No synthetic oil for RCF?
12-17-15, 09:29 AM
#76
Lexus Test Driver
My mommas better than yo momma. Lol! Getting pretty heated and personal attacks over oil! Love it. Not sure I have ever had two exact dyno readings on same car, same everything back to back, but if I can get a .78 hp increase using kyroyal gold extra scented lubricant . . . I'm there!
Last edited by DougHII; 12-17-15 at 10:35 AM.
12-17-15, 01:36 PM
#77
Synthetic oil is better than non-synthetic, and you'd have to be ignorant to argue to the contrary. Keep in mind even 1% better is better
. Therefore, the better question is HOW MUCH better. And the real question is Does the extra cost justify the difference? Depends on many things, so it's going to boil down to personal preference, just like tires, etc. But just want to clarify something: Just because somebody got 6K miles out of regular oil (unheard of), that doesn't mean you will. It depends a lot on driving conditions. Another thing is for sure: the cost of regular oil plus oil analysis is more than synthetic oil, so why bother
? It's the same argument as eating junk food and try to prove you can live as long as somebody eating healthier. Both are likely to get to either 50 years of age or 100K miles, but how about on the inside? The 'better' choices are likely to last longer, although that's impossible to quantify in real life. And it'd be well beyond what the majority of us would keep the car anyway, so a moot point.
Why do I choose synthetic? Simple. Synthetic oil has 3 clear advantages over regular: it lasts longer without breaking down, less wear during start-up, and better additive package. And I need all 3 of them since I drive around 5K miles a year in brutal weather (you shouldn't leave regular oil more than 6 months), do lots of short-distance trips, which is hard on the additive package (especially the ability to neutralize acids), and due to tons of start-ups within the OCI (oil change interval), less start-up wear is real important to me. There you have it. Could I use regular oil and be fine? Yes, but I'd have to do TWO of them, and it'd cost more than a single synthetic oil change with the extra filter. Not to mention extra labor/hassle if I didn't do it myself. So it's actually cheaper for me. But even if it wasn't, I'd still do it, just like I choose to eat healthy
.
Bottom line is no sense in trying to win an argument about this issue, especially with one guy I don't need to mention. Just educate yourself about the differences, look at your driving habits, decide on which OCI you'd need with each choice, look at the cost difference, and make a decision. NOBODY drives under your same conditions; nobody. So YOU have to make that call. Also remember NEVER to exceed the manufacturer's recommended OCI in case of engine trouble, which decreases the attractiveness of premium/boutique synthetic oils. That's why I use regular Mobil1. It's the best compromise IMO. Hope this helps.
. Therefore, the better question is HOW MUCH better. And the real question is Does the extra cost justify the difference? Depends on many things, so it's going to boil down to personal preference, just like tires, etc. But just want to clarify something: Just because somebody got 6K miles out of regular oil (unheard of), that doesn't mean you will. It depends a lot on driving conditions. Another thing is for sure: the cost of regular oil plus oil analysis is more than synthetic oil, so why bother? It's the same argument as eating junk food and try to prove you can live as long as somebody eating healthier. Both are likely to get to either 50 years of age or 100K miles, but how about on the inside? The 'better' choices are likely to last longer, although that's impossible to quantify in real life. And it'd be well beyond what the majority of us would keep the car anyway, so a moot point. Why do I choose synthetic? Simple. Synthetic oil has 3 clear advantages over regular: it lasts longer without breaking down, less wear during start-up, and better additive package. And I need all 3 of them since I drive around 5K miles a year in brutal weather (you shouldn't leave regular oil more than 6 months), do lots of short-distance trips, which is hard on the additive package (especially the ability to neutralize acids), and due to tons of start-ups within the OCI (oil change interval), less start-up wear is real important to me. There you have it. Could I use regular oil and be fine? Yes, but I'd have to do TWO of them, and it'd cost more than a single synthetic oil change with the extra filter. Not to mention extra labor/hassle if I didn't do it myself. So it's actually cheaper for me. But even if it wasn't, I'd still do it, just like I choose to eat healthy
. Bottom line is no sense in trying to win an argument about this issue, especially with one guy I don't need to mention. Just educate yourself about the differences, look at your driving habits, decide on which OCI you'd need with each choice, look at the cost difference, and make a decision. NOBODY drives under your same conditions; nobody. So YOU have to make that call. Also remember NEVER to exceed the manufacturer's recommended OCI in case of engine trouble, which decreases the attractiveness of premium/boutique synthetic oils. That's why I use regular Mobil1. It's the best compromise IMO. Hope this helps.
