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Annual bump before it gets lost. For anyone curious what's inside the OS Giken, here you go...
And yes, I gave up looking for Finned case with LSD as the ISF LS460 guys ****** them up too quickly....
Originally Posted by 2013FSport
OK, I opened it and inspected the innards. All is as documented with 16 plates for maximum surface area as none are deactivated by mating like plates. Here, it is about surface area and oil control so, other than the way the discs are locked (external = drive & internal = driven), they are all the same. Oil channels on one side and flat on the other.
One observation is that they ran an oil channeled driven plate directly to the surface of the pressure ring (inner locking mechanism with the 4 pinions) and the springs. See below.
As seen from pulling the cover off.
Steel on steel oil control disks, no fiber to degrade. Exterior tabs are drive plates. Interior splines are driven plates.
Flip the ^^ above stack and place it here vv. This is a wearing surface that I would not have used personally. Shown is 4 pinion spider gears inside the pressure ring. 12 of the 16 holes have springs and the cam timing is marked 25/35 on pinion gear shaft assembly.
I didn't open the pressure ring assembly. It has 12 springs in this application. Supposedly there are 3 different spring rates; 18kg, 28kg, and 38kg. Think in terms of less hold-off pressure applied would make the lock action apply quicker while stiffer springs will provide smoothest lock action and the softest spring would provide the most aggressive lock. Same is true of the higher quantity 16 vs 12. That said, the little V6 is not delivering 500hp so a line must be drawn that enables the cam assembly to lock on lighter power loads.
Pressure Ring Assembly with side gear in place:
Is the "12S" indicating the pressure ring has 12 springs?
At the bottom of the picture is a Belleville conical spring atop the disk pack. Reading finds there are 3 different cone springs available; 1.4mm, 1.6mm and 1.8mm. I wish I'd measured this when it was apart just so we know. The thicker the spring, the more preload is applied to the clutch packs. The stiffer the cone spring, the higher initial breakaway torque will be and the more the car will want to understeer off throttle or part-throttle.
Re-assembly is pretty simple. There are 4 bolts at low tension securing the unit together. Basically drop everything into the cover in the reverse order; cone spring, side gears, 8 plates, the pressure ring mechanism, 8 more plates, the side gear and the Belleville cone spring. Now drop on the other half and start a couple of bolts to draw the assembly together. It took many criss cross steps with the four bolts to compress the cone springs.
These codes have a better place here...
LS460, ISF and RCF PN's below.
Originally Posted by Mikko
Does anyone have information about all the differential codes on the diff? I am not talking about the door codes. Like my diff has 381 sticker on the diff but some diesel models also have 32H. I would like to know what is the difference between these. Like what does those codes mean?
Like on is300 there are:
M96, M98, M85
It's here, but it's scattered. Most of the open diff 4.083:1 are 327. The ISF, RCF and LS460 run a 2.93 so those are out unless want a finned case and have the competence to swap innards.
I think all of the ISC get the same wide flanged case as the 350 and LS460, F's but retain the 4.08 ratio.... That leaves the 250 stuff and BRZ/86.... I haven’t done much looking but there is this from the ISF forum. Give a thanks to @Hoonee46 for that.
Originally Posted by hoonee46
Pic of LS460 LSD on the left // 09 ISF open diff on right.
just completed the swap. Sport mode, nannies on: i punched it from a stop, turning right, and the tail kicked out right away, no one tire fire and no sudden jerks from elsd, then car started beeping at me and smoothly straightened out. I'm in love all over again!
So conclusively these will all fit the ISF:
IS-F open diff: 48J...
IS-F LSD: 58J...
LS460 open diff: 32J...
LS460 FSPT LSD: 36J...
- The actual part# for the LS460 LSD is 41110-53292 same as 12+ISF
2013 IS350 Axle code = B06A = 327 diff sticker from > GSE21-AETLHA
327 = open diff
These codes have a better place here...
LS460, ISF and RCF PN's below.
It's here, but it's scattered. Most of the open diff 4.083:1 are 327. The ISF, RCF and LS460 run a 2.93 so those are out unless want a finned case and have the competence to swap innards.
I think all of the ISC get the same wide flanged case as the 350 and LS460, F's but retain the 4.08 ratio.... That leaves the 250 stuff and BRZ/86.... I haven’t done much looking but there is this from the ISF forum. Give a thanks to @Hoonee46 for that.
2013 IS350 Axle code = B06A = 327 diff sticker from > GSE21-AETLHA
327 = open diff
Alright.
So I purchased an OEM LS460 Torsen (41301-53051) and have it currently installed bolt-on on my 09 IS350.
So now just to summarize: do I correctly understand that there is no option to switch R&P to one installed in IS350 diff? And OS Giken or any other aftermarket part is the only solution to have an LSD with 4.083 gearing?
Alright.
So I purchased an OEM LS460 Torsen (41301-53051) and have it currently installed bolt-on on my 09 IS350.
So now just to summarize: do I correctly understand that there is no option to switch R&P to one installed in IS350 diff? And OS Giken or any other aftermarket part is the only solution to have an LSD with 4.083 gearing?
I'm not following you..... >>and have it currently installed bolt-on on my 09 IS350.
Are you saying you installed the LS460 housing as is with the 2.93:1 gear set?
