RC F Test Drive on the Back Roads--Much More than the IS F
11-29-14, 05:17 PM
#16
Sorry to hijack your thread but I actually managed to get a test drive yesterday too!!!
Firstly, kudos to Lexus of Brisbane for always giving first class customer treatment and always making me feel welcome. They are always in the mood for a chat and a coffee even when you're not ready to buy a car from them.
I am a proud owner of a 2012 ISF and probably driven my F one of the hardest around Australia, other than Lexus themselves or professional drivers. I've tracked the car, drifted it, ran autocross and done mountain climbs in it. So I have a pretty good benchmark of how it feels compared to the RCF. I know how the ISF feels at the limit, how to get it to transition from understeer to gradual oversteer and then full on powerslide. So here we go.
The black RCF was waiting for me at Lexus of Fortitude Valley. This was a TVD RCF with full leather, all the gadgets, but no carbon. I've seen a blue one before but first time I've seen a black one in the flesh. Immediate parallels were drawn to my own ISF. In fact, the whole drive was an exercise in comparisons between the ISF and RCF.
If you don't have time to read the whole review, the summary is if the ISF and LFA had sex and had a baby, it would be the RCF.
The exterior - it's big. You think as a coupe, it'd be smaller, but it's actually bigger than the ISF. While it's not a photogentic car, in the metal it is really quite a sight to behold. As we drove around Brisbane City, we got so many people pointing, taking pictures and gawking that I thought I was driving some exotic.
The interior - RCF wins hands down. The materials, the LCD dash, everything is high quality and Lexus is typically Lexus. The ISF is one generation behind and while it has aged well, you can't compare. The gadgets are everywhere. There's so many things to fiddle with, the drive mode settings, the adjustable spoiler, the nav system, the G force meter, you can't really get bored sitting in traffic with this car. The steering wheel is BEAUTIFUL. It's much thicker than the ISF and it feels meatier and much nicer to hold. The driving position is better than the ISF as you sit lower. Kind of reminds me of the 86's driving position. You can actually fit in the back seats (I tried and I'm 6'), but anything longer than an hour would be seriously stretching patience and hamstrings.
The engine note sounds a bit artificial compared to the ISF in sport and sport+ mode. Newcomers to the F brand won't notice it but as an ISF owner you'll pick it up immediately. You can definitely detect that it's somewhat synthesized. I was a little disappointed by that but it's not a huge issue for me and I will probably in time grow to ignore it.
Driving is where things go a bit differently. The ISF is a bit of an animal, especially with intake, headers and exhaust. It's manic and wants to oversteer at any chance. The RCF is quite different. You can feel the weight. It's definitely fast - I would say in a straight line, it's as fast as my modded ISF. A modded RCF would be QUICK! But when you pitch it into the corners hard, it doesn't like to play as much. Lexus was probably aiming for fast lap times with the RCF and less frantic handling, and while it might beat the ISF on the track, you kind of feel it's not as playful and less of a wild child. You can definitely get it to drift (sorry about that, Lexus salesman) but it doesn't feel as natural as in the ISF - you need to force it. Maybe because I was testing the TVD version and not the torsen one so it kept trying to keep the car in line. The car has quite a lot of grip, but if you do come in too hot it will understeer. Push harder and it will progress onto oversteer, gradually and controllable - commendable! Similar to how my ISF was in stock form. The good thing about the RCF is the extra drive modes which allow you to be playful and if you do somehow force it to get sideways, the VDIM is even less intrusive than in the ISF's sports mode. Unfortunately, I was unable to test the "expert" mode as I was not on the track.
In terms of braking, the RCF seems to be quite similar to the ISF in terms of stopping distance. Could not test fade resistance. Importantly, it does not have the rear end instability under hard braking that the ISF has. Sadly, this also means you can't induce drifts purely by using brake-induced oversteer anymore. In the ISF, you come hard into a corner, dab the brakes hard and back end comes round, you mash the throttle, the torsen diff hooks up and you can hold the slide endlessly as long as you have enough road. Because the RCF is a lot more neutral, you'll have to throw a lot more throttle at it to get the back to come round - basically "power-on oversteer" where you just turn in, mash the throttle hard to overwhelm the rear tyres and then Bob's your uncle (this also works well with the ISF if you don't have enough time/space to do lift-off oversteer). I'll need more time with it in "expert off-off" mode to verify.
