rider355

Hello, I'm Henry. I'm a hardcore Sports Car driver. All my cars are and have been Manual Transmission (MT). Until recently, I never thought I would think about getting a comfortable, Automatic, old-age-friendly cruiser. Somehow, I woke up to the reality, at some point, either mine or wife's body or both could become unsuitable for low-slung sports cars. If or when that happens, we would only have hybrids and electrics around; I'm in mid-50s. I'm a gas-monkey! Yes, I care about the Planet; do my fair share. But, performance cars and sports cars make up a very small fraction of the automotive market. That's my rational anyway.

So, I'm planning to add a Grand Tourer (GT) to my mini for-ever collection. It should be reliable and old-age friendly. Reasonably fun to drive; but, not sports-car-fun. I’ve other cars for those use cases. Should have comfortable driving experience. Will be used for super-long road trips; think multi-month trips. Being automatic, wife can drive as well, so that she wouldn't be bored.

I’m seriously considering RC F. Seen and read a ton of reviews. Love the NA V8. It's long model-life and old-school design are huge plus, in terms of build quality and reliability. Oh, I love the fact it has CD Player! Yeah, I'm that guy…..!

Have a bunch of questions. To start of, a few:
- How bad is the transmission in Normal and Eco modes and below 4k? This is the #1 universal complaint. I read/heard it is jerky, choppy and downright awful. When not driving spiritedly in Sport+ with Manual mode, a poor transmission will ruin the sedate, calm driving experience.
- How easy is to get in and out? Do you see yourself keeping this car as you get older? Yes, everone ages differently. For reference, me and wife are fit, slim and work out everyday. I’m hoping this would have better ingress/egress than a Porsche.
- Is it possible to disable ASC in all modes, especially Sport+ mode? As a Purist, I totally detest any kind of sound piped-in, real or synthetic.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to test-drive one given the lack of supply. My timeframe is next summer.

Thanks.

05RollaXRS

Welcome. I believe, your perception of RCF is actually quite different from reality. Since you have other high performance cars, if you are looking for a GT cruiser that can be very comfortable for the long distance, easy to get in and out and also be performance oriented then there are better choices out there to meet your needs as RCF is not quite that car.

Here are some reasons to explain myself further:

- RCF is more of mix of high-performance/track-oriented/luxury GT car. That means, it splits the difference between a track oriented car you can take to the race track over the weekends with all of the hardware including cooling systems, big brakes, TVD (optional) etc. while also doing reasonable daily trips with luxury, practicality of a 2 + 2 car and a decent trunk (I can easily take my wife and two little kids in baby seats, a stroller in the RCF). My wife really enjoys trips in RCF with the practicality and two baby seats in the rear, but does note all the time as to how stiff the car is.


- Following the previous point, it has all of the track oriented hardware, which is:

- A stiff chassis that was the design for the coupled with aggressively tuned damper valving/spring rates etc. to give good body control when turning aggressively especially through esses etc. The downside of that, my RCF does feel somewhat choppy and harsh when going over poorly paved roads. Granted I was not happy with the OEM tires and went with far more aggressive shoulder profile for sublime body control. I literally cannot move the car one cm, if I put my hand on the side of the roof and try to rock the car (I can bench press 200+ lbs so I am not a weakling).

- Following the previous point, you can make the ride more comfortable with some softer and more comfort oriented tires, but then it is a heavy car at 4000 lbs so having a fast car with good body control is compromised by weaker sidewalls. Though, if you buy an RCF that is 2017+, it comes with F-Tuned AVS where you can have comfort settings in ECO/NORMAL/SPORT and then stiff in SPORT+. My RCF has the fixed dampers that the 2015 - 2016 came with and my IS350 F-Sport has AVS, I don't like AVS at all. I just don't know how it is going to behave. My IS350 F-Sport feels randomly floaty. I understand 2017+ RCF has the full F-tuned AVS that is completely different from my IS350 F-Sport AVS dampers, but the sheer unpredictability makes me prefer something that is stiff all the time.

- RCF has very thick doorsills (due to beams running for chassis rigidity) and also the floor is very low. Ground clearance is just 5 inches and the height is only 54 inches. So, the seat is pretty far away from the door and very low. I am in my early 40s and have no issues getting in and out, but definitely with the high bolstered seats, thick doorsills and low floor, it might be tough for someone with joint issues.

