ISF001

And your test drive was at what speed and with what set up? Why even look at the F if a double clutch is so critical to you? Don't buy the F.

However, I have to disagree, and this is coming from a one-time M guy. The millisecond differences are not significantly noticeable. Crispness at lower, test drive speed shifts just will not be there.

The RC F at High speed is lightning quick on both upshifts and downshifts--and the car was designed for high speed driving.

I do not see any slow downshifts in this run. Forget the test drive. Get an F on a track or long, open stretch. Put it into manual, TVD, sport+! EXPERT, and run it HARD to near redline--or even bounce it off the rev limiter. With this set up you have full control of the gear box and it's by far the fastest way to shift this F. It will not disappoint all day all week all month long.

Those of us who bought the F did not settle but rather selected the car for performance and reliability. I've lived the M "dream." Unfortunately, M4 owners are commonly having DCT, brake, exhaust and differential problems--already.

Db750

Hi ISF001, thank you for your post! Please see below the response to your questions, as well as further thoughts on some of your points. I will say that I was unable to view the video at this time as I don't have 40 minutes to spare, but I will be sure to look back at it this weekend as it looks quite interesting. I appreciate all your posts as they have been very informative and helpful for someone like myself that is just getting reacquainted with Lexus.

My test drive was at varying speeds that topped out around 90-100 MPH on I64E and W. I created a thread several days before this drive because I wanted to make sure that I got the most out of this drive as I had to drive an hour (each way) to the dealer. 75% of my test drive was in Sport+ mode and Manual via paddle shifters as that is how I would drive this car. The other 25% of the test drive consisted mostly of testing the different modes in Auto configuration (to make sure it would be suitable for my wife), as well as a bit of time in Sport mode paddle shifting.

As for why I would consider the RCF even though I think Lexus could have done better with the transmission the answer is simple. In many other categories the car is awesome! The design, both inside and out, the gauge cluster, and most of all it's the only car in class that has an NA V8!

The good of this car far outweighs the bad, but I will not pretend like it is a perfect car or there is nothing that Lexus could have or can do to improve it.

I have seen you mention that you have owned an ///M car on many occasions, but I must have missed where you said what model ///M you had. Please let us know what ///M model BMW you had. It will be much easier to understand your points if we know where you are coming from.

Not only do I disagree with you that the faster shift speeds of a DCT do not matter, but I would also like to remind you once again that we are not only discussing actual time it takes for the gear to change, but just as importantly the lack of responsiveness in the Lexus auto. Although the gear may change quickly (depending on what you are used to), on many occasion there is a hesitation between the click of the paddle and the actual change of the gear. Furthermore the auto lacks the level of feel and connection to the motor that a DCT provides, and the naughty 5.0 NA V8 deserves.

I hope now that you understand that we are discussing multiple aspects of the transmission that if improved or remedied would offer a far superior driving experience from what is currently available from the RCF.

Once again this is all relative to ones expectations. Compared to the DCT in the M4 or the PDK in the 991S the automatic transmission is slow in both reaction time and actual shift speed. This is a fact. The Aisin transmission in the RCF is inferior to the ///M-DCT in the M4 in both regards. Furthermore, a well tuned Dual Clutch transmission will offer a more connected and sporty feel while also matching an automatic for comfortable cruising and slow speed driving in stop and go traffic.

As I said above I will watch the video this weekend when I have more free time, but I do appreciate you sharing it as it looks to be well thought out and very informative.

I agree; no one buying in this category is settling, but I would imagine that owners of RCF's and M4's alike would agree that each car has room for improvement. The M4 is not perfect either. It sounds like a dirty diaper in person. As enthusiast we should be able to have discussions over what we like and don't like about each car.

