RC-F in Top Gear [22x06] March 1st
03-03-15, 03:03 PM
#166
I'm not sure I would say the RC F failed or that the engineering team responsible for it failed either. I do think the vehicle was made with a specific buyer in mind, in all honesty, if you can afford to shell out the cash for an RC F, then you can afford to buy the products that compete against it. I looked at the M3/M4 and debated between them and the RC F for days. My decision to purchase the RC F came down to the looks of the vehicle, the sounds, and the long term outlook of the Lexus being more reliable. Regardless of what we've seen on TG, every reputable magazine outlet has the RC F within a few tenths of a second to 60 to the M twins, with a larger distance being opened up at the quarter mile. I am willing to sacrifice this difference for the reliability and lower running costs of the Lexus.
What kind of kills me in all of this, and why I believe the RC F is getting ripped by a few folks out there is that Lexus positioned the RC F as a competitor to the RS 5 and the M3/M4. They plastered the fact that it beat both vehicles on a closed course on their website, so this tells us that they were indeed targeting these cars. Now, when the press goes in and states some pretty solid facts, we get upset (myself included) because we want to see the car do well.
At the end of the day, Randy Pobst proved that the RC F was able to hang with the M4 while being easier to drive. That would be the world I live in, taking on and off ramps with some speed, enjoying the powerful V8, as well as the fact that you would still have one of the quickest cars out there during the daily drive.
Did I second guess our decision to order an RC F? If I'm being honest, yes I did, especially when all of the negative pub keeps coming in. In the end though, as I stated above, I'm just not willing to deal with the long term reliability issues associated with Audi's and BMW's, not to mention their high maintenance costs. As others here have stated, the RC F "fits" us and what we want out of the vehicle, our test drives of multiple vehicles have proven that to us.
What kind of kills me in all of this, and why I believe the RC F is getting ripped by a few folks out there is that Lexus positioned the RC F as a competitor to the RS 5 and the M3/M4. They plastered the fact that it beat both vehicles on a closed course on their website, so this tells us that they were indeed targeting these cars. Now, when the press goes in and states some pretty solid facts, we get upset (myself included) because we want to see the car do well.
At the end of the day, Randy Pobst proved that the RC F was able to hang with the M4 while being easier to drive. That would be the world I live in, taking on and off ramps with some speed, enjoying the powerful V8, as well as the fact that you would still have one of the quickest cars out there during the daily drive.
Did I second guess our decision to order an RC F? If I'm being honest, yes I did, especially when all of the negative pub keeps coming in. In the end though, as I stated above, I'm just not willing to deal with the long term reliability issues associated with Audi's and BMW's, not to mention their high maintenance costs. As others here have stated, the RC F "fits" us and what we want out of the vehicle, our test drives of multiple vehicles have proven that to us.
03-03-15, 03:17 PM
#167
I'm not sure I would say the RC F failed or that the engineering team responsible for it failed either. I do think the vehicle was made with a specific buyer in mind, in all honesty, if you can afford to shell out the cash for an RC F, then you can afford to buy the products that compete against it. I looked at the M3/M4 and debated between them and the RC F for days. My decision to purchase the RC F came down to the looks of the vehicle, the sounds, and the long term outlook of the Lexus being more reliable. Regardless of what we've seen on TG, every reputable magazine outlet has the RC F within a few tenths of a second to 60 to the M twins, with a larger distance being opened up at the quarter mile. I am willing to sacrifice this difference for the reliability and lower running costs of the Lexus.
What kind of kills me in all of this, and why I believe the RC F is getting ripped by a few folks out there is that Lexus positioned the RC F as a competitor to the RS 5 and the M3/M4. They plastered the fact that it beat both vehicles on a closed course on their website, so this tells us that they were indeed targeting these cars. Now, when the press goes in and states some pretty solid facts, we get upset (myself included) because we want to see the car do well.