- RCF is my hobby/fun/track oriented so I never drive it in anything less than SPORT+ and MANUAL mode, but the few times I drove it in ECO/SPORT/NORMAL mode, the transmission does not feel good at all. It is not horrible or bad, but it is just not that good. It is OK, but definitely slow to react and some jerkiness. In SPORT+ with MANUAL mode, it completely wakes up and transforms into something else.

- Yes, some people have disabled ASC by pulling the fuse. I personally like the ASC as it is a very minimal addition and with an aftermarket exhaust, ASC ensures I can hear the intake growl and not completely get drowned by the screaming noise coming from the exhaust.

Ab175

I think the RCF is a great GT car. I put 20k (primarily highway) miles on mine while I had it and it was very comfortable. The transmission in normal mode WHEN LEFT IN AUTOMATIC is buttery smooth like a luxury car. If you put it in manual mode under 4k rpm in normal mode, you have to understand the shift logic and transmission behavior in order for it to not be a jerky mess. Best to just leave it in auto unless you are driving hard IMO. The RCF is a fair bit higher off the ground than 911/718, and I never had issues getting in and out of it. Not sure about the ASC but if your exhaust is loud enough you won’t be able to hear it anyway lol

I’d recommend watching this video to get an idea of how it drives in different circumstances.

https://youtu.be/8Ij2YCv8NiQ?si=yYW7uXQpDsbuZLnt

brendanf

1. Transmission is pretty much the same in all modes. It is really about how much you have your foot in it when it is time to shift. If you have it to the floor the shifts are quick. If your at part throttle the shifts are a bit slower. Where the trans STINKS is when it has to shift down to get more oomph. It can't go from 6th to 2nd for that freeway merging type acceleration. It has to go 6-5-4-3-2 and that takes time so the downshifts are horrible if in auto (especially at part throttle). If you put it in manual you can control them easily enough and with a few clicks of the paddle it is much faster since your deciding and not the ECM.
2. For getting in and out, I am 48, 220lbs and 5'10. So not the skinniest or in best shape but I have no trouble. I actually slide the seat back nearly all the way, place my left hand on the door sill, throw my left leg out and use my arm to lift my butt out of the seat. For me it is more about getting around the bolstering in the seat without wearing it out the material.
3. Depending on year, I believe there is an option to disable the ASC. The early models your stuck with it but I believe in 2018 or so they added a button to turn it off.
4. As for comfort, it is subjective since everyone is different. I have a bad back and with the seat adjusted properly (for me) I don't get tired or sore sitting in the car. The ventilation for the seats is meh unless they improved it in later models I'm not sure.
5. Try and get a late model as the infotainment was greatly improved.

rider355

Thanks, 05RollaXRS. Appreciate the deailed response.

Besides the aggressive tires, did you make any other change that could impact the ride quality? All the reviews I read mentioned it is softly-sprung even in Sport+ mode, as compared to, say, M4.

I would leave the car in stock-specs, including tires, except, probably, the cat-back exhaust.

Didn't know about wide door sills and seat position bit away from sills. Yes, these would be hard for aging knees and back! Reminds me of Elise's super wide sills. I had to sit on the sill and slide in and out. Would you be able to post a couple of pictures of the sill, please? One from the top and other from the low-side. Appreciate it.

Glad to hear ASC can be turned off by pulling the fuse! One less issue to consider.

I considered the following models:
- IS 500. But, the problems of front bumper sagging and even worse transmission programming keeping me away. Can't believe Lexus couldn't fix the bumper issue.
- LC 500. 10-Speed sounds too many gears. Most owners don't seem to be driving it spiritedly. When driven so, lack of trans cooler causing the tranny to overheat. Couple of reviewers hustled it through canyons and found the issue. No Thanks! JDM model received trans cooler which indicates Lexus is not doing the right thing for our market.

So, what other GT cars would you consider? BMW, Mercedes and Audi can't seem to be able to match Lexus's reliability. Porsche's non-sports cars have sketchy reliability track record. I say this as a very long time Porschephile, though my experience is limited to it's sports cars.

Admittedly, my preference for RC F is driven by wishful thinking. Just trying to find a reason to get a NA V8! I need to wake up and analyze this rationally and objectively!


Thanks, Ab175. Glad to hear you find the RC F to be a comfortable GT.

I understand what you’re saying about the transmission logic. Seems like it is manageable.

