Deanrcf

iTrader: (1)

Spot on Doug. If I am in the market for a used sedan in a few years, I would consider the Gsf over anything from the Germans. I'm not convinced about BMW's turbos and Mercedes reliability after 6 years.

mjeds

Mustang
Camaro
Challenger
Charger
Corvette (Base)

Are all between $45K and $60K and all are equal to or out perform the RCF, with the exception of the Challenger they all weigh less, they all have equal options, However the build quality, and the quality of the materials is far less on these American cars, they are also more prone to warranty related issues and repairs where the Lexus for the most part is not.

People looking for bang for the buck performance will go with one of the American muscle cars, and they will trade up every couple of years and take the depreciation in the shorts because for them it isn't about Luxury or even longevity, it is about power ad more power. it's the Tim Taylor syndrome. MORE POWER.

DougHII

Interesting. These cars do not even come to mind when I think of alternatives to the RCF. I think we are talking completely different market demographics. I did recently have a new Camero SS as a rental car on a business trip. I thought it was fun for a rental, but never thought " Man, I want one of these." I put that sucker in Track mode and drove the hell out of it the whole time though and drifted it a bit a time or two on some exit ramps.

Davew77

The Corvette was one car I was considering before I bought the RC F. Along with the Jaguar F-Type and the Porsche Cayman S.


The others in that list I don't consider to be sports cars. Let alone luxury sports cars. I consider them drag racers.

mjeds

I would agree with the "drag car" comment for the Challenger/Charger, and the Mustang - The Corvette and the Camaro are track cars more than 1/4 mile cars.

people do cross shop these models, I did and I have seen several threads on this board and the mustang and Camaro boards indicating the same.

IMO the RCF is not a 'sports car' a sports car only seats 2, it has no back seat.. a sport coupe or a muscle car will have a back seat..

I am a long time GM fan; since 1986 I have owned 20+ GM products, 1 Chrysler and 1 Ford, the RCF is the first new non-American car I have ever purchased, but American cars in general are not Luxury cars,, maybe Cadillac, but frankly they are no where near the level of Lexus, BMW, Jag, or MBZ, though they try to compete with their marketing and pricing IMO Cadillacs are nothing more than upgraded Chevy's and Chevy for the most part are low quality cars when compared to anything imported.

but bang for the buck power wise, American muscle cars have better performance than the RCF and GSF for an equal or less price, which is the statement I was addressing:

a Hell-Cat Challenger competes price wise with the RCF and out performs it and has equal options
a Hell-Cat Charger competes price wise with the GSF and again out performs it and has equal options.

but compare the Luxury side, the material and build quality, Lexus is far ahead. Because at the end of the day a Challenger or a Charger is still a Dodge, and Dodge has never been known and still are not known for quality.

but again I am addressing the question asked, what other cars with better performance for less price.

Davew77

Fair enough.

I have also owned several GM products in the past. I've owned 3 Camaros and I tracked all 3 at the drag strip regularly. I have not owned one of the new versions, I owned pre-2002 models. Those cars were certainly built for the drag strip. The handling in corners and high speed left a lot to be desired. The rear end felt like it was flying at 160 mph.

mjeds

agreed, but the Gen 5 and Gen 6 are track cars, they do ok at a drag, but they were designed for an auto-cross or course track, not a straight line, a fact reiterated by GM since the Gen 5 was announced, and they share a lot of components and design features with the Corvette.

I've owned a 1978, 1982, 2002 Camaro and/or Trans Am, and yeah those were rigid straight line mash the gas and go fast cars, they were not designed as course cars.

Slash300zx

Like mjeds said, the Corvette, the Mustang Shelby GT350 etc etc... they have about the same or even better performance than the RC-F, they cost less but lack the quality and luxury of the RC-F which is why most people would choose the RC-F.... you take all the bells and whistles away from the RC-F and I probably wouldn't be interested in getting one because I'm not looking for a race car, I'm looking for a comfortable, luxury sports car that I can daily drive without problems. And lets face it, the great majority of people didn't get one to take it to the track and race it every day, they got it to drive it in the city, to go to work, to take it out for a drive on the weekend etc etc... so they don't care about loosing all the bells and whistles so they can go 3 tenths of a second faster and have a better performance on some magazine than the competition. But you are right on one thing, folding mirrors or seat ventilation won't stop me from wanting the car, but I still wish they would include it on the 2017 'cause I would get those options

Davew77

Then I guess I learned something new today. I still considered the Camaro a drag car.


But in any event, I still do not class them with the RC F. Even if they are capable of beating it. I could have gotten a slightly used ZR1 for under $50k and maybe even as low as $40k. There's more to the RC F than just power and numbers, at least for me. If I had went with GM it would have been for the Vette (not a base model).

mjeds

I feel the same way, I had a Gen 5 Camaro, it was very problematic and was bought back under Lemon Law, I loved to drive the car, when it ran, but after fighting the same problem for 3 years I finally forced a lemon law buy back.

I cross shopped the Corvette as well as the Hell-cat Challenger and the Mustang GT350 with the RCF.. all were great, but my problem was the total let down in the last 4 American cars I have bought, 2 being bought back under lemon law and 1 that didn't qualify for lemon law but was highly problematic and had more than $25K in warranty work done (thank god for extended warranties). I was burned out on American cars, during that 10 year period my wife drove her Camry and it never once saw a dealership for anything.

DougHII

I really like the F-Type and live all Porsches. I needed a functional back seat for a child with my daily driver.

Davew77

I hear ya. I really liked the body style of the Cayman S but I liked the sound and HP of the N/A V8 RC F over the Cayman S. I also felt that I was getting more for my money with the RC F (as well as less maintenance costs). I was really close to pulling the trigger on a silver Cayman S though (sport chrono package, manual tranny, PASM)... I hear that it's an amazing car performance-wise.


As for the F-type, I only liked the V8 model and just couldn't bring myself to pay that much for a car. So that choice was made quickly.


I am happy that I purchased the RC F. The back seat helps me too. Since I contract all over the country and I have to take a lot of luggage with me. I know that it all fits. I don't know if I could have fit everything I needed into the Porsche. I also feel that this RC F gets more attention than the Cayman would have. I've seen a few Cayman since I bought my RC F, but still haven't seen any other RC F. I like having things that are less common.

DougHII

I am not that attracted to Cayman either. I am a 911 guy and we have a 997 cab for weekends. I was drawn the the RCF because it was different and looked really cool.

Those American muscle cars to me are just not attractive and it speaks volumes that these companies had to revert to a late 60s and early 70s design to make a product that was somewhat easy desireable.

That said, I would have and drive an original Camero SS or Mustang, but I don't find any of the new American muscle cars the least bit desirable at any price. These cars are a completely different target market than what Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Porsche are targeting and I doubt very many truly and comfortably in this market are cross-shopping American muscle cars.

Lexura1414

iTrader: (6)

For 2 minutes, I considered the the Mustang GT350. That's it. Never even looked at the Camaro SS which I heard beat out the M4. You are correct that they have a different target market.

Davew77

I've never owned a 981 or a 911 (I almost bought a loaded 981). But from what I read the 981 is actually a more balanced car due to the placement of the engine being more near the center of the chassis instead of at the rear. It has the same flat 6 engine as the 911, just tuned down. So from what I gather with a little bit of aftermarket work the 981 is actually a better sports car than the 911. I'm not trying to start a war, just stating my impressions.

But yes, I was also drawn to the uniqueness of the RC F. I prefer to be different and not follow the crowd. That's probably true for a lot of RC F owners.