Day-to-day, the RCF has adjustable suspension and this makes it a very good daily driver, super comfortable and.....sorry I fell asleep writing that sentence. The RCF in normal and eco mode is more comfortable than a 2012/2013/2014 ISF. You get things like blind spot monitoring, lane departure warning that weren't available in the ISF (options for our American breathren, I believe, but standard on the Australian RCFs. The Australian RCFs are top spec RCs, so they have every single gadget. The only thing you can option are the wheels and carbon.)
So yes, the RCF is a GREAT car and you will fall in love immediately if you are new to a F car. The problem is the ISF. You have this nagging feeling you are driving ISF 1.5. The interior is a big upgrade but you feel the weight. It's less manic and playful, it's more mature. So it might not suit everyone! Please, go test drive it before you sign the dotted line because the ISF IS SPECIAL. The RCF is special too, but it's different. It's no doubt a step forward, but it's like the ISF who has grown up, and you lose a bit of that naughtiness that made us love the ISF for what it is. And the million dollar question - will the RCF be able to run away from my ISF on the street? After the test drive, I do have my doubts. As I mentioned, the weight is an issue, whereas I feel the ISF is chuckable and pulls just as hard or harder with IHE. But my ISF isn't stock, so it's not a fair comparison. In time, there will be mods for the RCF that will unlock its potential.
I personally am undecided. I really want to love it. I am sticking with the F brand as a long term customer so I'm not going anywhere. I might wait to see if they will release a lightweight version, and I am leaning towards the torsen diff instead of the TVD because I prefer more control over the car rather than all out lap times. All is not lost - I remember test driving the ISF and not being THAT impressed by it, but as time went by I fell more and more in love with it, and it turned out to be the best car I ever owned! If your ISF is getting a bit long in the tooth, maybe you just need to trust Lexus and Yaguchi-san and go for it.....
Firstly, kudos to Lexus of Brisbane for always giving first class customer treatment and always making me feel welcome. They are always in the mood for a chat and a coffee even when you're not ready to buy a car from them.
I am a proud owner of a 2012 ISF and probably driven my F one of the hardest around Australia, other than Lexus themselves or professional drivers. I've tracked the car, drifted it, ran autocross and done mountain climbs in it. So I have a pretty good benchmark of how it feels compared to the RCF. I know how the ISF feels at the limit, how to get it to transition from understeer to gradual oversteer and then full on powerslide. So here we go.
The black RCF was waiting for me at Lexus of Fortitude Valley. This was a TVD RCF with full leather, all the gadgets, but no carbon. I've seen a blue one before but first time I've seen a black one in the flesh. Immediate parallels were drawn to my own ISF. In fact, the whole drive was an exercise in comparisons between the ISF and RCF.
If you don't have time to read the whole review, the summary is if the ISF and LFA had sex and had a baby, it would be the RCF.
The exterior - it's big. You think as a coupe, it'd be smaller, but it's actually bigger than the ISF. While it's not a photogentic car, in the metal it is really quite a sight to behold. As we drove around Brisbane City, we got so many people pointing, taking pictures and gawking that I thought I was driving some exotic.
The interior - RCF wins hands down. The materials, the LCD dash, everything is high quality and Lexus is typically Lexus. The ISF is one generation behind and while it has aged well, you can't compare. The gadgets are everywhere. There's so many things to fiddle with, the drive mode settings, the adjustable spoiler, the nav system, the G force meter, you can't really get bored sitting in traffic with this car. The steering wheel is BEAUTIFUL. It's much thicker than the ISF and it feels meatier and much nicer to hold. The driving position is better than the ISF as you sit lower. Kind of reminds me of the 86's driving position. You can actually fit in the back seats (I tried and I'm 6'), but anything longer than an hour would be seriously stretching patience and hamstrings.
