Official Lexus RC thread
08-23-13, 08:43 PM
#376
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08-23-13, 08:50 PM
#377
Pole Position
That brings up another point : the lack of differentiation between the BMW M cars and the pedestrian 3 series/4 series/5 series
From this time forth, an M3/M4 will have the same number of engine cylinders as a 335i/435i and will seem no longer as special. Sure it's an over simplification but the potential M buyer will think : what's the point of an M4 when my 435i is also a boosted inline 6?
At least the previous gen M3 had a V8 to differentiate it from a 335i IL6. This gen won't even have the cylinder count to do that.
Even an M5/M6 is just a further tuned V8T as compared to a 550i/650i.
From this time forth, an M3/M4 will have the same number of engine cylinders as a 335i/435i and will seem no longer as special. Sure it's an over simplification but the potential M buyer will think : what's the point of an M4 when my 435i is also a boosted inline 6?
At least the previous gen M3 had a V8 to differentiate it from a 335i IL6. This gen won't even have the cylinder count to do that.
Even an M5/M6 is just a further tuned V8T as compared to a 550i/650i.
08-24-13, 02:05 AM
#378
feels like something is possibly lost in translation as thats a lot bigger diff than is300h in europe and japan...
(as of right now)
08-24-13, 02:12 AM
#379
08-24-13, 02:24 AM
#380
Pole Position
Well that's because X1-X3, GLA-GLK, Q3-Q5 are for people that want badged SUVs but are limited on the budget. CX-5 rules them all for the money.
08-24-13, 08:14 AM
#383
Lexus Test Driver
That brings up another point : the lack of differentiation between the BMW M cars and the pedestrian 3 series/4 series/5 series
From this time forth, an M3/M4 will have the same number of engine cylinders as a 335i/435i and will seem no longer as special. Sure it's an over simplification but the potential M buyer will think : what's the point of an M4 when my 435i is also a boosted inline 6?
At least the previous gen M3 had a V8 to differentiate it from a 335i IL6. This gen won't even have the cylinder count to do that.
Even an M5/M6 is just a further tuned V8T as compared to a 550i/650i.
From this time forth, an M3/M4 will have the same number of engine cylinders as a 335i/435i and will seem no longer as special. Sure it's an over simplification but the potential M buyer will think : what's the point of an M4 when my 435i is also a boosted inline 6?
At least the previous gen M3 had a V8 to differentiate it from a 335i IL6. This gen won't even have the cylinder count to do that.
Even an M5/M6 is just a further tuned V8T as compared to a 550i/650i.
E46 //M had a 6cyl just like the regular e46 330 of that generation.
Same with E39 //M5 - it had a v8 just like the 540i.
The //M engines have and always will be significantly different than the standard cars.
Believe me i also much rather see the new //M3-4 keep the v8.
//M cars have been about great balance and driving dynamics, not just engine.
The new chassis designations of F80/F82 for the M3/4 signal that they will be significantly different than the standard cars.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 08-25-13 at 04:46 AM.
08-24-13, 08:52 AM
#384
Pole Position
Time to put Lexus merely as a "value buy" firmly to bed. Lexus has proved with the new IS and GS that they can produce cars that can match or exceed the Germans in terms of dynamism and desirability. Buying for the sake of a badge just betrays insecurity and lack of due diligence.
08-24-13, 09:02 AM
#385
Pole Position
You are totally wrong and this shows a lack of knowledge of //M cars.
E46 //M had a 6cyl just like the regular e46 330 of that generation.
Same with E39 //M5 - it had a v8 just like the 540i.
The //M engines have and always will be significantly different than the standard cars.
Believe me i also much rather see the new //M3-4 keep the v8.
//M cars have been about great balance and driving dynamics, not just engine.
The new chassis designations of F80/F82 for the M3/4 signal that they will be significantly different than the standard cars.
E46 //M had a 6cyl just like the regular e46 330 of that generation.
Same with E39 //M5 - it had a v8 just like the 540i.
The //M engines have and always will be significantly different than the standard cars.
Believe me i also much rather see the new //M3-4 keep the v8.
//M cars have been about great balance and driving dynamics, not just engine.