Regarding your mention of issues that M4 drivers may be having I am not sure how that pertains to a thread discussing the automatic transmission in the RCF and the virtues of a dual clutch. I will agree with you that I have read several threads on the M4 boards of owners having issues with their cars, however I have read the same on this forum. As we know the M4 forum is far and away more active than this forum. For example there is an entire forum dedicated to "M4 vs." threads that is very active and interesting on the M4 boards as compared to a single thread on this forum titled "RCF automotive reviews thread" that has very little activity or meaningful discussion. Knowing that the sample size of M4 owners is much larger than that of RCF owners one could quite easily surmise that there would be more owners posting issues they may be having with their cars.

DrRick

lets not make things up. those problems you listed are no more 'commonly' occurring than the fuel pump problem with the RCF. no need to put another car down to make your choice look better...

JCtx

Having owned exactly the M3 you're driving (and a 2015 GTR), plus having lots of experience with my brother's DCT Ferraris and Porsches, you made a very valid point. And I was disappointed at first as well. But even with that disappointment still fresh, the RC-F was still the clear winner for me, and bought one. It didn't disappear until 2 things took place: First, drove the car aggressively in the twisties for the first time. It was a revelation. Upshifts were DCT quick; period. And downshifts just slightly slower, but that didn't diminish the enjoyment one bit. Gone were the annoying downshift delays, interruption of engine braking during downshifts, etc. And second, read Lexus rationale they wanted the most sophisticated drivetrain for both leisure and aggressive driving, as not to abandon what made Lexus a Lexus. And I think they suceeded. Would I still prefer a DCT? YES, but I'm probably in the minority, along with you and a few others. And only because this is my toy car, and drive it almost exclusively in manual mode, and in either sport (no fake noise), or sport+ (when I want fake noise while driving fairly aggressively). If my wife was driving it too, or exclusively her, the TC tranny is the absolute winner. The car delivers when I need to, so I don't have any issues anymore. And on the bright side, a TC tranny is dead reliable, basically maintenance-free, and you have the option to transform it into anything you want. If we label a zero the smoothest tranny on the market, and a 10 the sportiest DCT, I'd give the RC-F a range of about 3 to 9. The best DCT, Porsche IMO, I'd rate it 6 to 10. BMW 6 to 9.5. Point is the RC-F approach makes more sense since it'd be appealing to a lot more people. Me being a 10 guy, I'd prefer a PDK. But still consider this one excellent, and don't miss a DCT anymore when I'm driving aggressively. And learned to enjoy a more sophisticated driving experience when I'm not. Case in point, drove my brother's Ferrari California to the shop (not aggressively), and it was driving me NUTS. Nothing is perfect, as we all know. But this tranny is not as bad as most of us initially thought (still prefer a ZF over an Aisin though). Just give the car a chance to get acquainted with you.

ISF001

Yes, let's not make things up here: the information on M4 issues is out there and no secret--particularly to the owners.

My choice in cars is short-lived and irrelevant.

My point here: there are more significant characteristics in performance than millisecond differences in shift speed, and one needs to do much more than a "test drive" to experience the capabilities of any car--especially the new RC-F.

The engine is made to roar at high revs, and that's where the sun shines on this car.

rage2

My first test drive of the RC-F, the shifts were slow as F. Turns out, you have to let the engine/transmission temps get up to operating temperatures before it likes to shift properly. Once it does, it's nowhere near as bad as you make it sound. In fact, I'd argue that it's even more responsive than my AMG MCT automatics that I've owned over the years, which is really as close as you're going to get to dual clutch performance in an automatic transmission.

As others have noted, trying to downshift 3 gears in a row because you're in the wrong gear sucks. I just use Sport+ auto mode for when I'm not going all out, and don't need to paddle shift.

DrRick

ummmm....i AM an owner. and i made sure to do the research before i put my wife into something with a bunch of problems. other than the propensity for pebbles to get caught between the brake shield and the rotor and making an annoying noise....not ONE of the problems that you listed is a major, reported issue on any of the messageboards. and definitely not on any TSB...

feel free to prove me wrong.