Lexus is learning about supply and demand...but GSF :/
03-28-16, 04:32 PM
#16
I would pick a new car over any certified and most likely molested sports car any day of the week. I mean, no one buys the rcf to drive it like a Prius. Some guy on here in February just negotiated a 79k sticker rcf close to what you paid. But hey if you are happy with your certified rcf and the deal, who is to judge. Dealerships are not in business to lose money. Welcome to trade-in/sales price adjustment. They inflat the trade-in to make you happy and sleep better at night then make it up on the sales price.
Used models with the TVD seem to be hard to come by and mine was one of the lowest priced already. Someone bought the car, put 7,000 miles on it and took a $20k bath. I've yet to see any models with similar options and mileage in the < $60k price range, so I don't think it's fair to say they inflated the. I think it was at fair market value, maybe a bit below and I got top dollar for my trade. My guess is they sold the trade at a $3-4k profit when all was said and done.
Some dealerships work on volume, so they are willing to give better deals.
03-30-16, 06:33 AM
#17
Lead Lap
So what happens to these vehicles when they dont sell? Does lexus provide more trunk money, does the dealership make these into demos?
03-31-16, 10:43 AM
#18
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
The way I look at it, especially for 2015s, the massive discounts received for the new vehicle simply is the depreciation. Of course the dealer is eating the loss, that's why most dealers only have 1-2 or even no 2016 rcf on their lots simply bc there is no demand at that price.
The owners bought in 2015 paying close to msrp already enjoyed their car for a year already. Naturally speaking a large depreciation is expected, but the percentage was overdone caused by the surplus of leftovers.
03-31-16, 03:06 PM
#19
Lead Lap
Sooner or later a buyer will come through with the right price offered by the dealer.
The way I look at it, especially for 2015s, the massive discounts received for the new vehicle simply is the depreciation. Of course the dealer is eating the loss, that's why most dealers only have 1-2 or even no 2016 rcf on their lots simply bc there is no demand at that price.
The owners bought in 2015 paying close to msrp already enjoyed their car for a year already. Naturally speaking a large depreciation is expected, but the percentage was overdone caused by the surplus of leftovers.
The way I look at it, especially for 2015s, the massive discounts received for the new vehicle simply is the depreciation. Of course the dealer is eating the loss, that's why most dealers only have 1-2 or even no 2016 rcf on their lots simply bc there is no demand at that price.
The owners bought in 2015 paying close to msrp already enjoyed their car for a year already. Naturally speaking a large depreciation is expected, but the percentage was overdone caused by the surplus of leftovers.
04-01-16, 05:57 AM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
Are any Lexus models really doing that well? I know the GX and LX are pretty difficult to keep in stock and the ES sells pretty well with the retirement folks, but is anything else non-SUV moving? The new ISs, GSs, LSs and RCs in general seem to be a bit of a flop across the board.
Don't think the issue is just performance line and, candidly, Lexus will likely never be able to fully penetrate the performance line market dominated by the Germans. Try as they might, thus market is just not drawn to the Japenese styling and approach to performance vehicles.
As much as I like the LC-LF and considered getting one, I will certainly go back to Porsche turbo before spending comparable $$$ on a Lexus.
In the past, I was never concerned about value retention, perhaps because my cars always held their value well and some have appreciated in value while I owned them or sold them for more than I paid for them. Not so with the RCF. This could be one of those cars that many get stuck with or take a huge monetary bath in just trying to get it out of it and get into another car.
Lol, we all could have drive Porsche turbos for overall less outlay than what the RCFs are going to ultimately soak us for.
Don't think the issue is just performance line and, candidly, Lexus will likely never be able to fully penetrate the performance line market dominated by the Germans. Try as they might, thus market is just not drawn to the Japenese styling and approach to performance vehicles.
As much as I like the LC-LF and considered getting one, I will certainly go back to Porsche turbo before spending comparable $$$ on a Lexus.
In the past, I was never concerned about value retention, perhaps because my cars always held their value well and some have appreciated in value while I owned them or sold them for more than I paid for them. Not so with the RCF. This could be one of those cars that many get stuck with or take a huge monetary bath in just trying to get it out of it and get into another car.
Lol, we all could have drive Porsche turbos for overall less outlay than what the RCFs are going to ultimately soak us for.
Last edited by DougHII; 04-01-16 at 06:01 AM.
04-01-16, 08:00 AM
#21
Are any Lexus models really doing that well? I know the GX and LX are pretty difficult to keep in stock and the ES sells pretty well with the retirement folks, but is anything else non-SUV moving? The new ISs, GSs, LSs and RCs in general seem to be a bit of a flop across the board.
Don't think the issue is just performance line and, candidly, Lexus will likely never be able to fully penetrate the performance line market dominated by the Germans. Try as they might, thus market is just not drawn to the Japenese styling and approach to performance vehicles.
As much as I like the LC-LF and considered getting one, I will certainly go back to Porsche turbo before spending comparable $$$ on a Lexus.