The engine note sounds a bit artificial compared to the ISF in sport and sport+ mode. Newcomers to the F brand won't notice it but as an ISF owner you'll pick it up immediately. You can definitely detect that it's somewhat synthesized. I was a little disappointed by that but it's not a huge issue for me and I will probably in time grow to ignore it.
Driving is where things go a bit differently. The ISF is a bit of an animal, especially with intake, headers and exhaust. It's manic and wants to oversteer at any chance. The RCF is quite different. You can feel the weight. It's definitely fast - I would say in a straight line, it's as fast as my modded ISF. A modded RCF would be QUICK! But when you pitch it into the corners hard, it doesn't like to play as much. Lexus was probably aiming for fast lap times with the RCF and less frantic handling, and while it might beat the ISF on the track, you kind of feel it's not as playful and less of a wild child. You can definitely get it to drift (sorry about that, Lexus salesman) but it doesn't feel as natural as in the ISF - you need to force it. Maybe because I was testing the TVD version and not the torsen one so it kept trying to keep the car in line. The car has quite a lot of grip, but if you do come in too hot it will understeer. Push harder and it will progress onto oversteer, gradually and controllable - commendable! Similar to how my ISF was in stock form. The good thing about the RCF is the extra drive modes which allow you to be playful and if you do somehow force it to get sideways, the VDIM is even less intrusive than in the ISF's sports mode. Unfortunately, I was unable to test the "expert" mode as I was not on the track.
In terms of braking, the RCF seems to be quite similar to the ISF in terms of stopping distance. Could not test fade resistance. Importantly, it does not have the rear end instability under hard braking that the ISF has. Sadly, this also means you can't induce drifts purely by using brake-induced oversteer anymore. In the ISF, you come hard into a corner, dab the brakes hard and back end comes round, you mash the throttle, the torsen diff hooks up and you can hold the slide endlessly as long as you have enough road. Because the RCF is a lot more neutral, you'll have to throw a lot more throttle at it to get the back to come round - basically "power-on oversteer" where you just turn in, mash the throttle hard to overwhelm the rear tyres and then Bob's your uncle (this also works well with the ISF if you don't have enough time/space to do lift-off oversteer). I'll need more time with it in "expert off-off" mode to verify.
Day-to-day, the RCF has adjustable suspension and this makes it a very good daily driver, super comfortable and.....sorry I fell asleep writing that sentence. The RCF in normal and eco mode is more comfortable than a 2012/2013/2014 ISF. You get things like blind spot monitoring, lane departure warning that weren't available in the ISF (options for our American breathren, I believe, but standard on the Australian RCFs. The Australian RCFs are top spec RCs, so they have every single gadget. The only thing you can option are the wheels and carbon.)
So yes, the RCF is a GREAT car and you will fall in love immediately if you are new to a F car. The problem is the ISF. You have this nagging feeling you are driving ISF 1.5. The interior is a big upgrade but you feel the weight. It's less manic and playful, it's more mature. So it might not suit everyone! Please, go test drive it before you sign the dotted line because the ISF IS SPECIAL. The RCF is special too, but it's different. It's no doubt a step forward, but it's like the ISF who has grown up, and you lose a bit of that naughtiness that made us love the ISF for what it is. And the million dollar question - will the RCF be able to run away from my ISF on the street? After the test drive, I do have my doubts. As I mentioned, the weight is an issue, whereas I feel the ISF is chuckable and pulls just as hard or harder with IHE. But my ISF isn't stock, so it's not a fair comparison. In time, there will be mods for the RCF that will unlock its potential.
I personally am undecided. I really want to love it. I am sticking with the F brand as a long term customer so I'm not going anywhere. I might wait to see if they will release a lightweight version, and I am leaning towards the torsen diff instead of the TVD because I prefer more control over the car rather than all out lap times. All is not lost - I remember test driving the ISF and not being THAT impressed by it, but as time went by I fell more and more in love with it, and it turned out to be the best car I ever owned! If your ISF is getting a bit long in the tooth, maybe you just need to trust Lexus and Yaguchi-san and go for it.....
Last edited by AussieISF; 11-29-14 at 06:14 PM.
11-29-14, 06:49 PM
#17
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Mate,
This a public thread, so have at it.