12-17-15, 06:50 PM
#79
Lexus Fanatic
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Under an IS F since 2008
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I really thought the "one guy" comment was hilarious.. We have dozen's of IS F owners testing their used oil & sharing their reports...
Hopefully he won’t read this post since I'm on the ignore list ? But he read my last post..?
Any who, my first test in almost 7 years & 113K miles on the clock, cost - $28
Conventional Oil is was what the 2UR-GSE motor calls for.. Period.
I am perfectly OK with others who feel the necessity to use the Synthetic.. Especially in their situations.
All I did was share my First Oil Analysis Report for all of you to have a better understanding of what they do with your used oil.
I did not post my results to sway people or to change their minds.. LoL
Happy Holidays
Joe Z
Hopefully he won’t read this post since I'm on the ignore list ? But he read my last post..?
Any who, my first test in almost 7 years & 113K miles on the clock, cost - $28
Conventional Oil is was what the 2UR-GSE motor calls for.. Period.
I am perfectly OK with others who feel the necessity to use the Synthetic.. Especially in their situations.
All I did was share my First Oil Analysis Report for all of you to have a better understanding of what they do with your used oil.
I did not post my results to sway people or to change their minds.. LoL
Happy Holidays
Joe Z
12-17-15, 09:26 PM
#80
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Too much marketing BS in this thread and it would take too long to dispel all the myths.
1. Gasoline is a commodity. Additives are the only difference. Additive packages between retailers are antagonistic, so it makes a lot of sense to run different brands of gas if you want your combustion chambers clean. Sticking to one brand is foolish unless you are keen on deposits building up in your engine.
2. Read the Official Blackstone thread in the IS F forum. There is a lot of good information in it and it's backed up by UOAs. I have the entire history of my engine documented in that thread from the first oil change to today. When you are changing 10 quarts of oil, it is economically sensible to send it for analysis if for no other reason than to determine what OCI works for your engine, your climate, and your driving patterns. Four or five quart engines make it much harder to justify analysis.
3. While it seems sensible to say the engineers who built it know more about it, the fact is, they are not driving your car in your locale and dealing with your daily commute, and their goals are not the same as yours. First and foremost, they are concerned about minimizing warranty claims because an automobile engine is not designed or built to the same standards as aircraft engines. The likelihood of a human death when an aircraft engine fails is completely different than when an automobile engine fails and the effort automotive engine designers apply to a new engine reflects this. That statement is not meant to belittle their work, because there is no doubt the manufacturers jump through massive amounts of hoops to get a new design through all the testing necessary for reliability, government regulation compliance, performance, and longevity.
4. Read this post. It's way more true than what I read in this thread.
1. Gasoline is a commodity. Additives are the only difference. Additive packages between retailers are antagonistic, so it makes a lot of sense to run different brands of gas if you want your combustion chambers clean. Sticking to one brand is foolish unless you are keen on deposits building up in your engine.
2. Read the Official Blackstone thread in the IS F forum. There is a lot of good information in it and it's backed up by UOAs. I have the entire history of my engine documented in that thread from the first oil change to today. When you are changing 10 quarts of oil, it is economically sensible to send it for analysis if for no other reason than to determine what OCI works for your engine, your climate, and your driving patterns. Four or five quart engines make it much harder to justify analysis.