The new chassis designations of F80/F82 for the M3/4 signal that they will be significantly different than the standard cars.
Yes, I get all that "heritage" talk about the IL6 but current M3 owners have by and large gotten used to the V8 and its attendant soundtrack in the current E90/E92 M3 and asking them to switch mindsets again to accept a downgrade of 2 cylinders is a major issue.
All the modifications in the world still can't mask the fact that the basic F30 chassis the M engineers are working from is significantly flawed when compared to and inferior to the new Lexus IS chassis. This is unlike the situation in the past for previous generation M3's which were wonderful because the donor 3-series chassis was already a wonderful world-beating driver's chassis right out of the box.
Right now, assuming the Lexus F-engineers maintain the momentum from the base IS engineering work, it's starting to look like the RC-F may well dethrone the M3/M4 as the de facto attainable performance luxury sedan. ( in terms of handling and driving enjoyment).
Last edited by natnut; 08-24-13 at 11:39 AM.
08-24-13, 09:43 AM
#386
But will the C63 handle as well and prove as rewarding to drive?
Time to put Lexus merely as a "value buy" firmly to bed. Lexus has proved with the new IS and GS that they can produce cars that can match or exceed the Germans in terms of dynamism and desirability. Buying for the sake of a badge just betrays insecurity and lack of due diligence.
On another note if the GS-F gets a V-10 that would be amazing.
Lexus is planning to take on the BMW M5 with a super-saloon version of the GS, powered by the LFA’s V10, and will follow up that car with a new SC aimed at the likes of the Mercedes SL.
The new SC will be unveiled in mid-2014, although the current car is due to finish production this July, leaving a four-year gap between the two cars. However, the next model will be a hybrid, powered by a 5.0-litre V8 and an electric motor driving the rear wheels only.
See Lexus GS pics
The high-performance GS-F saloon will arrive in 2013, with a detuned version of the LFA’s 4.8-litre V10.
Lexus engineers are working on reducing the engine’s capacity by around 200cc to 4.6 litres and power to 450bhp. The idea is to improve low-range torque, although even with the reduced power output the GS-F will become the most powerful road-going Japanese saloon ever built.
The GS-F will be fitted with Toyota’s first torque vectoring differential. Similar to the diff used on BMW’s M cars and the likes of the X6 SUV, the ‘torque split unit’ actively apportions drive between the rear wheels to aid handling. A similar system is also expected to be fitted to the new SC.
Before the new SC and GS-F arrive, Lexus will unveil its first hatchback at next month’s Geneva motor show.
The CT200h is a hybrid five-door and will go on sale in 2011. It’s based on the Prius platform but has been modified to provide a more sophisticated ride and handling; the Prius’s torsion beam rear suspension has been replaced by a double wishbone layout.
http://m.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-...-lfa-v10-power
08-24-13, 10:54 AM
#387
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Posts: n/a
^^^its funny how the internetz change on what Lexus does..
It used to be all that mattered was handling and **** everything else. People bashed Lexus.
Now Lexus makes cars that out handle the competition and the argument changes to "oh people don't track" or "backseat room is bad and it has no fog lamps"
The same points Lexus owners made in the past were belittled and torn apart and now today they are the same points made by others when Lexus beats their brand of choice in handling.
If the RC continues the new Lexus trend of best handling in class that is a huge point in this market. With what we are hearing its going to be one hell of a fun battle to be a part of.
People will pay. The prices people are quoting for Germans are base prices.
It used to be all that mattered was handling and **** everything else. People bashed Lexus.
Now Lexus makes cars that out handle the competition and the argument changes to "oh people don't track" or "backseat room is bad and it has no fog lamps"
The same points Lexus owners made in the past were belittled and torn apart and now today they are the same points made by others when Lexus beats their brand of choice in handling.
If the RC continues the new Lexus trend of best handling in class that is a huge point in this market. With what we are hearing its going to be one hell of a fun battle to be a part of.
People will pay. The prices people are quoting for Germans are base prices.
08-24-13, 11:03 AM
#388
Pole Position
Nissan actually got it right with GT-R pricing strategy.