Comparing the ride height to 911/718 is very useful. Glad to hear RC F sits higher. I've couple of Spyders (981 and 982/718). Even the Miata (Grand Touring) sits higher than the Spyders. Even a couple of inches of increased height will make a difference. However, will that be enough for an agening body is something I need to think through….!

Thanks for sharing the review video. Good review and informative.


Thanks brendanf.

Transmission’s programming shortfalls could be managed, it seems. Switching to Sport+ and Manual mode in all but cruising might be the way to go.

Getting in/out: I follow the exact same process as you do! This process saves the seat bolster as you noted. More importantly, no stress on the knees and back.

If I decide to get, it'll be MY25 which I believe is the last MY for the V8 models.


Thanks again gentlemen.

05RollaXRS

No, tires only. I even considered Cup 2 tires, but then dropped back to high load rated PS4S. Body roll is my pet peeve as it gets int he way of sharp/direct feel of steering wheel connected directly to the response of the chassis. I did not buy an expensive high performance car that rolls a lot. With my IS350 F-Sport, as great a sport sedan as it is, even in SPORT+ it has a lot of roll/pitch/dive, but I am very happy my RCF is perceptibly flat under hard acceleration, deceleration and turning. The tires are the main cause of that softness reviewers talked about. It dramatically changed with just swapping the tires. The dampers and springs are actually very stiff. I cannot rock it one inch at rest and that is with me being capable of bench pressing (pushing movement) of 200+ lbs for a couple of reps. The OEM tires were also good as long as you did not start tossing the 4000 lbs weight around like crazy and the inertia + mass combined eventually would take a toll on the weak sidewalls.

There is a lot that goes into the overall stiffness of a car. It is an aggregation of tires, suspension, chassis, bushings etc. Some reviewers like Edmunds called RCF too stiff (I believe, it was due to worn out tires). There is some truth to F82 M4 being stiffer than the RCF. A lot of it is because the rear subframe was bolted directly on to the chassis without rubber bushings. It made harshness propagate directly into the cabin. Also, RCF is about 400 lbs heavier than its most direct rival, the F82 M4. The F82 M4 came with more aggressive version of PSS than the RCF's OEM PSS. Still, you would see Randy Pobst was pulling about the same Gs in the turns with RCF and M4.

You can see in the picture below where the OEM front sidewall of my RCF completely collapsed under a switchback/U-turn. Lack of front camber also makes the car use the front inner/outer sidewalls excessively.





I will take a few pictures next time I go downstairs in the garage


I would think LC500 would be the best fit since it is a big luxury GT performance car. I saw one just yesterday and could not believe how big it was in real life. Suspension is very compliant being a GT car. However, it does have similar ride height at around 54 inches so it is pretty low to the ground as well like the RCF, which maybe in an issue for you.

LC500 would have been my pick for a luxury, GT car, but LC500 is also very low to the ground so getting in and out would be similar story to the RCF.

RCF is a great choice (I own one so obviously I would be biased). However, hopefully you can make a decision that is right for you and meets your requirements

rider355

Thanks man, really appreciate the deailed response. You're thorough!

Yes, tires make a huge difference. Pilot Sport is an excellent balance of dry and wet weather performances. A better alternative to Cup 2 is Dunlop Sport Maxx Race 2. I run them on 718 Spyder. These provide reasonable low temp performance, unlike Cup 2; driven in low 30s ambient with surprising grip. Within reason, of course. Haven't driven in rain though.

As you know, LC is based on LS 500. So, almost matches in size. I read here as well as elsewhere, RC F is better for ingress/egress than LC. If next year's (final year) LC gets trans cooler, I would be tempted. However, as an old-age-friendly car, may not be a wise move.

I sat inside LS and LC. I felt like I was sitting inside a cloud! They felt incredibly comfortable. I have never sat on such a comfortable seat before; ever! LS seems like a great choice. However, it's back seats are incredibly well made, like a tailored suit and super luxurious. But, I barely need back seats, with very occasional use. So, I would hate to waste such an exquisite comfort and style for luggage (during road trips)!

If Cayenne had better reliability track record, the refreshed GTS would be great choice. But, as a for-ever car, doubtful. General consensus seems to be dump it (like Macan) before the warranty runs out!

Will be looking at upcoming refreshed RS3 and check how easy it would be to get in/out.

If only Lexus had fixed the damn bumper issue in IS 500…..!

Your RC F looks super cool in that shade! I love vivid colors.

