I think one of the things that thwarts more excitement for Lexus is that there just isn't a lot of aftermarket support for parts & tuning as there is for, say, BMW. Just my perception.

 

I spoke with a bunch of my friends at Lexus today.

While everyone loves the new design, the real question is HP to weight ratio. All are wondering if the F will have what it takes to surprises the ISF performance.

When I inquired about the actual horsepower, I received the same above 450 HP responses.

Time will soon tell.

 

Lexus already said it will be faster than IS-F

 

I totally disagree, the M4 is turbocharged and that means it has WAY more power making potential than the normally aspirated Lexus V8. I see tuners jumping all over the BMW

 

Thanks! I guess I missed BMW's full unveiling of the M3/M4 at last month's Detroit Auto Show since I was entirely focused on the Lexus RC-F and Toyota FT-1.

 

Sweet, I need to buy that and put it in my office.

 

I am seriously considering this car as the timing of it's release lines up well with end of my M3 lease. On paper it has the goods but often times Lexus misses where the rubber meets the road. It's nice to see Lexus getting aggressive with their brand, more emotional, in an effort to meet the Germans head on.

 

Who cares about the tuners? Just because tuners modify a turbocharged car does not make it a superior car. The 335i (which shares the engine with the new M3/M4) could easily with Juice box 4 increased boost pressure, beat the M3 in a straight line, but the E92 M3 is still considered the true legend by virtue of the sound, throttle response and its ability to rev so quickly.

A Mazdaspeed 3 and Ford Focus ST has a lot of modifications by tuners. I don't know if you have seen any of the M4 videos and it sounds completely mediocre at best.

Where RC-F has truly the potential for greatness and where M3/M4 cannot touch it is, being a naturally aspirated V8, is the driver's experience. The sound, durability, throttle response and the way it delivers power. All of these the M4 will not be able to come close to.

 

who cares about tuners? <-- are you serious? Have you ever been to Japan? I used to live there and incase you haven't noticed, the majority of cars there are turbocharged, FAST, and a blast to drive! Don't get me wrong, there is nothing like the sound of a High revving normally aspirated engine, but to compete with todays high performance cars, I would choose hybrid and or turbocharged over NA.


and that V8 was so awesome in the M3, they ditched it for a turbocharged 6 in the new M4!:

 

They did admit the main reasons they did it was to comply with fuel economy/exhaust regulations whilst still maintaining reasonable power.

 

Huh? It was ranked as the one of the top 5 best engines BMW ever made alongside the V10, M1 V8 and Mclaren V12 engine.

The V8 was exclusive and built from the ground up to be an M engine race-bred. The new M4 engine is based on the existing mass produced 3.0 Liter inline 6 in all of the BMW line up. It is saving BMW a lot of money. The 3.0 Liter inline 6 is notorious for HPFP failures and turboes going into limp mode and overheating.

Officially, BMW stated it is for lowering emissions, achieving a target of almost 30 mpg and also downsizing. BMW officially and openly admitted they are leaving a good portion of the response, sound and ability give the engine extremely light internals to make it rev quickly to high revs behind.

What my point was, if I really wanted to get a tuner car, I would a WRX and make it 500 wheel HP. Not an RC-F since those cars are all about totality of the ownership experience.

 

that is probably a tiny reason why.....they're building a sports car, not a prius, so I doubt emissions is there main focus.

if that was 100% the reason, then everyone would have smaller turbocharged engines, right? What about all the Ferrari, Lambo's, Mustangs, Corvettes, Lexus RCF's, etc.?


I'm only disappointed that they could've made the RCF a REAL killer by turbocharging it. I guess I can hope that the FT-1 is turbocharged.

 

Being a sports coupe, they are lowering emissions by replacing a V8 with a I-6 TT to retain similar power while reducing pro-rated fleet emissions and attaining their target of almost 30 mpg. What does a Prius have to do anything with that?

Don't compare apples to oranges. Ferrari, Lambo etc. are produced in a tiny fraction in terms of quantity compared to an M3 so their pro-rated fleet emissions is much lower than a mass producer. Plus their branding has all been built around racing heritage, which is why their halo products would always be naturally aspirated high-revving engines. Aston Martin licenses Toyota' iQ and made it Cygnet exactly to create a mass produced car with low emissions in order to reduce their overall fleet emissions.

If you compare apples to apples, like C63, M5, E63, CLS, CTS etc., they ALL are going turbocharged because they are mass produced, which is why brands are going turbocharging to reduce their fleet emissions while retaining the same level of powers. Plus it is much cheaper to produce these engines.

Lexus achieved similar results by cylinder deactivation. The biggest advantage RC-F will have over any other car in the segment would be much superior throttle response, engine/exhaust sound, higher revs and durability over the long term. That is what it will earn praises for in comparison tests. Mark my words down.

 

yeah i kind of have to agree with this one. even though im not a real bmw person, that is one of the major advantages those cars tend to see is the aftermarket and tuneability.

I understand what view point you are coming from as well but you can just say "who cares about the tuners". That is one of the biggest advantages the bmw have not just the turbo models but all of them in general. its more than just a sound thing as well. the bmw in general, but namely the m3, has a legacy behind which tends to be a bigger driving factor than anything.

Now there is not to many bigger toyota heads than me but even i have to admit if it came down to a straight performance/mod friendly car, i wouldnt get an F at all. i would lean towards the bmw all day, more so the 335i just because that car has a huge aftermarket. its almost the german supra. not to mention with bolt ons it destroys the m3. But ill say i would chose the e92 m3 over the 335i if i had a choice of the 2 right now.

But i dont know many people who buy a car off of the strength of how it sounds though. Because if that be the case, i would take the sound of turbo 6 any day of the week

 

Let's be clear - the N54 came out in the 335i in 2006. It's been SEVEN YEARS and a new twin-scroll engine has replaced the N54 in just about everything but the 335is. The last 4 model year 335s, and the F30 in particular, have not had any problems like you mention.

I'm all for calling out BMW for poorly performing N54 engines, but I'm also for giving credit where it's due with their fixes.