View Poll Results: Who Tracks Their 2UR?
Yes RCF TVD
7
33.33%
Yes RCF LSD
3
14.29%
No....I was never good at Gran Turismo
9
42.86%
I used to not any more
2
9.52%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll
Who takes their car to the track?
09-20-23, 04:17 PM
#31
Racer
Thread Starter
That is not Fuji circuit actually. It is in China called Lihpao circuit. This is an example with a Finnish pro rally driver Heikki Kovalainen with a passenger doing what seems to be a 1:59 in a standard RCF (Apparently, Heikki still was holding back according to the video owner).
RCF in FSW Heikki Kovalainen driving - YouTube
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09-21-23, 03:15 PM
#33
Racer
Thread Starter
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cvt (09-24-23)
09-22-23, 07:56 AM
#35
Not OP, but tried the M3 and M4 out at Sonoma last year for BMW M Day. Both were the Comp trim.
The M4 was planted on every corner and felt super confident. Car was on rails, but felt so safe.
The M3 was a buck on the corner. Super fun to drive because the rear would kick out ever so often when taking the corner aggressively even with TRAC on.
I’ve always thought BMWs were overrated, but after that event, I understood why they were so coveted. I would say the RC F is more closely aligned with the M4 than the M3.
The M4 was planted on every corner and felt super confident. Car was on rails, but felt so safe.
The M3 was a buck on the corner. Super fun to drive because the rear would kick out ever so often when taking the corner aggressively even with TRAC on.
I’ve always thought BMWs were overrated, but after that event, I understood why they were so coveted. I would say the RC F is more closely aligned with the M4 than the M3.
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cvt (09-22-23)
09-25-23, 05:20 AM
#37
Agreed having completed all aspects of M school the RWDM4 if compared would be closest aligned wise to a RCF-Non TVD ( ie no artificial push ) although I would say the G82 TQ curve is quite beastly out of turns. Besides some overheating issues I experienced with the G82 they are amazing cars in their own right. The AWD iterations are GTR level insanity on a track. Did you get video of your runs? Love seeing F cars out there doing the damn thing!! Living through you at this time 
Last edited by rblover69; 09-25-23 at 05:27 AM.
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UFOHunter (09-25-23)
09-25-23, 06:33 AM
#38
Lexus Test Driver
Agreed having completed all aspects of M school the RWDM4 if compared would be closest aligned wise to a RCF-Non TVD ( ie no artificial push ) although I would say the G82 TQ curve is quite beastly out of turns. Besides some overheating issues I experienced with the G82 they are amazing cars in their own right. The AWD iterations are GTR level insanity on a track. Did you get video of your runs? Love seeing F cars out there doing the damn thing!! Living through you at this time
I have posted the data and documents on it before. Rotation is the reason why TVD RCF circled the skid pad at nearly 1.00g sustained average because the nose circles so eagerly following the line on the skid pad despite having smaller front tires. "Push" is referred to understeer when the front turns wide and you don't follow your racing line.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 09-25-23 at 07:22 AM.
09-25-23, 08:10 AM
#39
FYI, there is no such thing as an "artificial push" in TVD. "Push" refers to understeer. it does the exact opposite. Whatever your subjective opinions are on it, just stating facts here. TVD makes the car more rear-biased balance by making the car oversteer more easily and inhibit understeer. I can balance my RCF TVD on throttle extremely easily by just using throttle and steering without every touching brakes hence carrying more speed through turn. No need to fighting the car and it also makes the car feel very compact.
I have posted the data and documents on it before. Rotation is the reason why TVD RCF circled the skid pad at nearly 1.00g sustained average because the nose circles so eagerly following the line on the skid pad despite having small front tires. "Push" is referred to understeer when the front turns wide and you don't follow your racing line.
I have posted the data and documents on it before. Rotation is the reason why TVD RCF circled the skid pad at nearly 1.00g sustained average because the nose circles so eagerly following the line on the skid pad despite having small front tires. "Push" is referred to understeer when the front turns wide and you don't follow your racing line.
To explain my statement.
We are comparing a M4s drivings characteristics to an RCF. Have you tracked a M4CP by any chance? That was the point of the comparison and my experience on them both. Im not trying to convince anyone so I quite dont understand your attempt here to correct when there is no correction possible.