I too have the 2012 IS F. A couple of comparative comments:
1. The stock IS F on a great day can run a 4.2...that's it. The RC F will out run the IS F in both a 0-60, quarter mile, and one mile run with ease. The IS F will never break the 4 second barrier--there is just no way.
2. It will easily take the IS F on the track--especially with the TVD. IMO, this is a leap forward in track capabilities for Yaguchi. Slip cornering and throwing the IS F around are fun maneuvers but not fast.
3. I did not have any perception of "weight" whatsoever--none. The car also did not feel larger to me. I felt planted and absorbed in the RC F, and It did not take long for me to realize the thrust is amazing--perhaps this is what I most noticed as well as the strong pull through the extended rev range.
4. The tranny and engine are a leap forward in the F line. The shifts are faster--no doubt about it.
I love my IS F, but I seriously doubt any IS F owners buying up the F line will look back with regret. I know that I won't after today's drive.
Yes, it does not replace the IS F. It exceeds it, IMO and that of many others. And yes, it is more mature. Both are great cars and are a better choice than the competition.
BTW: Those hooked on the IS F...fear not. I would expect to see a new IS F with the RC F drivetrain after the GS F launch.
This a public thread, so have at it.
I too have the 2012 IS F. A couple of comparative comments:
1. The stock IS F on a great day can run a 4.2...that's it. The RC F will out run the IS F in both a 0-60, quarter mile, and one mile run with ease. The IS F will never break the 4 second barrier--there is just no way.
2. It will easily take the IS F on the track--especially with the TVD. IMO, this is a leap forward in track capabilities for Yaguchi. Slip cornering and throwing the IS F around are fun maneuvers but not fast.
3. I did not have any perception of "weight" whatsoever--none. The car also did not feel larger to me. I felt planted and absorbed in the RC F, and It did not take long for me to realize the thrust is amazing--perhaps this is what I most noticed as well as the strong pull through the extended rev range.
4. The tranny and engine are a leap forward in the F line. The shifts are faster--no doubt about it.
I love my IS F, but I seriously doubt any IS F owners buying up the F line will look back with regret. I know that I won't after today's drive.
Yes, it does not replace the IS F. It exceeds it, IMO and that of many others. And yes, it is more mature. Both are great cars and are a better choice than the competition.
BTW: Those hooked on the IS F...fear not. I would expect to see a new IS F with the RC F drivetrain after the GS F launch.
Last edited by ISF001; 11-29-14 at 07:20 PM.
11-29-14, 08:16 PM
#19
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: TX
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On a side note, a friend of mine was a big up at a dealership. I was always surprised at the **** they would allow him to do. They would let him take home cars with 1-2 miles, beat the living **** out of them, then return them. The cars would end up having 40-60 miles by the end, and they would sell no issue.
But the things that would happen in these cars was nuts. I always asked him wasn't customers detoured by the cars having 50+ miles. He said it was common place at his dealerships for the higher ups to really beat on these cars, to get a realistic impression of them in order to sell their upsides.
When I purchase a car and I am going to pay for a brand new car (full price); I'll make damn sure that car is fresh off the trailer with 1-2 miles, no more.
But the things that would happen in these cars was nuts. I always asked him wasn't customers detoured by the cars having 50+ miles. He said it was common place at his dealerships for the higher ups to really beat on these cars, to get a realistic impression of them in order to sell their upsides.
When I purchase a car and I am going to pay for a brand new car (full price); I'll make damn sure that car is fresh off the trailer with 1-2 miles, no more.
11-29-14, 08:18 PM
#20
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
On a side note, a friend of mine was a big up at a dealership. I was always surprised at the **** they would allow him to do. They would let him take home cars with 1-2 miles, beat the living **** out of them, then return them. The cars would end up having 40-60 miles by the end, and they would sell no issue.
But the things that would happen in these cars was nuts. I always asked him wasn't customers detoured by the cars having 50+ miles. He said it was common place at his dealerships for the higher ups to really beat on these cars, to get a realistic impression of them in order to sell their upsides.
When I purchase a car and I am going to pay for a brand new car (full price); I'll make damn sure that car is fresh off the trailer with 1-2 miles, no more.