Thanks again.

05RollaXRS

Thanks very much. Really appreciate it. As promised, here is a picture I took of the doorsill. All of my other cars including my IS350 F-Sport has way thinner doorsills. Cheers!

rider355

Awesome; thanks a lot, @05RollaXRS ; appreciate it. The width of the sill looks pretty standard. Would you know if the RC F has the same sill as standard RC? If so, it might be easier to find a sample to sit in to get a feel.

05RollaXRS

It is actually very wide relative to my other cars. The foot needs to extend quite a lot to reach the floor of the car in the interior (where the carpet is). You can see from the distance where the black mat is (that is where the floor is) to the distance on the right where you can see the garage concrete surface.

I am not exactly sure about the base RC model as to whether it is about the same width or narrower. I drove an RC350 F-Sport way back in 2015 in a shopping mall test drive event (back to back with an IS350 F-Sport, which I own now), but don't exactly remember if the leg had to reach as far as it does with my RCF. Cheers!

rider355

Got it. Thanks a lot, @05RollaXRS ; highly appreciate your detailed responses. Super helpful. Will think this through. Would have additional questions; will post later. Thanks again. cheers.

jim2527

Everything asked about and answered on subjective.

Test drive: Drive any RC. They’re all the same but with different trim levels and packages. A 200t or 350 will tell you everything you need to know.

GT: Sure, I drive mine like a GT and it suits the bill. If you want a real GT get a SRT 392 Challenger.

Tires: All season tires will work fine. Gordon Murray specs the T.50 with AS tires because, (paraphrase) “that’s all most people need”

Comfort: I live in Tampa with good roads so my view is skewed.

Getting in: Subjective. It’s similar to a Camaro, better than a Mustang, worse than Corvette, about the same as a Cayman and worse than a Challenger.

Trans: It’s fine. Sport+ puts it in 2 lower gears than eco or standard mode. Passing on the highway can be lackluster in eco and standard mode. It does have a ‘kick down switch’ but you need to bury the pedal into the floor to activate it.

GT’s… some out of the box: Challenger 392, Camaro SS, Camaro ZL1, Cayman, Chrysler 300 392, Grand Cherokee SRT, Maserati GT, Alfa Romeo 4 leaf, Audi S8, Mercedes SL 550 and the list goes on

rider355

Thanks a lot, @jim2527 . Appreciate the details.

Yes, will do a demo drive in a RC.

Yes, for the kind of use cases it is intended for, stock tires would be fine.

If getting-in is same as Cayman, for example, then for an ageing body, might be an issue!

Trans: I forgot to ask: Does it blip when downshifting in any of the modes, espcially in Sport and Sport+? I read IS 500 doesn't. Same person mentioned RC F is same as well: no rev-matching when downshifting.

GTs: Didn't think of cars like Cayman, Camaro ZL1 as GTs….!

Thanks again.

05RollaXRS

Drive only the RC350 F-Sport possibly with the optional RWS (rear wheel steering) and not the lower trim as they are anemic. I have a 2019 IS350 F-Sport, which shares the 311 HP V6 and has decent power, sounds great and also loves to rev. It feels decently quick. I have driven an RC350 F-Sport many years ago and it definitely feels a bit sportier than the IS350 F-Sport while still being a comfortable cruiser. I cannot imagine the RC300 or RC200t. 311 HP is good enough power and considering you are looking for a GT car, RC350 F-Sport will fit the role better

The whole difference that separates the RC and RCF, is the track oriented hardware and capabilities in the RCF (70% different car for that reason alone).


Really odd considering the downshift rev matches are one of the strongest features RCF is recognized for. Also, a track oriented car must have rev matching in order to not upset the chassis balance in turns. Cannot speak for IS500 F-Sport. I drove an IS500 F-Sport (in a test drive) and the transmission software tune is definitely different than in my RCF. There is a whiplashing effect in SPORT+/MANUAL mode in RCF that I did not feel in the IS500.

Here is my exhaust video and you can hear the rev matches

jim2527

I’m 56 with a creaky body and found a Cayman to be tolerable. Most 2 door sports car are difficult to get in and out of… Nissan Z, Supra, Mustang, Corvette are all difficult.

RCF transmission is just fine on the downshifts. Again, it’s mode dependent, Sport+ is always in a few gears lower with upshifts at a higher rpm and downshifts at higher rpm.

I suppose the term GT is subjective.