RC-F in Top Gear [22x06] March 1st
03-03-15 | 05:19 AM
#136
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,083
Likes: 3
From: PA
About These "Reviewers"--Including Clarkson
I have watched TG for years, and I've been fortunate enough to drive a wide array of performance cars either through direct ownership or friends. While I do view the show for entertainment, the programming vacillates between blatant imbecility and downright vicious criticism--much is which is often excessive and driven by ulterior motives.
Yes, I was appalled by Clarkson's material misrepresentation of the new RC F. The car cuts across mainstream thinking in car design for 2015 and beyond. It does not have a scaled down, turbo charged engine but a new, masterpiece V8, it drinks more than its fair share of fuel, it scoffs at the traditional mindset in many regards, and it's one burly machine that leaves a chewed up road from the wake it makes tearing across the highways.
The automotive industry is filled with advocates--pro and con Lexus, pro and con Ferrari, pro and con Ford, pro and con everything. Their motivations are clear: it all boils down to business--dollars and cents--the same dollars and cents that allows us to purchase an RC F for up to $82,000 US and even more in certain locations across the globe. We all pursue dollars and cents, but it's how we honestly earn our money that separates us from unethical business practices.
The problem is common cents sometimes replaces common sense. It was apparent that we were watching an intentional attempt to misrepresent the outstanding capability of this 363:2 road:track car.
I was amazed to see the RC F outperform the M4 and RS5 in the Road & Track Motown. It virtually tied the M4 in the MotorTrend test. MT's reviewers admitted their surprise, but even with that admission, they clung to the German car.
Automotive reviewers all have faults and flaws in their process, and these are for the most part tolerable and understandable. Unfortunately, they all have strategic alliances within the industry, and these alliances in more ways than one feed their personal interests.
The travesty of a "review" done my Clarkson is a transparent and staged misrepresentation of the new super coupe. You do not need 20/20 vision to see his intention. The car leaving the track at low speed and cutting into the green was the ultimate in asininity.
Yes, I was appalled by Clarkson's material misrepresentation of the new RC F. The car cuts across mainstream thinking in car design for 2015 and beyond. It does not have a scaled down, turbo charged engine but a new, masterpiece V8, it drinks more than its fair share of fuel, it scoffs at the traditional mindset in many regards, and it's one burly machine that leaves a chewed up road from the wake it makes tearing across the highways.
The automotive industry is filled with advocates--pro and con Lexus, pro and con Ferrari, pro and con Ford, pro and con everything. Their motivations are clear: it all boils down to business--dollars and cents--the same dollars and cents that allows us to purchase an RC F for up to $82,000 US and even more in certain locations across the globe. We all pursue dollars and cents, but it's how we honestly earn our money that separates us from unethical business practices.
The problem is common cents sometimes replaces common sense. It was apparent that we were watching an intentional attempt to misrepresent the outstanding capability of this 363:2 road:track car.
I was amazed to see the RC F outperform the M4 and RS5 in the Road & Track Motown. It virtually tied the M4 in the MotorTrend test. MT's reviewers admitted their surprise, but even with that admission, they clung to the German car.
Automotive reviewers all have faults and flaws in their process, and these are for the most part tolerable and understandable. Unfortunately, they all have strategic alliances within the industry, and these alliances in more ways than one feed their personal interests.
The travesty of a "review" done my Clarkson is a transparent and staged misrepresentation of the new super coupe. You do not need 20/20 vision to see his intention. The car leaving the track at low speed and cutting into the green was the ultimate in asininity.
Last edited by ISF001; 03-03-15 at 07:09 AM.
