lexus Test Driver
I have been doing research on this subject myself since a "mechanic" told me in conversation that my GS400 had LSD because ALL GS's HAVE them. I didn't believe him, but based on the "tests" described here, it may. Both wheels turn in different directions when jacked up.
I don't believe I do have it, but I also don't believe that some of these "tests" are accurate ways to tell either. Yes, they probably do what a true LSD does, but does that mean that it IS an LSD....doubtful. I highly doubt that some of the smarter CL members would go and spend good money on true LSD's unnecessarily.
I also agree with Dex...no matter what it's called, it still nets the same results. We really shouldn't split hairs about it.
I don't believe I do have it, but I also don't believe that some of these "tests" are accurate ways to tell either. Yes, they probably do what a true LSD does, but does that mean that it IS an LSD....doubtful. I highly doubt that some of the smarter CL members would go and spend good money on true LSD's unnecessarily.
I also agree with Dex...no matter what it's called, it still nets the same results. We really shouldn't split hairs about it.
#25
Lexus Champion
Originally posted by jmecbr900
I have been doing research on this subject myself since a "mechanic" told me in conversation that my GS400 had LSD because ALL GS's HAVE them. I didn't believe him, but based on the "tests" described here, it may. Both wheels turn in different directions when jacked up.
I have been doing research on this subject myself since a "mechanic" told me in conversation that my GS400 had LSD because ALL GS's HAVE them. I didn't believe him, but based on the "tests" described here, it may. Both wheels turn in different directions when jacked up.
#26
Lexus Champion
Originally posted by jmecbr900
...a "mechanic" told me in conversation that my GS400 had LSD because ALL GS's HAVE them....
...a "mechanic" told me in conversation that my GS400 had LSD because ALL GS's HAVE them....
[sound from Family Fued buzzer]
#27
Originally posted by redgs4
Zexel Torsen, Inc, http://www.torsen.com/, the maker of the torsen differential never mentions limited slip but rather torque distribution. While JZS14SEVEN may technically be correct and is certainly in agreement with Zexel propaganda, a torsen differential provides the same end function as an LSD. [/B]
Zexel Torsen, Inc, http://www.torsen.com/, the maker of the torsen differential never mentions limited slip but rather torque distribution. While JZS14SEVEN may technically be correct and is certainly in agreement with Zexel propaganda, a torsen differential provides the same end function as an LSD. [/B]
I'm not in agreement with Zexel propaganda, i do agree with much of their FACTS..
of course they do not mention TorSen equiped vehicle "sacrafices" in their product advertisement/promotion.
end function same as a L.S.D.??
before you meet that end the TorSen redistributes power...
after you meet that end a L.S.D. starts working...
some difference in how they work and what they do..
going through a turn the timing/sequence of events changes according to what your car does best.
its up to the driver to understand when/where your advantages/disadvantages are...
only then will a driver be able to make use of what he's got.
#28
Lexus Champion
Originally posted by JZS14SEVEN
I'm not in agreement with Zexel propaganda, i do agree with much of their FACTS..
of course they do not mention TorSen equiped vehicle "sacrafices" in their product advertisement/promotion.
end function same as a L.S.D.??
before you meet that end the TorSen redistributes power...
after you meet that end a L.S.D. starts working...
some difference in how they work and what they do..
going through a turn the timing/sequence of events changes according to what your car does best.
its up to the driver to understand when/where your advantages/disadvantages are...
only then will a driver be able to make use of what he's got.
I'm not in agreement with Zexel propaganda, i do agree with much of their FACTS..
of course they do not mention TorSen equiped vehicle "sacrafices" in their product advertisement/promotion.
end function same as a L.S.D.??
before you meet that end the TorSen redistributes power...
after you meet that end a L.S.D. starts working...
some difference in how they work and what they do..
going through a turn the timing/sequence of events changes according to what your car does best.
its up to the driver to understand when/where your advantages/disadvantages are...
only then will a driver be able to make use of what he's got.
Yes, the torsen redistributes power and does so dependent upon the torque bias ratio of that particular unit. The key is the statement that the torsen can send a multiple of torque from the wheel that is slipping to the wheel that has traction -- and that zero traction means your multiple of redistributed torque is zero. As long as there is SOME traction the torsen functions much like an LSD, enough so that they are marketed and sold to the masses as an LSD.
Regarding the driver understanding and taking advantage of the strenghs and weaknesses of his car, well of course -- no disagreement on my part. Even with clutch type LSD's there are terms like 1-way, 2-way and now 1.5 way [the ATS LSD I installed is a 1.5 way -- thanks guru], each which affects the line a car can best take as it goes through a corner.
So JZS14SEVEN, you are right but it's a hollow victory as everyone will still undoubtedly use the term LSD to refer to the torsen type differential.
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