ydooby

No one said the GS-F has to have 550hp, but most agree that it needs to have at least 500hp to be considered in the same realm as its competition--that's just how the segment is. The C-segment super sedans on the other hand are still in the realm of 41x to 450hp right now, so the new M3 having 42x hp is still fine for the segment.

spwolf

plenty of people here said that it has to have hp numbers and that actual performance does not matter that much.

So if for M3, +-50hp doesnt matter, why should it matter for GS-F?

In reality, it matters for both anyway. People care about the numbers when they pay the price.

natnut

Difference being that Toyota made the Supra engine. BMW made the N54 3L turbo in the 2010 335i that had fuel pump failures triggering a mass recall.

Lexuslvr91

According to the article posted on the upcoming M4 it will have 424 hp but will weigh 700 lbs less than the current C63 AMG and 500 lbs less than the current IS-F. It also has the benefit of a much higher torque curve relative to a naturally aspirated engine producing similar power. So the M4 will have a very low power to weight ratio. The GS-F would need to weigh 3440 lbs to match the power to weight ratio of the BMW M5 given this 450 hp rumor.

spwolf

so if GS-F weights 3500lbs with 465hp engine, what happens then?

Also, didnt the IS-F have a lot more torque compared to M3 ? Those torque curves vs IS-F wont look like vs old M3. It seems like IS-F had 30% more torque already.

If Lexus manages to keep the weight down, and they seem to be doing well with GS so far, and up the power of V8, it will be quite comparable to M3 and possibly M5.

ydooby

It's a psychological thing. It's not about +-50hp, but about being in the "500's" realm. The first digit matters, much like how people like to say a car must have at least a "sub-4-second" 0-60mph acceleration time to be called a supercar. The number "4" here means very little in math and stats, but is actually a significant psychological barrier for people to identify a car with. It's a convenient and therefore important way for people to perceive to which segment a car belongs. If the GS-F has horsepower only in the "400's", then it'll be next to impossible to market the car as a peer to the likes of the M5, E63 and RS6, all of which have horsepower in the "500's". That's just how the market works.

Vladi

Do you really believe that M4 will weight under 3300lb in base spec trim priced at 70k?

It might weight that much with some insane strip down club racer package or if its base msrp will be set around 100k price range.

TF109B

Motortrend said that was dry weight, of the European model. I doubt it'll be any less than 3450lbs. Don't forget the rumors of the "carbon fiber" package on the RC. Will be interesting to see the weight of that.

zema

Source: http://lexusenthusiast.com/2013/09/2...ook-like-this/

spwolf

i like those pics a lot better than old ones... that looks good, including headlights.

edgeucated

iTrader: (4)

same here. The lines look softer, more finesse. Still wouldn't say pretty though, but its better.

Those exhausts diffusers can't be the real thing though, the older ISF oval tips look much better than small circular ones

TangoRed

Just a note- it's not a tri-turbo. It's also got an intense cooling system. They're not messing around.

Fuel pump does not equal cooling issues. They've done just fine cooling their twin turbo motors in the past, this one should be no different.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

yea you need a mean cooling system to cool 19 psi of boost. 3300# is way too optimistic, more like 3500. 1 Series can barely keep it near 3300#

madfast

on the M4 the CF roof is said to save 13 lbs and CF trunk saves 11 lbs. on the E92 the CF roof was said to save 11 lbs vs a steel roof. CF is mainly for bling and bragging rights. an aluminum roof/hood/trunk is all you really need. lets hope lexus keeps the price reasonable by staying away from CF and goes with aluminum...

ydooby

Not just for bling, but the M4 actually has a CF drive shaft. Now that's something you usually see only on an exotic.