03-03-15 | 05:51 AM
#137
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,148
Likes: 0
From: Aventura, Florida
Really though, people should go out and drive the car for themselves to form their own opinions. Its crazy this has kinda turned into a STI vs EVO comparison
03-03-15 | 06:33 AM
#138
The UK demonstrators arrived last week, I drove one at Ascari last December courtesy of local dealer, so spent last weekend testing it on the road and bought one of only 3 the dealer had for sale for 2015
Top Gear is my favourite programme so I was shocked by Clarksons dismissal of the RCF, and Top Gear magazine with the Sunday Times motoring column both rate it highly. Clarkson is the main contributor to both. So mixed messages, but he won't hurt sales they are virtually sold out here for 2015
Top Gear is my favourite programme so I was shocked by Clarksons dismissal of the RCF, and Top Gear magazine with the Sunday Times motoring column both rate it highly. Clarkson is the main contributor to both. So mixed messages, but he won't hurt sales they are virtually sold out here for 2015
03-03-15 | 06:36 AM
#139
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Australia
I have watched TP for years, and I've been fortunate enough to drive a wide array of performance cars either through direct ownership or friends. While I do view the show for entertainment, the programming vacillates between blatant imbecility and downright vicious criticism--much is which is often excessive and driven by ulterior motives.
Yes, I was appalled by Clarkson's material misrepresentation of the new RC F. The car cuts across mainstream thinking in car design for 2015 and beyond. It does not have a scaled down, turbo charged engine but a new, masterpiece V8, it drinks more than its fair share of fuel, it scoffs at the traditional mindset in many regards, and it's one burly machine that leaves a chewed up road from the wake it makes tearing across the highways.
The automotive industry is filled with advocates--pro and con Lexus, pro and con Ferrari, pro and con Ford, pro and con everything. Their motivations are clear: it all boils down to business--dollars and cents--the same dollars and cents that allows us to purchase an RC F for up to $82,000 US and even more in certain locations across the globe. We all pursue dollars and cents, but it's how we honestly earn our money that separates us from unethical business practices.
The problem is common cents sometimes replaces common sense. It was apparent that we were watching an intentional attempt to misrepresent the outstanding capability of this 363:2 road:track car.
I was amazed to see the RC F outperform the M4 and RS5 in the Road & Track Motown. It virtually tied the M4 in the MotorTrend test. MT's reviewers admitted their surprise, but even with that admission, they clung to the German car.
Automotive reviewers all have faults and flaws in their process, and these are for the most part tolerable and understandable. Unfortunately, they all have strategic alliances within the industry, and these alliances in more ways than one feed their personal interests.
The travesty of a "review" done my Clarkson is a transparent and staged misrepresentation of the new super coupe. You do not need 20/20 vision to see his intention. The car leaving the track at low speed and cutting into the green was the ultimate in asininity.
Yes, I was appalled by Clarkson's material misrepresentation of the new RC F. The car cuts across mainstream thinking in car design for 2015 and beyond. It does not have a scaled down, turbo charged engine but a new, masterpiece V8, it drinks more than its fair share of fuel, it scoffs at the traditional mindset in many regards, and it's one burly machine that leaves a chewed up road from the wake it makes tearing across the highways.
The automotive industry is filled with advocates--pro and con Lexus, pro and con Ferrari, pro and con Ford, pro and con everything. Their motivations are clear: it all boils down to business--dollars and cents--the same dollars and cents that allows us to purchase an RC F for up to $82,000 US and even more in certain locations across the globe. We all pursue dollars and cents, but it's how we honestly earn our money that separates us from unethical business practices.
The problem is common cents sometimes replaces common sense. It was apparent that we were watching an intentional attempt to misrepresent the outstanding capability of this 363:2 road:track car.
I was amazed to see the RC F outperform the M4 and RS5 in the Road & Track Motown. It virtually tied the M4 in the MotorTrend test. MT's reviewers admitted their surprise, but even with that admission, they clung to the German car.
Automotive reviewers all have faults and flaws in their process, and these are for the most part tolerable and understandable. Unfortunately, they all have strategic alliances within the industry, and these alliances in more ways than one feed their personal interests.
The travesty of a "review" done my Clarkson is a transparent and staged misrepresentation of the new super coupe. You do not need 20/20 vision to see his intention. The car leaving the track at low speed and cutting into the green was the ultimate in asininity.