GT-R was like $69,900 in 2008 and it everybody got hooked, year by year they were jacking the price up by few grand or close to 10 grand in 2010 and 2013. As the dust settles they know they cant sell that many cars so they go up with the price to try to accommodate low numbers, of course those price jacks are justified with performance upgrades every year.
IS-F had a similar story, low MSRP for first MY, jacking up the MSRP every year, improvements added every year but in the end result is quite opposite to GT-R.
From time to time I love to chat with folks selling their 2009 GT-R for like $65,000. I would offer them $50,000 and oh boy would they go off when I tell them that you cannot be asking the purchase MSRP for a car that is five years old
GT-R was like $69,900 in 2008 and it everybody got hooked, year by year they were jacking the price up by few grand or close to 10 grand in 2010 and 2013. As the dust settles they know they cant sell that many cars so they go up with the price to try to accommodate low numbers, of course those price jacks are justified with performance upgrades every year.
IS-F had a similar story, low MSRP for first MY, jacking up the MSRP every year, improvements added every year but in the end result is quite opposite to GT-R.
From time to time I love to chat with folks selling their 2009 GT-R for like $65,000. I would offer them $50,000 and oh boy would they go off when I tell them that you cannot be asking the purchase MSRP for a car that is five years old
08-24-13, 11:23 AM
#389
Nobody but extreme track enthusiasts will care about handling. For the average buyer seeing a fully loaded Merc C63 for the same price as a base RC-F they will buy the Merc every time. If Lexus doesn't sell this car for less than their German counterparts the RC-F won't sell well.
On another note if the GS-F gets a V-10 that would be amazing.
Lexus is planning to take on the BMW M5 with a super-saloon version of the GS, powered by the LFA’s V10, and will follow up that car with a new SC aimed at the likes of the Mercedes SL.
The new SC will be unveiled in mid-2014, although the current car is due to finish production this July, leaving a four-year gap between the two cars. However, the next model will be a hybrid, powered by a 5.0-litre V8 and an electric motor driving the rear wheels only.
See Lexus GS pics
The high-performance GS-F saloon will arrive in 2013, with a detuned version of the LFA’s 4.8-litre V10.
Lexus engineers are working on reducing the engine’s capacity by around 200cc to 4.6 litres and power to 450bhp. The idea is to improve low-range torque, although even with the reduced power output the GS-F will become the most powerful road-going Japanese saloon ever built.
The GS-F will be fitted with Toyota’s first torque vectoring differential. Similar to the diff used on BMW’s M cars and the likes of the X6 SUV, the ‘torque split unit’ actively apportions drive between the rear wheels to aid handling. A similar system is also expected to be fitted to the new SC.
Before the new SC and GS-F arrive, Lexus will unveil its first hatchback at next month’s Geneva motor show.
The CT200h is a hybrid five-door and will go on sale in 2011. It’s based on the Prius platform but has been modified to provide a more sophisticated ride and handling; the Prius’s torsion beam rear suspension has been replaced by a double wishbone layout.
http://m.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-...-lfa-v10-power
On another note if the GS-F gets a V-10 that would be amazing.
Lexus is planning to take on the BMW M5 with a super-saloon version of the GS, powered by the LFA’s V10, and will follow up that car with a new SC aimed at the likes of the Mercedes SL.
The new SC will be unveiled in mid-2014, although the current car is due to finish production this July, leaving a four-year gap between the two cars. However, the next model will be a hybrid, powered by a 5.0-litre V8 and an electric motor driving the rear wheels only.
See Lexus GS pics
The high-performance GS-F saloon will arrive in 2013, with a detuned version of the LFA’s 4.8-litre V10.
Lexus engineers are working on reducing the engine’s capacity by around 200cc to 4.6 litres and power to 450bhp. The idea is to improve low-range torque, although even with the reduced power output the GS-F will become the most powerful road-going Japanese saloon ever built.
The GS-F will be fitted with Toyota’s first torque vectoring differential. Similar to the diff used on BMW’s M cars and the likes of the X6 SUV, the ‘torque split unit’ actively apportions drive between the rear wheels to aid handling. A similar system is also expected to be fitted to the new SC.
Before the new SC and GS-F arrive, Lexus will unveil its first hatchback at next month’s Geneva motor show.