At the end of the day, Randy Pobst proved that the RC F was able to hang with the M4 while being easier to drive. That would be the world I live in, taking on and off ramps with some speed, enjoying the powerful V8, as well as the fact that you would still have one of the quickest cars out there during the daily drive.
Did I second guess our decision to order an RC F? If I'm being honest, yes I did, especially when all of the negative pub keeps coming in. In the end though, as I stated above, I'm just not willing to deal with the long term reliability issues associated with Audi's and BMW's, not to mention their high maintenance costs. As others here have stated, the RC F "fits" us and what we want out of the vehicle, our test drives of multiple vehicles have proven that to us.
What kind of kills me in all of this, and why I believe the RC F is getting ripped by a few folks out there is that Lexus positioned the RC F as a competitor to the RS 5 and the M3/M4. They plastered the fact that it beat both vehicles on a closed course on their website, so this tells us that they were indeed targeting these cars. Now, when the press goes in and states some pretty solid facts, we get upset (myself included) because we want to see the car do well.
At the end of the day, Randy Pobst proved that the RC F was able to hang with the M4 while being easier to drive. That would be the world I live in, taking on and off ramps with some speed, enjoying the powerful V8, as well as the fact that you would still have one of the quickest cars out there during the daily drive.
Did I second guess our decision to order an RC F? If I'm being honest, yes I did, especially when all of the negative pub keeps coming in. In the end though, as I stated above, I'm just not willing to deal with the long term reliability issues associated with Audi's and BMW's, not to mention their high maintenance costs. As others here have stated, the RC F "fits" us and what we want out of the vehicle, our test drives of multiple vehicles have proven that to us.
03-03-15, 03:25 PM
#168
03-03-15, 03:37 PM
#169
I'm not sure I would say the RC F failed or that the engineering team responsible for it failed either. I do think the vehicle was made with a specific buyer in mind, in all honesty, if you can afford to shell out the cash for an RC F, then you can afford to buy the products that compete against it. I looked at the M3/M4 and debated between them and the RC F for days. My decision to purchase the RC F came down to the looks of the vehicle, the sounds, and the long term outlook of the Lexus being more reliable. Regardless of what we've seen on TG, every reputable magazine outlet has the RC F within a few tenths of a second to 60 to the M twins, with a larger distance being opened up at the quarter mile. I am willing to sacrifice this difference for the reliability and lower running costs of the Lexus.
What kind of kills me in all of this, and why I believe the RC F is getting ripped by a few folks out there is that Lexus positioned the RC F as a competitor to the RS 5 and the M3/M4. They plastered the fact that it beat both vehicles on a closed course on their website, so this tells us that they were indeed targeting these cars. Now, when the press goes in and states some pretty solid facts, we get upset (myself included) because we want to see the car do well.
At the end of the day, Randy Pobst proved that the RC F was able to hang with the M4 while being easier to drive. That would be the world I live in, taking on and off ramps with some speed, enjoying the powerful V8, as well as the fact that you would still have one of the quickest cars out there during the daily drive.
Did I second guess our decision to order an RC F? If I'm being honest, yes I did, especially when all of the negative pub keeps coming in. In the end though, as I stated above, I'm just not willing to deal with the long term reliability issues associated with Audi's and BMW's, not to mention their high maintenance costs. As others here have stated, the RC F "fits" us and what we want out of the vehicle, our test drives of multiple vehicles have proven that to us.
What kind of kills me in all of this, and why I believe the RC F is getting ripped by a few folks out there is that Lexus positioned the RC F as a competitor to the RS 5 and the M3/M4. They plastered the fact that it beat both vehicles on a closed course on their website, so this tells us that they were indeed targeting these cars. Now, when the press goes in and states some pretty solid facts, we get upset (myself included) because we want to see the car do well.