You really are going overboard with your conspiracy theories, if anyone has the ability to objectively express an opinion on a car it is top gear or clarkson himself.
You need to stop validating your own purchase and view the feedback, reviews etc objectively, the RCF falls short to the M4 in many ways, and equally it has advantages, it looks "unique" and has a lower price point.
Whether clarkson's review went to great lengths or not is less relevant as it appears that the cars shortcomings were self evident at the begining and pushing it further was pointless.
You might also consider that a similar view to his has also been expressed by many others before him
Last edited by .dee; 03-03-15 at 06:43 AM.
03-03-15 | 06:38 AM
#140
Rank/Brand, problems (industry average: 147)
Lexus, 89
Buick, 110
Toyota, 111
Cadillac, 114
Honda, 116
Porsche, 116
Lincoln, 118
Mercedes-Benz, 119
Scion, 121
Chevrolet, 123
GMC, 123
Acura, 124
Nissan, 128
Ram, 134
Audi, 138
Mazda, 140
Mitsubishi, 140
Infiniti, 144
BMW 146
Subaru, 157
Kia, 158
Volkswagen, 165
Chrysler, 173
Volvo, 174
Ford, 188
Hyundai, 188
Dodge, 192
Mini, 193
Jeep, 197
Land Rover, 258
Fiat, 273
Lexus, 89
Buick, 110
Toyota, 111
Cadillac, 114
Honda, 116
Porsche, 116
Lincoln, 118
Mercedes-Benz, 119
Scion, 121
Chevrolet, 123
GMC, 123
Acura, 124
Nissan, 128
Ram, 134
Audi, 138
Mazda, 140
Mitsubishi, 140
Infiniti, 144
BMW 146
Subaru, 157
Kia, 158
Volkswagen, 165
Chrysler, 173
Volvo, 174
Ford, 188
Hyundai, 188
Dodge, 192
Mini, 193
Jeep, 197
Land Rover, 258
Fiat, 273
03-03-15 | 07:20 AM
#141
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,083
Likes: 3
From: PA
I will express my opinion in this thread relentlessly--without begging permission.
This is not about validation. This is about deliberate misrepresentation on his part. I find that intolerable.
One's shortcomings are another's strengths. The RC F challenges conventional automotive wisdom. And it works quite well--my opinion. I also know the M4 has a list of major shortcomings--something this one time M driver will never again deal with on the road or the track.
Clarkson's view is consistent with most UK reviewers--no big surprise here.
Oh...no conspiracy theory at work here. The folks at TG are not that bright.
This is not about validation. This is about deliberate misrepresentation on his part. I find that intolerable.
One's shortcomings are another's strengths. The RC F challenges conventional automotive wisdom. And it works quite well--my opinion. I also know the M4 has a list of major shortcomings--something this one time M driver will never again deal with on the road or the track.
Clarkson's view is consistent with most UK reviewers--no big surprise here.
Oh...no conspiracy theory at work here. The folks at TG are not that bright.
You really are going overboard with your conspiracy theories, if anyone has the ability to objectively express an opinion on a car it is top gear or clarkson himself.
You need to stop validating your own purchase and view the feedback, reviews etc objectively, the RCF falls short to the M4 in many ways, and equally it has advantages, it looks "unique" and has a lower price point.
Whether clarkson's review went to great lengths or not is less relevant as it appears that the cars shortcomings were self evident at the begining and pushing it further was pointless.
You might also consider that a similar view to his has also been expressed by many others before him
You need to stop validating your own purchase and view the feedback, reviews etc objectively, the RCF falls short to the M4 in many ways, and equally it has advantages, it looks "unique" and has a lower price point.
Whether clarkson's review went to great lengths or not is less relevant as it appears that the cars shortcomings were self evident at the begining and pushing it further was pointless.
You might also consider that a similar view to his has also been expressed by many others before him
03-03-15 | 07:26 AM
#142
Lexus Champion
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,395
Likes: 2
From: ATL
Clarkson believes Lamborghini has lost its essence of the bull with the new Huracan.