But the things that would happen in these cars was nuts. I always asked him wasn't customers detoured by the cars having 50+ miles. He said it was common place at his dealerships for the higher ups to really beat on these cars, to get a realistic impression of them in order to sell their upsides.
When I purchase a car and I am going to pay for a brand new car (full price); I'll make damn sure that car is fresh off the trailer with 1-2 miles, no more.
11-29-14, 08:22 PM
#21
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Texas
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On a side note, a friend of mine was a big up at a dealership. I was always surprised at the **** they would allow him to do. They would let him take home cars with 1-2 miles, beat the living **** out of them, then return them. The cars would end up having 40-60 miles by the end, and they would sell no issue.
But the things that would happen in these cars was nuts. I always asked him wasn't customers detoured by the cars having 50+ miles. He said it was common place at his dealerships for the higher ups to really beat on these cars, to get a realistic impression of them in order to sell their upsides.
When I purchase a car and I am going to pay for a brand new car (full price); I'll make damn sure that car is fresh off the trailer with 1-2 miles, no more.
But the things that would happen in these cars was nuts. I always asked him wasn't customers detoured by the cars having 50+ miles. He said it was common place at his dealerships for the higher ups to really beat on these cars, to get a realistic impression of them in order to sell their upsides.
When I purchase a car and I am going to pay for a brand new car (full price); I'll make damn sure that car is fresh off the trailer with 1-2 miles, no more.
11-29-14, 08:29 PM
#22
Not quite sure where any test drive from professional sources have said the RC-F blows the IS-F away in performance. All the ones I have read say it's pretty much the exact same 0-60 and 1/4 mile time. It's def a head turning car in the looks dept but as far as pure performance it is not light years ahead of IS-F. Congrats to those who have been lucky enough to buy one, it's a beautiful car. Let's just not say that it blows away IS-F in performance when we all know it doesn't.
11-29-14, 09:53 PM
#24
Lexus Test Driver
Not quite sure where any test drive from professional sources have said the RC-F blows the IS-F away in performance. All the ones I have read say it's pretty much the exact same 0-60 and 1/4 mile time. It's def a head turning car in the looks dept but as far as pure performance it is not light years ahead of IS-F. Congrats to those who have been lucky enough to buy one, it's a beautiful car. Let's just not say that it blows away IS-F in performance when we all know it doesn't.
BTW, RC-F was able to crack a 3.9 seconds 0-60 mph, which the IS-F never got close to by 3/10ths at least.
RC-F does have the power-to-weight ratio advantage and broader powerband.
I would say, the OP should stage a drag race between his '12 IS-F and his new RC-F to put things into perspective.
11-30-14, 03:40 AM
#26
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Not quite sure where any test drive from professional sources have said the RC-F blows the IS-F away in performance. All the ones I have read say it's pretty much the exact same 0-60 and 1/4 mile time. It's def a head turning car in the looks dept but as far as pure performance it is not light years ahead of IS-F. Congrats to those who have been lucky enough to buy one, it's a beautiful car. Let's just not say that it blows away IS-F in performance when we all know it doesn't.
My statements are grounded in comparative drives, facts and personal experience:
Track Comparison: IS F and RC F
http://www.torquenews.com/1083/track...lexus-has-come
0-60 Acceleration:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/features...the-year-award
The RC F ran a 3.9 for Road & Track's driver in the PCOTY testing. Testing for the 2014 IS F was no doubt the least impressive for all of its years coming in at 4.6-4.8 0-60. The 2008 at BEST ran a 4.2 with 4.4 as an average. The RC F is much faster off the line.
Standing Quarter Mile Times:
Around 12.9-13.1 for the IS F and a 12.5 for the RC F.
O-100 Times:
IS F-10.7; RC F 9.7
0-150 Times:
IS F-29.3 ; RC F 24.8
It only takes a little imagination to see how a drag race would go. The RC F has already documented gains in performance. Don't get me wrong. The IS F is still a great choice over the competition.
Undeniably--stock for stock--the RC F is a leap forward for the F line. The car performs at a significantly improved level.
Suggestion: Log time in an IS F, if possible, then go test drive the RC F. You'll become a believer.
