*sigh* Lexus "quality" well maybe.. Dealer Quality - not so much.
08-15-16, 09:55 AM
#46
Lexus Test Driver
So, what you are saying is that the dealer you mentioned is making money, but just not as much as he would liked OVERALL. Maybe that dealert instead of investing ALL their money in the fancy building, should have used some of that money and INVEST IN ITS PEOPLE/EMPLOYEES to get them to do a better job at customer service. Yes, when a business has multiple locations, there are times when one location will lag behind and "not making it". Precisely what had happened to many other businesses across the globe. Specific example is StarBucks. A few years ago SB closed multiple locations due to duplication and nonperformance. SB stressed customer service AND INCREASED EMPLOYEE PAY AND BENEFITS!!! At the same time prices in the stores had shot up too. I don't mind paying higher prices for a good cup of coffee or whatever drink, but when I walk into a SB I expect EXCELLENT service no matter where that SB is located. This is my point. So if THAT (YOUR) CAR DEALER CAN NOT PROVIDE GOOD SERVICE, MAYBE HE/SHE NEEDS TO GIVE IT UP AND LET SOMEONE ELSE TAKE OVER AND TRY IT OUT.
There is just no excuse for bad service, even in a competitive market.
Enron was just a total fraud, as you already know.
Your last comment about JUST GET USE TO DECLINING SERVICE???? What!!!??? You lawyers would have a field day with this one!!! How about the folllowing senario......Chevy says "Hey, the reason your ignition switch failed in your Chevy Cobalt is because we were not making enough money at our GM HQ. Yeah, we knew the ignition switches failing long before actual production, but it was just too costly to STOP the press and redo. So we just went ahead with the original design. BTW, we had calculated we will actually come out way ahead money wise by going ahead with the original design and deal with the failures if and when people found out!!!"
WHAT!!!??? I just need to get used to YOUR supposedly declining profits (and your subsequent illogical reason for "declining service/quality") so that you TOP BRASS people/CEO can line yourselves with deep pockets with all the cash!!! I don't think the above logic will fly with most people with at least with some basic intelligence.
Another senario: In your example of the car dealer not making it in ONE store, but IS making it in another store and uses that to offset thd nonperformanING store. So just imagine I take my car (branded XYZ) to the nonperformaNing store and got bad service and only to be told, "Hey, this store is not making it because the owner's spent too much on the fancy building and THAT WAS why you got BAD service. Had you gone to our sister store across town, we would have given you EXCELLENT service for the same price (maybe even cheaper). Or you can come back later in 15 years, the building will be PAID OFF and THEN we can give you EXCELLENT service!!!!"
My point is again:
There is just no excuse for bad service, even in a competitive market
There is just no excuse for bad service, even in a competitive market.
Enron was just a total fraud, as you already know.
Your last comment about JUST GET USE TO DECLINING SERVICE???? What!!!??? You lawyers would have a field day with this one!!! How about the folllowing senario......Chevy says "Hey, the reason your ignition switch failed in your Chevy Cobalt is because we were not making enough money at our GM HQ. Yeah, we knew the ignition switches failing long before actual production, but it was just too costly to STOP the press and redo. So we just went ahead with the original design. BTW, we had calculated we will actually come out way ahead money wise by going ahead with the original design and deal with the failures if and when people found out!!!"
WHAT!!!??? I just need to get used to YOUR supposedly declining profits (and your subsequent illogical reason for "declining service/quality") so that you TOP BRASS people/CEO can line yourselves with deep pockets with all the cash!!! I don't think the above logic will fly with most people with at least with some basic intelligence.
Another senario: In your example of the car dealer not making it in ONE store, but IS making it in another store and uses that to offset thd nonperformanING store. So just imagine I take my car (branded XYZ) to the nonperformaNing store and got bad service and only to be told, "Hey, this store is not making it because the owner's spent too much on the fancy building and THAT WAS why you got BAD service. Had you gone to our sister store across town, we would have given you EXCELLENT service for the same price (maybe even cheaper). Or you can come back later in 15 years, the building will be PAID OFF and THEN we can give you EXCELLENT service!!!!"