At the end of the day, Randy Pobst proved that the RC F was able to hang with the M4 while being easier to drive. That would be the world I live in, taking on and off ramps with some speed, enjoying the powerful V8, as well as the fact that you would still have one of the quickest cars out there during the daily drive.
Did I second guess our decision to order an RC F? If I'm being honest, yes I did, especially when all of the negative pub keeps coming in. In the end though, as I stated above, I'm just not willing to deal with the long term reliability issues associated with Audi's and BMW's, not to mention their high maintenance costs. As others here have stated, the RC F "fits" us and what we want out of the vehicle, our test drives of multiple vehicles have proven that to us.
Last edited by obturator; 03-03-15 at 04:45 PM.
03-03-15, 04:47 PM
#171
03-03-15, 05:06 PM
#173
Go test drive the RCF of you don't believe Clarkson. I did, and if you test drive the M4 too, you'll realise how it does fall way behind in the fun and fast factor. As a former ISF owner I wanted to stay in the Lexus family (I loved my ISF) but sadly the RCF feels way too heavy and cumbersome. Yes, TVD carbon version was tested in case some fanboys ask. The transitions corner to corner were way too slow due to the weight, the sheer amount of body roll and lack of torque made drifting difficult, very disappointing for a sports coupe from a company that gave us the 86.
Well, for us car enthusiasts cars only last around 3 years or so, maybe next time round Lexus will learn from this.
Well, for us car enthusiasts cars only last around 3 years or so, maybe next time round Lexus will learn from this.
03-03-15, 08:50 PM
#176
Driver School Candidate
Current '13 W204 C63 owner here. Just trying to learn a bit more about the RC-F. I always had a lot of respect for the IS-F. Despite having an abundance of experience with turbocharged engines, I really love NA motors (particularly now that they're a dying breed).
I need to drive the RC-F before making any personal determinations but it seems to be a better car than Clarkson made it out to be. It's just facing very stiff competition. The new F8X M3/M4 has been very well-reviewed. The new W205 C63/C63 S is also getting showered with praise. I've had the privilege of driving both the M3 and M4 and it was very dynamic in all respects (handling, power, torque, braking, steering precision, etc.).
I'm looking forward to driving the new C63 models, the ATS-V, and the RC-F. Will have to do some more browsing of owners' RC-F impressions until I can get behind the wheel of one.
Last edited by 451BHP; 03-03-15 at 08:54 PM.
03-04-15, 04:33 AM
#177
I would not be so quick to definitively assess how the two cars perform...and differ.
There will be plenty of comparative assessments of the two great cars, and plenty of on-going debate. Most will agree Yaguchi is not an idiot and that the ISF CCSR is no slouch--the model for his RC F.
I would expect to see comparative data soon.
Soon, some of the TVD owners will start a journal in Club Lexus, and many of us are prior IS F owners. Let's see how the chips fall.
03-04-15, 04:50 AM
#178
Lexus Test Driver
New here and this is not perhaps a good way to start out, but here goes and I apologize in advance if I ruffle any tail feathers.
I am blown away that people would cancel an order on any street car because there is something in the price range that might have a .X advantage around a closed circuit course in the hands of very capable driver or because of an interesting, but negative, review.
The vast majority of the population cannot drive at 10/10s around a closed circuit course and most cannot even approach a true 8/10s or 9/10s on a closed circuit course. Where is anyone going to be driving these cars at 9/10s + on public roads . . . Most on here probably would be able to drive at a brisker pace in an RC F than an M4 due to inherent understeer v. oversteer in chassis set up.
I can take my old 2006 somewhat weight reduced 190 hp Elise that I instructed in for years and run faster laps on most closed circuit courses than 99.999% of the population driving any Ms, Z0s, 993, 6 or 7s and etc. Sure they can beat me 0 - 60 or in 1/4 mile (as can family cars and some SUVs), but who the heck really forks out any considerable amount of money for a street car based solely on .2 or .3 quicker 0 - 60 times.