Let's assume you did the reason for term "Push" is the sensation I got when driving a TVD RCF in a turn in its Track setting which in my view feels artificial when the electronic motor engages the clutch pack and distributes power. In my view the perception of when the torque is transferred to the half shaft through the electric motor is not as satisfying or as consistent as the Torsen. Of course it's designed to be seamless but driving many cars in my view its in my view provides a very artificial feeling and is extremely noticeable. I prefer the Torsens more expected approach to power distribution. The manner of how the delivery of tq to the wheel is my issue with the TVD in a turn. If compared to a M active diff which behaves in my view very predictably behaves to a higher degree more like an Torsen on especially when trying to excite the vehicle in a turn. It's very important to drive the cars to compare the experience rather than the internet copy & paste as you're really great at.
Although I personally am not a fan of the TVD and believe weight negates its benefits and its driving characteristics are not as driver-centric in terms of mechanical feel. There is a reason Lexus is moving away from TVD and I believe thats the nail in the coffin with that parts life cycle. Maybe a new TVD will solve its issues and be a better product for my taste as M Active differentials have evolved through time. However with hybrid motors now on the rise I personally think the current iteration of the TVD will die with the RCF in my view.
To put it frank I wouldve never bought a RCF had TVD been the only option with the car. I would've stayed M. But to the other persons post before we highjack M4s def more inline driving wise with a Torsen than TVD in my view barnone.
Your results may vary. But I tend to agree with those like David Yansens who prefer Torsen over TVD and many others on YT that I watch do for the same reason.
At the end of the day it's just what I enjoy and like vs what others like and enjoy and thats the difference here.
Cheers mate.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 09-25-23 at 09:07 AM. Reason: Removed personal comments not needed. I pmd & no action taken so did myself
09-25-23, 08:32 AM
#40
Lexus Test Driver
My own experience is (and backed by objective facts), the LSD makes the front end feel clumsy, tons of understeer and it pushes constantly wide while the RCF (according to my experience on auto cross) constantly is eager to follow exactly the racing line and oversteer easily balancing on throttle. It is simple physics.
Regarding people who have owned BOTH, pretty much all of them prefer TVD. You can go check Huangbro's channel who owned both and he did a video on it.
It is a 100% fact LSD makes you understeer way more. it is a much more reactive system than proactive system where you are constantly fighting the car to correct the line while TVD makes the car behave exactly the way the user wishes it to proactively following the exact racing line and carrying more speed as a result. Numbers don't lie.
The GSF was a huge car and long wheelbase cars want to drive straight and not eager to turn, but because of how TVD makes a car shrink around the driver. Lexus got around its size by not fitting it with LSD and going with just TVD. That is why GSF never came with an LSD because with such a long wheelbase, it would feel clumsy and want to constantly drive straight. The reason why GSF was praised for feeling much smaller than it actually was, due to TVD reducing the effective wheelbase of the car.
Regarding people who have owned BOTH, pretty much all of them prefer TVD. You can go check Huangbro's channel who owned both and he did a video on it.
It is a 100% fact LSD makes you understeer way more. it is a much more reactive system than proactive system where you are constantly fighting the car to correct the line while TVD makes the car behave exactly the way the user wishes it to proactively following the exact racing line and carrying more speed as a result. Numbers don't lie.
The GSF was a huge car and long wheelbase cars want to drive straight and not eager to turn, but because of how TVD makes a car shrink around the driver. Lexus got around its size by not fitting it with LSD and going with just TVD. That is why GSF never came with an LSD because with such a long wheelbase, it would feel clumsy and want to constantly drive straight. The reason why GSF was praised for feeling much smaller than it actually was, due to TVD reducing the effective wheelbase of the car.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 09-25-23 at 08:56 AM. Reason: Same reason
09-25-23, 08:39 AM
#41
Your insults and derogatory comments aside, I would not stoop to that level. My own experience is (and backed by objective facts), the LSD makes the front end feel clumsy, tons of understeer and it pushes constantly wide while the RCF (according to my experience on auto cross) constantly is eager to follow exactly the racing line and oversteer. It is simple physics.