Do you believe this is a truth?
Clarkson has a DEFINITE agenda, and it runs deeper than most are seeing. The Italians and Japanese are building bad cars in his eyes. Of course, he will "scold" the Brits, but he loves the Rover--one of the most unreliable luxury SUVs in the world.
I posted the Tesla story as one example of what is going on with this guy.
Formulate your own opinions, but there is no grey area here. He materially misrepresents when it benefits his personal agenda. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason why the RC F was not driven by STIG on the track other than his fear of what the result would have been--exceptional in its class.
Do you believe this is a truth?
Clarkson has a DEFINITE agenda, and it runs deeper than most are seeing. The Italians and Japanese are building bad cars in his eyes. Of course, he will "scold" the Brits, but he loves the Rover--one of the most unreliable luxury SUVs in the world.
I posted the Tesla story as one example of what is going on with this guy.
Formulate your own opinions, but there is no grey area here. He materially misrepresents when it benefits his personal agenda. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason why the RC F was not driven by STIG on the track other than his fear of what the result would have been--exceptional in its class.
He hated lexus. But now says that the LFA is his favorite car EVER!!! "The Italians and Japanese are building bad cars in his eyes" and yet he did how many shows singing the praise of the GTR? Did you see him fawning all over the 458 when he tested it? He tested BOTH of those cars multiple times, on TG and Powered Up, because he loved them.
It is YOU that doesn't see the 'grey area'. You want to paint everything in black and white because he panned the vehicle that you will soon take delivery of. I get it. Trust me...EVERYONE here gets it. But he hasn't said much different than every other journalist hasn't said about most of these cars. Even the RCF. Except for the guy on lexus' payroll.
Just enjoy your vehicle and stop tilting at windmills, my man...
Last edited by DrRick; 03-03-15 at 08:10 AM.
Wow, the shark has just been jumped in this thread!
03-03-15 | 08:10 AM
#144
Driver
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
From: SC
I get it that some of my brothers here are royally pissed off at Clarkson and his infotainment non-review, and completely agree that the RC-F deserved (at the least) a less hostile review approach and a proper shakedown by the Stig. Then we would "see what's what", to quote Jezza. However, he wanted to make a point and he damn well made it. Lexus' execution (or lack of it) clearly twisted his tighty whiteys.
Quick sidebar: My 2008 IS-F was well-loved and thoroughly enjoyed, even without a Torsen diff. The only reason I speak of it in the past tense is that I moved to Dubai for a job and had to sell it. Importing it to the UAE would've been needlessly expensive, and besides that it went to a good home in the USA. I'm happy with that.
My babbling aside, if I were making a purchase decision right now and I wished to stay in the "F" family, I'd have no choice but to go back to the well and find a well-loved 2013 IS-F. From an emotional standpoint, I feel that the IS-F was a 100% (even if not completely successful) effort, a "labor of love" on Lexus' part, and I like that they weren't shy about tweaking it over the years to make it even better. While I'm sure that Lexus will end up tweaking the RC, it would've been nice to see some sign from the get-go that it was a total effort. But I've seen no evidence of that. This and the GS-F make a strong case that F Performance has lost its focus.
TL;DR: Does anybody here really believe that the RC-F represents an honest best effort to stay competitive in its class?
Quick sidebar: My 2008 IS-F was well-loved and thoroughly enjoyed, even without a Torsen diff. The only reason I speak of it in the past tense is that I moved to Dubai for a job and had to sell it. Importing it to the UAE would've been needlessly expensive, and besides that it went to a good home in the USA. I'm happy with that.
My babbling aside, if I were making a purchase decision right now and I wished to stay in the "F" family, I'd have no choice but to go back to the well and find a well-loved 2013 IS-F. From an emotional standpoint, I feel that the IS-F was a 100% (even if not completely successful) effort, a "labor of love" on Lexus' part, and I like that they weren't shy about tweaking it over the years to make it even better. While I'm sure that Lexus will end up tweaking the RC, it would've been nice to see some sign from the get-go that it was a total effort. But I've seen no evidence of that. This and the GS-F make a strong case that F Performance has lost its focus.