I completely get if someone said going with M4, RS5, C63 or etc. because RC F looks are not for you, comfort is not for you or size is not compatible with one's needs. Canceling an order, however, because of a review or lap times in the hands of a professional driver seems more like an ego/pride based decision than a rationale decision based on your experience driving the car compared to various cars and based on subjective factors such as looks, comfort and meeting certain needs.
I am a performance junky and raced Porsche GT3 cup, F Mazda pro, F Atlantic and various spec classes since mid 90s. For 10 + years, my daily drivers were various 99X model Porsche TTs. The RCF F is my first non-Porsche (1 BMW excluded) daily driver since 1992 and my first car from Japan since a 1987 MR2 I had when I was 19, although my wife recently purchased an IS F-Sport.
I like the looks of the RC F. I think it is a fresh style when some of the other brand designs are tired and need a face lift. I like the interior of the car. It sounds good and is a very nice driving car with sufficient performance on tap to have some fun on public roads. Perhaps at 47, I am just getting old and out of touch . . ., but no reason to get all worked up over some silly negative review or recent lap times by a professional driver. Spend time in it yourself and in the competitors' cars and purchase based on your subjective experience and what makes you happy.
I am blown away that people would cancel an order on any street car because there is something in the price range that might have a .X advantage around a closed circuit course in the hands of very capable driver or because of an interesting, but negative, review.
The vast majority of the population cannot drive at 10/10s around a closed circuit course and most cannot even approach a true 8/10s or 9/10s on a closed circuit course. Where is anyone going to be driving these cars at 9/10s + on public roads . . . Most on here probably would be able to drive at a brisker pace in an RC F than an M4 due to inherent understeer v. oversteer in chassis set up.
I can take my old 2006 somewhat weight reduced 190 hp Elise that I instructed in for years and run faster laps on most closed circuit courses than 99.999% of the population driving any Ms, Z0s, 993, 6 or 7s and etc. Sure they can beat me 0 - 60 or in 1/4 mile (as can family cars and some SUVs), but who the heck really forks out any considerable amount of money for a street car based solely on .2 or .3 quicker 0 - 60 times.
I completely get if someone said going with M4, RS5, C63 or etc. because RC F looks are not for you, comfort is not for you or size is not compatible with one's needs. Canceling an order, however, because of a review or lap times in the hands of a professional driver seems more like an ego/pride based decision than a rationale decision based on your experience driving the car compared to various cars and based on subjective factors such as looks, comfort and meeting certain needs.
I am a performance junky and raced Porsche GT3 cup, F Mazda pro, F Atlantic and various spec classes since mid 90s. For 10 + years, my daily drivers were various 99X model Porsche TTs. The RCF F is my first non-Porsche (1 BMW excluded) daily driver since 1992 and my first car from Japan since a 1987 MR2 I had when I was 19, although my wife recently purchased an IS F-Sport.
I like the looks of the RC F. I think it is a fresh style when some of the other brand designs are tired and need a face lift. I like the interior of the car. It sounds good and is a very nice driving car with sufficient performance on tap to have some fun on public roads. Perhaps at 47, I am just getting old and out of touch . . ., but no reason to get all worked up over some silly negative review or recent lap times by a professional driver. Spend time in it yourself and in the competitors' cars and purchase based on your subjective experience and what makes you happy.
Last edited by DougHII; 03-04-15 at 05:14 AM.
03-04-15, 07:03 AM
#180
New here and this is not perhaps a good way to start out, but here goes and I apologize in advance if I ruffle any tail feathers.
I am blown away that people would cancel an order on any street car because there is something in the price range that might have a .X advantage around a closed circuit course in the hands of very capable driver or because of an interesting, but negative, review.
The vast majority of the population cannot drive at 10/10s around a closed circuit course and most cannot even approach a true 8/10s or 9/10s on a closed circuit course. Where is anyone going to be driving these cars at 9/10s + on public roads . . . Most on here probably would be able to drive at a brisker pace in an RC F than an M4 due to inherent understeer v. oversteer in chassis set up.