With the 350, your best bet to get your gearing back to useful is to open the 460 housing, remove the carrier/ring gear, separate the ring from the carrier and then do the same to the 350 case. Remove the ring from the open diff, chuck the open diff, install the 350 gear on the Torsen carrier and reassemble keeping the 460 outer bearing cups with the Torsen carrier.
Now put the Torsen unit in the 350 case using the 350 snap rings as guide for setup.
The caveat is this; check the pinion preload on both before you tear them down using an inch pound beam torque wrench. Clean the gears and apply gear compound like Persian Blue and look at the heel and toe contact pattern by turning the pinion in the direction of rotation while applying a load to the ring gear. << All of the oil must be off the gears for this to work. Check both gear sets so you know how it should look. Repeat the test in the opposite direction to get the coast pattern. Now check the backlash on both so you know what it is BEFORE tearing them apart!!! Finally, repeat the pinion load test on just the pinion bearings and front seal. This lets you know how much preload there is and where it is Pinion vs side bearings.
So, with all of this information, when you re-assemble your case with the Torsen unit, your goal is to confirm you have the correct backlash, the preload is not significantly higher, and the contact patch of the gear set is good for both power and coasting. If all of this is true when assembled, you will be good to go!! Button it up and toss it in.
Attached is diagram we can reference if something is unclear. I know Lexus calls the center carrier LSD unit a "CASE SUB-ASSEMBLY, REAR DIFFERENTIAL" #41301. Most everyone else calls it the carrier or center section as it carries the ring gear.
Last edited by 2013FSport; 11-15-20 at 10:44 AM.
Reason: Added diagram
Thanks for the detailed answer and sorry for my late reply.
> Are you saying you installed the LS460 housing as is with the 2.93:1 gear set?
Yes. I was thinking about saving own R&P but then thought about trying this "as it is" just to measure the differences in future.
I wouldn't say 2.94 makes the car too slow in daily driving, but you will feel a little differences. Measuring it on a dyno will make a full picture of those losses. This is what I'm going to do in a couple of days.
It seems that what you've described is something we have already tried. But I'm not 100% percent sure about this because I wasn't taking a part in the process, so I need to confirm some details regarding it. Will keep you posted
BTW, I also found another confirmation of this. Gives me another hope on the successful end of this mod...
Thanks for the detailed answer and sorry for my late reply.
> Are you saying you installed the LS460 housing as is with the 2.93:1 gear set?
Yes. I was thinking about saving own R&P but then thought about trying this "as it is" just to measure the differences in future.
I wouldn't say 2.94 makes the car too slow in daily driving, but you will feel a little differences. Measuring it on a dyno will make a full picture of those losses. This is what I'm going to do in a couple of days.
It seems that what you've described is something we have already tried. But I'm not 100% percent sure about this because I wasn't taking a part in the process, so I need to confirm some details regarding it. Will keep you posted
BTW, I also found another confirmation of this. Gives me another hope on the successful end of this mod...
Hindsight is I think the OEM Torsen is smaller than a clutch pack LSD, so they likely do drop in.
Is the case you found finned? What year is it? Like I said the easy swap is putting the LSD in your old 350 case.
It's a complete '13 LS460 assembly. On the image below - installed on my IS350
> Like I said the easy swap is putting the LSD in your old 350 case.
Do we have a complete guide posted around this forum somewhere? Just to confirm it one more time. Sorry if I'm missing it, but it seems like I did a complete research already.
Last edited by user 6292720; 11-23-20 at 02:02 PM.
It's a complete '13 LS460 assembly. On the image below - installed on my IS350
> Like I said the easy swap is putting the LSD in your old 350 case.
Do we have a complete guide posted around this forum somewhere? Just to confirm it one more time. Sorry if I'm missing it, but it seems like I did a complete research already.
So, Yes, you did find a finned LSD OEM Torsen. That has a nice touch.
Now you have to ask yourself the risk vs reward question. To use that finned case you have to swap the 350 pinion and set the depth and preload. If either is wrong you either get to do it over or buy a new set of gears as those will be damaged. If however, you want to take the low risk approach, your job is much easier and doable at home. Not that the other can't be done at home, it's just time consuming.
350 case and gears:
Pop the seals, pull the snap rings, remove the 350 ring gear and unbolt the ring. With a press or brass driver, tap around the ring to unseat it from the 350's open diff. The 350 case is ready for transplant.
- BUMMER - gotta go, Look at post 121 here... There is a lot to do before ripping the 350 out. Watch some videos on setting up a ring and pinion. https://www.clublexus.com/forums/bui...nce-diy-7.html #121
I'll be back
I've still got too many things going this weekend to finish the write up but I did find time to transform the crusty LKQ junkyard diff back to something presentable.
Sadly while draining the oil, a rather large metal shaving came out. I'm guessing that during its maiden voyage, it found the magnet and rolled through 90k miles before being coming out with the magnet yesterday. That said, the fluid looked pretty good for 90k miles.
Lots of elbow grease applied to de-rust crusty and get it prepped for paint. So, the current plan is to throw this in with the Figs poly bushings, and then install the OS Giken in my 2013 housing at my own speed as this is my DD. This method will lower the stress a good bit of playing beat the clock in my friends garage.
Before:
After:
So, thats^^ reason enough for me not to throw the LSD in this unit. It looks like drill or lathe curl from steel vs something from the cast iron housing as cast iron makes chips typically.
10-21-20, 09:29 AM
350 parts that fit