Regarding people who have owned BOTH, pretty much all of them prefer TVD. You can go check Huangbro's channel who owned both.
It is a 100% fact LSD makes you understeer way more. it is a much more reactive system than proactive system where you are constantly fighting the car to correct the line while TVD makes the car behave exactly the way the user wishes it to proactively Numbers don't lie. The GSF was a huge car and long wheelbase cars want to drive straight and not eager to turn, but because of how TVD makes a car shrink around the driver. Lexus got around its size by not fitting it with LSD and going with just TVD. That is why GSF never came with an LSD because with such a long wheelbase, it would feel clumsy and want to constantly drive straight. The reason why GSF was praised for feeling much smaller than it actually was, due to TVD reducing the effective wheelbase of the car.
Regarding people who have owned BOTH, pretty much all of them prefer TVD. You can go check Huangbro's channel who owned both.
It is a 100% fact LSD makes you understeer way more. it is a much more reactive system than proactive system where you are constantly fighting the car to correct the line while TVD makes the car behave exactly the way the user wishes it to proactively Numbers don't lie. The GSF was a huge car and long wheelbase cars want to drive straight and not eager to turn, but because of how TVD makes a car shrink around the driver. Lexus got around its size by not fitting it with LSD and going with just TVD. That is why GSF never came with an LSD because with such a long wheelbase, it would feel clumsy and want to constantly drive straight. The reason why GSF was praised for feeling much smaller than it actually was, due to TVD reducing the effective wheelbase of the car.
Im from NYC we call that a conversation as I would say it to your face in the same manner and smile. I dont need the lyrics from you as I just left church yesterday and it was quite riveting brethren with all due its not that important to me what others enjoy with their money. I can just tell you no TVD for me it was not to my liking and I hope they come out with a better vectoring diff in the future however it think its DOA with the RCF.
Thats all I got for you. M4CP more Torsen like than TVD in my view. End of story.
Last edited by rblover69; 09-25-23 at 08:45 AM.
09-25-23, 08:41 AM
#42
Racer
Thread Starter
FYI, there is no such thing as an "artificial push" in TVD. "Push" refers to understeer. it does the exact opposite. Whatever your subjective opinions are on it, just stating facts here. TVD makes the car more rear-biased balance by making the car oversteer more easily and inhibit understeer. I can balance my RCF TVD on throttle extremely easily by just using throttle and steering without every touching brakes hence carrying more speed through turn. No need to fight the car and it also makes the car feel very compact.
I have posted the data and documents on it before. Rotation is the reason why TVD RCF circled the skid pad at nearly 1.00g sustained average because the nose circles so eagerly following the line on the skid pad despite having smaller front tires. "Push" is referred to understeer when the front turns wide and you don't follow your racing line.
I have posted the data and documents on it before. Rotation is the reason why TVD RCF circled the skid pad at nearly 1.00g sustained average because the nose circles so eagerly following the line on the skid pad despite having smaller front tires. "Push" is referred to understeer when the front turns wide and you don't follow your racing line.
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07LXgs350 (09-25-23)
09-25-23, 08:49 AM
#43
Bingo!!! Thank you good sir.
Example: When I say Track Out for instance I dont correct ASAP a person and say "the track is actually not out of service or out on PTO" actually its the process in which the car is guided to the outside is called “tracking out” LMAO.
All love man. Anyways on a more important note CVT did you get video dude of those runs? Im still DOA with my Fuji so im living through you guys man until I can get my car in order from Lexus.
09-25-23, 08:56 AM
#44
Racer
Thread Starter
Bingo!!! Thank you good sir.
Example: When I say Track Out for instance I dont correct ASAP a person and say "the track is actually not out of service or out on PTO" actually its the process in which the car is guided to the outside is called “tracking out” LMAO.
All love man. Anyways on a more important note CVT did you get video dude of those runs? Im still DOA with my Fuji so im living through you guys man until I can get my car in order from Lexus.
Example: When I say Track Out for instance I dont correct ASAP a person and say "the track is actually not out of service or out on PTO" actually its the process in which the car is guided to the outside is called “tracking out” LMAO.
All love man. Anyways on a more important note CVT did you get video dude of those runs? Im still DOA with my Fuji so im living through you guys man until I can get my car in order from Lexus.