Last edited by ISF001; 11-30-14 at 03:50 AM.
11-30-14, 03:44 AM
#27
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
There is no head to head drag race yet. So it means very little as to what those publications are saying. Different days, temperatures, conditions etc. would result in different outcomes. For example, there are quite a few tests where the IS-F ran a 13.1 seconds mostly because of the conditions that day.
BTW, RC-F was able to crack a 3.9 seconds 0-60 mph, which the IS-F never got close to by 3/10ths at least.
RC-F does have the power-to-weight ratio advantage and broader powerband.
I would say, the OP should stage a drag race between his '12 IS-F and his new RC-F to put things into perspective.
BTW, RC-F was able to crack a 3.9 seconds 0-60 mph, which the IS-F never got close to by 3/10ths at least.
RC-F does have the power-to-weight ratio advantage and broader powerband.
I would say, the OP should stage a drag race between his '12 IS-F and his new RC-F to put things into perspective.
Last edited by ISF001; 11-30-14 at 03:47 AM.
11-30-14, 04:45 AM
#28
I agree that the RCF is faster, and it should be. Yaguchi and his team would be fired if they spent the extra few years and millions building a car that wasn't any faster than the car that they had to work with using an existing chassis. This time round, they had a clean slate to work with, almost no compromises and a lot of knowledge gained from the ISF and LFA programs.
There's no arguing that the RCF is going to be faster than the ISF on the track. However, we are talking about tenths of a second here. And bearing in mind, the RCF loses rear leg room and 2 doors. So while yes, there are improvements, to a late model ISF owner they feel evolutionary rather than revolutionary. And when you really try to make the RCF dance, you do feel the weight. A couple of corners when I tried to really pitch the car in, I could feel the nose was pushing wide, the turn-in is not as keen as the ISF. To be fast around a track, you need to be smooth and that's why the RCF will be the faster track car especially with the TVD which will allow you to power out of the corners faster, whereas the ISF will just encounter oversteer if power is applied too early coming out of the turn. It's going to be the fun vs fast argument, to which the right answer is only selected by the potential buyer and his intended purpose for the car.
If you can bear with losing the 2 doors and back seat space, want the nicer interior, marginal increase in performance, and it's in your budget, then I say go for it and trade in your ISFs for one. If not maybe hold off and see how the new GSF/ISF turns out to be. We should know around this time next year. Anyway, in the world of cars, if you can wait you'll always be better off as new models will come out, improvements will get rolled out, resale values drop, aftermarket parts appear, etc.
There's no arguing that the RCF is going to be faster than the ISF on the track. However, we are talking about tenths of a second here. And bearing in mind, the RCF loses rear leg room and 2 doors. So while yes, there are improvements, to a late model ISF owner they feel evolutionary rather than revolutionary. And when you really try to make the RCF dance, you do feel the weight. A couple of corners when I tried to really pitch the car in, I could feel the nose was pushing wide, the turn-in is not as keen as the ISF. To be fast around a track, you need to be smooth and that's why the RCF will be the faster track car especially with the TVD which will allow you to power out of the corners faster, whereas the ISF will just encounter oversteer if power is applied too early coming out of the turn. It's going to be the fun vs fast argument, to which the right answer is only selected by the potential buyer and his intended purpose for the car.
If you can bear with losing the 2 doors and back seat space, want the nicer interior, marginal increase in performance, and it's in your budget, then I say go for it and trade in your ISFs for one. If not maybe hold off and see how the new GSF/ISF turns out to be. We should know around this time next year. Anyway, in the world of cars, if you can wait you'll always be better off as new models will come out, improvements will get rolled out, resale values drop, aftermarket parts appear, etc.
Last edited by AussieISF; 11-30-14 at 04:52 AM.
11-30-14, 06:41 AM
#29
11-30-14, 08:22 AM
#30
If I had a modded 2012 ISF, I'd probably be hard pressed to trade it in for a 2015 RCF. No doubt the rcf is the better car. But after spending money, time, and sweat and tears modifying my car, it would be difficult to let go of my baby if the gains are only "evolutionary." With that said, if I had a stock ISF, a trade would be inevitable