In the past, I was never concerned about value retention, perhaps because my cars always held their value well and some have appreciated in value while I owned them or sold them for more than I paid for them. Not so with the RCF. This could be one of those cars that many get stuck with or take a huge monetary bath in just trying to get it out of it and get into another car.
Lol, we all could have drive Porsche turbos for overall less outlay than what the RCFs are going to ultimately soak us for.
Don't think the issue is just performance line and, candidly, Lexus will likely never be able to fully penetrate the performance line market dominated by the Germans. Try as they might, thus market is just not drawn to the Japenese styling and approach to performance vehicles.
As much as I like the LC-LF and considered getting one, I will certainly go back to Porsche turbo before spending comparable $$$ on a Lexus.
In the past, I was never concerned about value retention, perhaps because my cars always held their value well and some have appreciated in value while I owned them or sold them for more than I paid for them. Not so with the RCF. This could be one of those cars that many get stuck with or take a huge monetary bath in just trying to get it out of it and get into another car.
Lol, we all could have drive Porsche turbos for overall less outlay than what the RCFs are going to ultimately soak us for.
04-01-16, 08:45 AM
#22
Driver School Candidate
Are any Lexus models really doing that well? I know the GX and LX are pretty difficult to keep in stock and the ES sells pretty well with the retirement folks, but is anything else non-SUV moving? The new ISs, GSs, LSs and RCs in general seem to be a bit of a flop across the board.
Don't think the issue is just performance line and, candidly, Lexus will likely never be able to fully penetrate the performance line market dominated by the Germans. Try as they might, thus market is just not drawn to the Japenese styling and approach to performance vehicles.
As much as I like the LC-LF and considered getting one, I will certainly go back to Porsche turbo before spending comparable $$$ on a Lexus.
In the past, I was never concerned about value retention, perhaps because my cars always held their value well and some have appreciated in value while I owned them or sold them for more than I paid for them. Not so with the RCF. This could be one of those cars that many get stuck with or take a huge monetary bath in just trying to get it out of it and get into another car.
Lol, we all could have drive Porsche turbos for overall less outlay than what the RCFs are going to ultimately soak us for.
Don't think the issue is just performance line and, candidly, Lexus will likely never be able to fully penetrate the performance line market dominated by the Germans. Try as they might, thus market is just not drawn to the Japenese styling and approach to performance vehicles.
As much as I like the LC-LF and considered getting one, I will certainly go back to Porsche turbo before spending comparable $$$ on a Lexus.
In the past, I was never concerned about value retention, perhaps because my cars always held their value well and some have appreciated in value while I owned them or sold them for more than I paid for them. Not so with the RCF. This could be one of those cars that many get stuck with or take a huge monetary bath in just trying to get it out of it and get into another car.
Lol, we all could have drive Porsche turbos for overall less outlay than what the RCFs are going to ultimately soak us for.
BMW moves sedans like crazy, but they have worked themselves to fit a high volume model. Lexus and MB dont really follow that business model. In my area, the IS and ES actually seem to do pretty well, but still nothing like the number of BMWs I see.
04-01-16, 10:36 AM
#23
Lexus Test Driver
Lexus sales were up overall according to report I read a month or so ago. The entire market is moving towards crossovers, though. Thats why they made the NX. Along with the RX, those are the bulk of their sales. Toyota knows this and is increasing production capacity for the RAV4 as well. I think the sales of their sedan were down a bit, but that is a common trend across all brands at the moment.
BMW moves sedans like crazy, but they have worked themselves to fit a high volume model. Lexus and MB dont really follow that business model. In my area, the IS and ES actually seem to do pretty well, but still nothing like the number of BMWs I see.
BMW moves sedans like crazy, but they have worked themselves to fit a high volume model. Lexus and MB dont really follow that business model. In my area, the IS and ES actually seem to do pretty well, but still nothing like the number of BMWs I see.
The new Mercedes SUVs are apparently moving. Local dealer cannot keep them in stock. Wife is trying to get a GLE Coupe.
Looks like the IS, ES and LS was off between 10 to 17% last year and the RX and LX were down as well.
https://lexusenthusiast.com/2016/01/...-sales-report/
i bet 2016 will be down also.
04-01-16, 11:58 AM
#24
Driver School Candidate
Yes, the NX does sell well. It is an entry level vehicle with a Lexus badge that looks pretty decent. IS are not selling well at all here or in this area.
The new Mercedes SUVs are apparently moving. Local dealer cannot keep them in stock. Wife is trying to get a GLE Coupe.
Looks like the IS, ES and LS was off between 10 to 17% last year and the RX and LX were down as well.
https://lexusenthusiast.com/2016/01/...-sales-report/
i bet 2016 will be down also.
The new Mercedes SUVs are apparently moving. Local dealer cannot keep them in stock. Wife is trying to get a GLE Coupe.
Looks like the IS, ES and LS was off between 10 to 17% last year and the RX and LX were down as well.
https://lexusenthusiast.com/2016/01/...-sales-report/
i bet 2016 will be down also.