3. While it seems sensible to say the engineers who built it know more about it, the fact is, they are not driving your car in your locale and dealing with your daily commute, and their goals are not the same as yours. First and foremost, they are concerned about minimizing warranty claims because an automobile engine is not designed or built to the same standards as aircraft engines. The likelihood of a human death when an aircraft engine fails is completely different than when an automobile engine fails and the effort automotive engine designers apply to a new engine reflects this. That statement is not meant to belittle their work, because there is no doubt the manufacturers jump through massive amounts of hoops to get a new design through all the testing necessary for reliability, government regulation compliance, performance, and longevity.
4. Read this post. It's way more true than what I read in this thread.
12-17-15, 10:07 PM
#81
FOOLish? Seriously, that's a bit much. Knock it off. No need for the jockin' behind the keyboard.
You put what you want in your ride - and I'll put what what I want in mine.
"Don't start no $&!^ and there won't be no $&!^!"
You put what you want in your ride - and I'll put what what I want in mine.
"Don't start no $&!^ and there won't be no $&!^!"
12-17-15, 10:38 PM
#82
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Guys, cease the rude and personal comments or exit this thread.
12-18-15, 03:12 PM
#83
I really thought the "one guy" comment was hilarious.. We have dozen's of IS F owners testing their used oil & sharing their reports...
Hopefully he won’t read this post since I'm on the ignore list ? But he read my last post..?
Any who, my first test in almost 7 years & 113K miles on the clock, cost - $28
Conventional Oil is was what the 2UR-GSE motor calls for.. Period.
I am perfectly OK with others who feel the necessity to use the Synthetic.. Especially in their situations.
All I did was share my First Oil Analysis Report for all of you to have a better understanding of what they do with your used oil.
I did not post my results to sway people or to change their minds.. LoL
Happy Holidays
Joe Z
Hopefully he won’t read this post since I'm on the ignore list ? But he read my last post..?
Any who, my first test in almost 7 years & 113K miles on the clock, cost - $28
Conventional Oil is was what the 2UR-GSE motor calls for.. Period.
I am perfectly OK with others who feel the necessity to use the Synthetic.. Especially in their situations.
All I did was share my First Oil Analysis Report for all of you to have a better understanding of what they do with your used oil.
I did not post my results to sway people or to change their minds.. LoL
Happy Holidays
Joe Z
12-20-15, 12:47 PM
#84
Spoke to my personal mechanic, an ASE certified, TOYOTA factory-trained mechanic, working at a dealership that sees heavy Lexus traffic about the 5K OCI on the ISF/RCF, as well as synthetic, etc....here's what he had to say:
"The conventional vs. synthetic debate is as old as any, and it's really not worth it getting into all of that. The fact is, engine oil - no matter what kind, is going to get pretty contaminated by 10,000 miles, regardless of viscosity or type. The most important factor here is not the viscosity/break-down but the CONTAMINATION.
Therefore, although they will not officially admit to it, has extended the oil changes on ALL of their cars to 10,000 miles/synthetic EXCEPT the "F"'s. This means that they can extend the time that they have to service the vehicles, never mind the additional contamination - which is really the most important factor.
However, for the "performance" cars, where this becomes more of an issue, they want to get people out of the "it's-synthetic-so-I-can-drive-longer-intervals-between-oil-changes mentality". They figure that this will pan out it more reliable service by the 2UR-GSE engine = less warranty issues that they would have to remedy.
Could you use Mobil One instead of conventional AT 5,000 mile OCI? Of course, it certainly is not going to hurt - and probably is "better" (whatever your definition of better is). As for me, I'm going to faithfully take my car into my Lexus dealer every 5,000 miles, and let them put whatever oil THEY recommend, which is (at least at my dealer) conventional. Could I change the oil out myself, or even take my own - more costly (synthetic) oil to them, yes...I could. But MY preference is to let them perform their factory mandated maintenance - as is. This way, there's NO WAY that ANY warranty claim could be denied. THEY did the maintenance - it's THEIR problem.
Looking at Joe Z's oil analysis after 7 years/113K miles - that's all the "scientific" proof I need to feel comfortable that conventional oil is fine. Unless the difference can be felt - performance-wise, "in the seat of my pants" (which I highly doubt) as a daily driver, then it's not worth it.