TL;DR: Does anybody here really believe that the RC-F represents an honest best effort to stay competitive in its class?
03-03-15 | 09:25 AM
#146
if he did this to the corvette, M3, whatever brands top performance car any forum would be complaining. Especially when tons of other reviews say the contrary. All the other reviews praised its easy of driveability yet JC runs it off the track. Obviously, JC is an experienced driver so what gives? Perhaps all the other reviews are better drivers? He obviously didnt go off the track due to lack of skill but for other reasons.
If the car was so embarassing, I would like to see this supposed embarassing laptime, but they wont even do it. Why not? The fact that he decided to compare it with the LFA means its going to fail already in his eyes. Same thing with the i8 and M3 "review" I wanted to see a full blown review of the M3, but then it was just an introductory piece to another car.
But notice they will let the Hennessey Velociraptor truck drive around on the track.
If the car was so embarassing, I would like to see this supposed embarassing laptime, but they wont even do it. Why not? The fact that he decided to compare it with the LFA means its going to fail already in his eyes. Same thing with the i8 and M3 "review" I wanted to see a full blown review of the M3, but then it was just an introductory piece to another car.
But notice they will let the Hennessey Velociraptor truck drive around on the track.
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 03-03-15 at 09:31 AM.
03-03-15 | 09:29 AM
#147
When Top Gear reviewed the ISF they bashed it as well but did say a lot of nice things about it. Video was amazing as well. They described side vents non functional, exhaust was not directly connected. Look at how Lexus listens we got functional vents, bumpers, spoiler, exhaust pipes and so on. I was very pleased with his review and hope Lexus will listen again. However no matter who and how the RCF is reviewed it is all down to a personal choice. Personally I have not driven the RCF, and sure it is heavy, and under powered by the competition i would still get it over anything else. Not because i am a fan boy of Lexus, but because they really do make a great product. I love the way M4 looks and its insane power, and look at Cadillac's V. I mean they all bring something to the table its all a matter of preference. Some people rather get a used GTR for the price of an RCF and just destroy most of the competition. On top of that its an AWD 4 season car. Try taking an RCF out in the snow. I forget who stated that a car should be designed for one thing only, believe it was part of an episode Matt Farah did on Porsche 911 turbo and Viper couldn't agree more. I think just enjoy the reviews and stick to your gut and choice.
Last edited by lexuz125th; 03-03-15 at 09:39 AM.
03-03-15 | 09:35 AM
#148
Lexus Champion
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,395
Likes: 2
From: ATL
if he did this to the corvette, M3, whatever brands top performance car any forum would be complaining. Especially when tons of other reviews say the contrary. All the other reviews praised its easy of driveability yet JC runs it off the track. Obviously, JC is an experienced driver so what gives? Perhaps all the other reviews are better drivers? He obviously didnt go off the track due to lack of skill but for other reasons.
If the car was so embarassing, I would like to see this supposed embarassing laptime, but they wont even do it. Why not? The fact that he decided to compare it with the LFA means its going to fail already in his eyes. Same thing with the i8 and M3 "review" I wanted to see a full blown review of the M3, but then it was just an introductory piece to another car.
But notice they will let the Hennessey Velociraptor truck drive around on the track.
If the car was so embarassing, I would like to see this supposed embarassing laptime, but they wont even do it. Why not? The fact that he decided to compare it with the LFA means its going to fail already in his eyes. Same thing with the i8 and M3 "review" I wanted to see a full blown review of the M3, but then it was just an introductory piece to another car.
But notice they will let the Hennessey Velociraptor truck drive around on the track.
03-03-15 | 10:06 AM
#149
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 1
From: California
It's not conspiracy that RCF is a generation behind the competition. I have been following Clarkson and Harris for years and they are as objective and blunt as you get. New C63 is also around the corner and it no doubt will destroy RCF as well. Will definitely pass on RCF for now.