I do think where you live has a huge impact on how well particular cars sells compared to others. My local Lexus dealership is spoiled, they sell plenty of cars. Except for the GS F and RC F lol
04-01-16, 12:01 PM
#25
Pman is spot on. Cars in general are declining in sales compared to SUV's. Porsche sales are shifting to more SUV's. Porsche is coming out with a turbo 4 cylinder Macan. I do not buy new cars as investments, so I could care less about year one resale value. I buy Lexus because of how well the dealer treats me and takes care of problems I might get. The German car dealers... at least around me... pale in comparison.
04-03-16, 05:21 PM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
The RCF and GSF are pretty damn pricey . They need to offer a better car for a better price . Now its a slower car for a similar price . At this level in the game owners wants bragging rights when dropping 75-85k on a sorts car or sports sedan .
04-03-16, 07:55 PM
#27
Pman is spot on. Cars in general are declining in sales compared to SUV's. Porsche sales are shifting to more SUV's. Porsche is coming out with a turbo 4 cylinder Macan. I do not buy new cars as investments, so I could care less about year one resale value. I buy Lexus because of how well the dealer treats me and takes care of problems I might get. The German car dealers... at least around me... pale in comparison.
If not for the RCF aesthetic and V8/Aisin drivetrain, I'd be in a German coupe. I like the GSF and would love to see one cleanly modded on the roads. It's the newer incarnation of the E39 M5 that BMW could never build.
Price is not one of the determining factors of slow GSF sales. Even at $15K under MSRP, I conjecture that it'd still suffer. People just don't associate F with motorsport and performance yet. It'll take time and if there's any company w/ the war chest to stay in the race, it's Toyota. I think at some point they'll have to decide as a group whether to risk the R&D to out-innovate M, AMG and to a lesser extent the ultra low volume RS. Then it becomes a question of what is Lexus now?
Good luck to them.
Last edited by CYKBC; 04-03-16 at 08:02 PM.
04-03-16, 10:51 PM
#28
Lexus Test Driver
Cadillac has 640hp in the CTS V just to make a case for itself vs the Germans AND at a lower cost.
Lexus has poor marketing folks to think that ppl care about overpriced 467hp 4 door sedan that looks exactly like a regular GS Fsport that costs $50k. It needs to give it at least 600hp for the target market to even take a look.
Lexus has poor marketing folks to think that ppl care about overpriced 467hp 4 door sedan that looks exactly like a regular GS Fsport that costs $50k. It needs to give it at least 600hp for the target market to even take a look.
04-04-16, 05:45 AM
#29
Lexus Test Driver
Pman is spot on. Cars in general are declining in sales compared to SUV's. Porsche sales are shifting to more SUV's. Porsche is coming out with a turbo 4 cylinder Macan. I do not buy new cars as investments, so I could care less about year one resale value. I buy Lexus because of how well the dealer treats me and takes care of problems I might get. The German car dealers... at least around me... pale in comparison.
Anyway, that is over $2,000 a month not counting $3k in brakes, $2k in tires, 1k in services. I could be in a lot of much nicer, more expensive cars that are decently liquid for that amount. At the end of the day, the RCF is a decent car, but lesson learned straying outside my comfort level and going with an off brand or Japenese in the performance market.
RE: Service
What German cars have bad service? My primary experience with Porsche who has phenomenal service and they have been bullet proof from my experience with them over the years. With the exception of wife driving a C2 a while back and a Cayenne, I have had turbos and GT cars since 90s so I avoided the RMS and IMS issues with the M96 engines.
Bimmer had decent service. The problem with them was I got to know them too well because my M3 car was in the shop a lot.
Mercedes has excellent service.
Lexus service was actually a bit slow at getting cars back or meeting deadlines and not real good at pointing out issues timely, such as brake wear, which could handled at a 5k interval rather than making me bring it back in again between a 5k interval.
Lexus service seems woefully in knowledgeable about product such as the RCF and is pretty much clueless about the car and the issues it is having.
Not sure I see this Lexus service is tops or Lexus IS most reliable argument when it comes to the newer non-granny wagon stuff that actually is meant to have some stress placed on it.
04-04-16, 05:52 AM
#30
Lexus Test Driver
Cadillac has 640hp in the CTS V just to make a case for itself vs the Germans AND at a lower cost.
Lexus has poor marketing folks to think that ppl care about overpriced 467hp 4 door sedan that looks exactly like a regular GS Fsport that costs $50k. It needs to give it at least 600hp for the target market to even take a look.
Lexus has poor marketing folks to think that ppl care about overpriced 467hp 4 door sedan that looks exactly like a regular GS Fsport that costs $50k. It needs to give it at least 600hp for the target market to even take a look.
Cadilac is a whole different story. Those could have a 1,000 hp and it still would not be desirable. It ain't all about ho or performance even in the oerformance market. If it was, no one would buy most of the really cool and fun sports cars out there.