On the occasional "track day" (like I just had last week-end at Willow Springs) - then perhaps I will switch-up to Mobil One synthetic for the week-end, much like I swap out my Michelin Pilot street tires/wheels for Federal racing tires, and use $9 gal/ 100 octane racing gas for the week-end.
"The conventional vs. synthetic debate is as old as any, and it's really not worth it getting into all of that. The fact is, engine oil - no matter what kind, is going to get pretty contaminated by 10,000 miles, regardless of viscosity or type. The most important factor here is not the viscosity/break-down but the CONTAMINATION.
Therefore, although they will not officially admit to it, has extended the oil changes on ALL of their cars to 10,000 miles/synthetic EXCEPT the "F"'s. This means that they can extend the time that they have to service the vehicles, never mind the additional contamination - which is really the most important factor.
However, for the "performance" cars, where this becomes more of an issue, they want to get people out of the "it's-synthetic-so-I-can-drive-longer-intervals-between-oil-changes mentality". They figure that this will pan out it more reliable service by the 2UR-GSE engine = less warranty issues that they would have to remedy.
Could you use Mobil One instead of conventional AT 5,000 mile OCI? Of course, it certainly is not going to hurt - and probably is "better" (whatever your definition of better is). As for me, I'm going to faithfully take my car into my Lexus dealer every 5,000 miles, and let them put whatever oil THEY recommend, which is (at least at my dealer) conventional. Could I change the oil out myself, or even take my own - more costly (synthetic) oil to them, yes...I could. But MY preference is to let them perform their factory mandated maintenance - as is. This way, there's NO WAY that ANY warranty claim could be denied. THEY did the maintenance - it's THEIR problem.
Looking at Joe Z's oil analysis after 7 years/113K miles - that's all the "scientific" proof I need to feel comfortable that conventional oil is fine. Unless the difference can be felt - performance-wise, "in the seat of my pants" (which I highly doubt) as a daily driver, then it's not worth it.
On the occasional "track day" (like I just had last week-end at Willow Springs) - then perhaps I will switch-up to Mobil One synthetic for the week-end, much like I swap out my Michelin Pilot street tires/wheels for Federal racing tires, and use $9 gal/ 100 octane racing gas for the week-end.
12-20-15, 01:41 PM
#85
Don't forget.. Mobil 1 is cheaper than you think in the right places. Barely over $5/quart. $26.44 shipped for a 5 quart jug.
Last edited by jsmacks; 12-20-15 at 06:38 PM.
12-21-15, 06:21 AM
#87
I get my Mobil 1 from Amazon and it is always cheaper than from the local auto parts store, plus currently no sales tax and I'm a prime member so shipping is 2 day free and no, I'm not an Amazon employee 
12-21-15, 07:06 AM
#88
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
It's usually $26.xx at my local Wal-Mart for the 5 quart jug. Amazon looked pricey compared to that even with 7% sales tax added.
12-21-15, 07:09 AM
#89
07-13-16, 11:50 AM
#90
Wow.....this thread is like most engine oil threads outside of bobistheoilguy (BITOG) forum threads
Glad to verify the engine has dino oil from the factory.
Just got a GS-F and will be doing an oil change at 2K,5K,7.5K,10K with Shell Dino 5W-30 (costco has a case of 12 of $28 on sale) and then to Mobil 1 5W-30 at 5k intervals after that. My wife was annoyed when I bought 18 cases of shell dino oil and 20 cases of Mobil 1 this past spring when there was a huge sale but the GSF capacity will eat through that at a decent pace.
Glad to verify the engine has dino oil from the factory.
Just got a GS-F and will be doing an oil change at 2K,5K,7.5K,10K with Shell Dino 5W-30 (costco has a case of 12 of $28 on sale) and then to Mobil 1 5W-30 at 5k intervals after that. My wife was annoyed when I bought 18 cases of shell dino oil and 20 cases of Mobil 1 this past spring when there was a huge sale but the GSF capacity will eat through that at a decent pace.