The CT200h is a hybrid five-door and will go on sale in 2011. It’s based on the Prius platform but has been modified to provide a more sophisticated ride and handling; the Prius’s torsion beam rear suspension has been replaced by a double wishbone layout.
http://m.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-...-lfa-v10-power
this is obviously an old and debunked article
08-24-13, 11:26 AM
#390
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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Nobody but extreme track enthusiasts will care about handling. For the average buyer seeing a fully loaded Merc C63 for the same price as a base RC-F they will buy the Merc every time. If Lexus doesn't sell this car for less than their German counterparts the RC-F won't sell well.
On another note if the GS-F gets a V-10 that would be amazing.
Lexus is planning to take on the BMW M5 with a super-saloon version of the GS, powered by the LFA’s V10, and will follow up that car with a new SC aimed at the likes of the Mercedes SL.
The new SC will be unveiled in mid-2014, although the current car is due to finish production this July, leaving a four-year gap between the two cars. However, the next model will be a hybrid, powered by a 5.0-litre V8 and an electric motor driving the rear wheels only.
See Lexus GS pics
The high-performance GS-F saloon will arrive in 2013, with a detuned version of the LFA’s 4.8-litre V10.
Lexus engineers are working on reducing the engine’s capacity by around 200cc to 4.6 litres and power to 450bhp. The idea is to improve low-range torque, although even with the reduced power output the GS-F will become the most powerful road-going Japanese saloon ever built.
The GS-F will be fitted with Toyota’s first torque vectoring differential. Similar to the diff used on BMW’s M cars and the likes of the X6 SUV, the ‘torque split unit’ actively apportions drive between the rear wheels to aid handling. A similar system is also expected to be fitted to the new SC.
Before the new SC and GS-F arrive, Lexus will unveil its first hatchback at next month’s Geneva motor show.
The CT200h is a hybrid five-door and will go on sale in 2011. It’s based on the Prius platform but has been modified to provide a more sophisticated ride and handling; the Prius’s torsion beam rear suspension has been replaced by a double wishbone layout.
http://m.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-...-lfa-v10-power
Lexus is planning to take on the BMW M5 with a super-saloon version of the GS, powered by the LFA’s V10, and will follow up that car with a new SC aimed at the likes of the Mercedes SL.
The new SC will be unveiled in mid-2014, although the current car is due to finish production this July, leaving a four-year gap between the two cars. However, the next model will be a hybrid, powered by a 5.0-litre V8 and an electric motor driving the rear wheels only.
See Lexus GS pics
The high-performance GS-F saloon will arrive in 2013, with a detuned version of the LFA’s 4.8-litre V10.
Lexus engineers are working on reducing the engine’s capacity by around 200cc to 4.6 litres and power to 450bhp. The idea is to improve low-range torque, although even with the reduced power output the GS-F will become the most powerful road-going Japanese saloon ever built.
The GS-F will be fitted with Toyota’s first torque vectoring differential. Similar to the diff used on BMW’s M cars and the likes of the X6 SUV, the ‘torque split unit’ actively apportions drive between the rear wheels to aid handling. A similar system is also expected to be fitted to the new SC.
Before the new SC and GS-F arrive, Lexus will unveil its first hatchback at next month’s Geneva motor show.
The CT200h is a hybrid five-door and will go on sale in 2011. It’s based on the Prius platform but has been modified to provide a more sophisticated ride and handling; the Prius’s torsion beam rear suspension has been replaced by a double wishbone layout.
http://m.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-...-lfa-v10-power
. imo the GSF will most likely serve as the 4 door version of the RCF. i cant see them selling both a ISF and GSF. GSF has more everything and anyone who wants a super saloon would probably choose the GSF over the ISF. there's really no point in selling the ISF anymore if the GSF is around. the SC/LF-LC imo will be based heavily on the RCF. probably different styling and different engines (V8 hybrid? V8TT?) but not extremely different under the skin. if the rumors are true, the RCF itself is way cool enough to be a halo car for lexus. so the SC just needs to be a RCF on steroids in terms of style (LF-LC styling) and power (super hybrid or V8TT as seen on the LS650 project car).