I can take my old 2006 somewhat weight reduced 190 hp Elise that I instructed in for years and run faster laps on most closed circuit courses than 99.999% of the population driving any Ms, Z0s, 993, 6 or 7s and etc. Sure they can beat me 0 - 60 or in 1/4 mile (as can family cars and some SUVs), but who the heck really forks out any considerable amount of money for a street car based solely on .2 or .3 quicker 0 - 60 times.
I completely get if someone said going with M4, RS5, C63 or etc. because RC F looks are not for you, comfort is not for you or size is not compatible with one's needs. Canceling an order, however, because of a review or lap times in the hands of a professional driver seems more like an ego/pride based decision than a rationale decision based on your experience driving the car compared to various cars and based on subjective factors such as looks, comfort and meeting certain needs.
I am a performance junky and raced Porsche GT3 cup, F Mazda pro, F Atlantic and various spec classes since mid 90s. For 10 + years, my daily drivers were various 99X model Porsche TTs. The RCF F is my first non-Porsche (1 BMW excluded) daily driver since 1992 and my first car from Japan since a 1987 MR2 I had when I was 19, although my wife recently purchased an IS F-Sport.
I like the looks of the RC F. I think it is a fresh style when some of the other brand designs are tired and need a face lift. I like the interior of the car. It sounds good and is a very nice driving car with sufficient performance on tap to have some fun on public roads. Perhaps at 47, I am just getting old and out of touch . . ., but no reason to get all worked up over some silly negative review or recent lap times by a professional driver. Spend time in it yourself and in the competitors' cars and purchase based on your subjective experience and what makes you happy.
I am blown away that people would cancel an order on any street car because there is something in the price range that might have a .X advantage around a closed circuit course in the hands of very capable driver or because of an interesting, but negative, review.
The vast majority of the population cannot drive at 10/10s around a closed circuit course and most cannot even approach a true 8/10s or 9/10s on a closed circuit course. Where is anyone going to be driving these cars at 9/10s + on public roads . . . Most on here probably would be able to drive at a brisker pace in an RC F than an M4 due to inherent understeer v. oversteer in chassis set up.
I can take my old 2006 somewhat weight reduced 190 hp Elise that I instructed in for years and run faster laps on most closed circuit courses than 99.999% of the population driving any Ms, Z0s, 993, 6 or 7s and etc. Sure they can beat me 0 - 60 or in 1/4 mile (as can family cars and some SUVs), but who the heck really forks out any considerable amount of money for a street car based solely on .2 or .3 quicker 0 - 60 times.
I completely get if someone said going with M4, RS5, C63 or etc. because RC F looks are not for you, comfort is not for you or size is not compatible with one's needs. Canceling an order, however, because of a review or lap times in the hands of a professional driver seems more like an ego/pride based decision than a rationale decision based on your experience driving the car compared to various cars and based on subjective factors such as looks, comfort and meeting certain needs.
I am a performance junky and raced Porsche GT3 cup, F Mazda pro, F Atlantic and various spec classes since mid 90s. For 10 + years, my daily drivers were various 99X model Porsche TTs. The RCF F is my first non-Porsche (1 BMW excluded) daily driver since 1992 and my first car from Japan since a 1987 MR2 I had when I was 19, although my wife recently purchased an IS F-Sport.
I like the looks of the RC F. I think it is a fresh style when some of the other brand designs are tired and need a face lift. I like the interior of the car. It sounds good and is a very nice driving car with sufficient performance on tap to have some fun on public roads. Perhaps at 47, I am just getting old and out of touch . . ., but no reason to get all worked up over some silly negative review or recent lap times by a professional driver. Spend time in it yourself and in the competitors' cars and purchase based on your subjective experience and what makes you happy.