My point is again:
There is just no excuse for bad service, even in a competitive market
I agree my get "used to it" was probably open to wrong interpretation. As I said before, I am not saying there is an excuse for poor service or that anyone should ever receive poor service, but only that poorer service may soon become the nature of the beast and there is not much that can be done about it. As I said, wage cuts result in loss of better staff and attract less desirable people.
Heard just last night (wife is in the industry and we were having dinner with others in the industry) that dealership profit margins per unit sold in 2015 were around 2% so I was not too far off when I told they guy who said there was a $15k profit margins on a $50k car that it would be more like about 10% of his $15k number. Front end gross is literally in the $100s and most of the 2% per unit profit is back end (F&I) side. . . Apparently, 2016 per unit margins are running even lower. Revenues are up due to volume, but profits are being squeezed real bad. Dealers are sacrificing front-end to move units and hopefully use volume to create F&I and service opportunities.
I thought the 2% sounded a bit low so I just did a quick search for dealership profit margins and got an article that seems to confirm what they are saying:
___________
According to the second annual TrueCar Buyer Study, which surveyed more than 3,000 people, consumers think car dealers are raking in the dough -- at their expense. The average car buyer believes that car dealers make about a 20% profit on the sale of a $30,000 car, but believe that a 10% to 12% profit is actually fair. What’s more, more than one in four car buyers feel they overpaid for their new car and nearly one in three would not return to the same dealership because of the shoddy customer service. . . .
But the reality of the situation is different. The average pretax profit margins for car dealerships was just 2.2% last year, down from 2.3% a year prior, according to the National Automobile Dealers Association 2013 report -- and this year, that pretax profit margin is expected to remain at 2.2%. And the net profit that dealers earned last year from each new vehicle was just $69 for new cars and $254 per used vehicle (OK, so maybe used car salesmen are a little sleazier) -- not exactly the thousands of dollars many of us imagine and lower than the net profits dealers realized just a decade ago. “There’s been a pinch in profit margins,” says Brandon Ruiz, a lead analyst with IBISWorld. “They’re low compared to pre-recession levels.”
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/car...ink-2014-07-08
08-15-16, 09:58 AM
#47
Pole Position
Yes, the dash cams are easily defeated. I think a way to still win and get evidence (if still want to take the car to that dealer and overkill) is to set up decoys. Meaning the OBVIOUS dash cam in plain view that was defeated is not the only recorder. Set up at least three more much smaller micro units in different point of views , especially at the back of the car pointing toward the front. These smaller units will show that the tech disconnected the main dash unit and the subsequent beating on the car.
But if you are already suspecting abuse, why take your baby there?
But if you are already suspecting abuse, why take your baby there?
08-15-16, 10:08 AM
#48
Lexus Test Driver
Love the no way am I letting those degenerate, service lowlife hoodlums touch my IS200t as the are obviously salivating at the opportunity to take a IS200t around the block and beat on it . . . We had a young newer Lexus service tech and his wife and child over for dinner not too long ago and he had a new IS350 and an NX so I doubt he is going to risk his job for the chance to go crazy in an IS200t. I am just not in the same camp as you guys worried about someone joy riding in an RCF and the car was probably driven much harder on test drivers before you purchased it.
The oil overfill is interesting. I candidly have never once checked my oil level in my car. Is oil amount programmed into a machine possibly incorrectly so everyone is getting a little bit too much or is that a human error issue where service tech is actually opening cans and dumping them in?
The oil overfill is interesting. I candidly have never once checked my oil level in my car. Is oil amount programmed into a machine possibly incorrectly so everyone is getting a little bit too much or is that a human error issue where service tech is actually opening cans and dumping them in?
Last edited by DougHII; 08-15-16 at 10:13 AM.
08-15-16, 10:49 AM
#50
Lots of good information on this thread . It all comes down to the person aka technician if he respects other people's property and is honest . Which know a days you don't see often.
08-16-16, 09:34 AM
#51
Pole Position
On the oil over fill. .... most big shops has a hose with a dial. The tech dials the desired amount and off it pumps the oil in. If it is off calibration, then over or under fill occurs.
Another possibility is that the tech does not wait for the oil to completely drain out? This is less likly, I think.
Yet another possibility is the tech "sucks" the oil out via a catheter. I don't think this is how Lexus HQ specifically calls for this. MB specifically calls for this method in all of MB non-AMG models. So if the catheter was not inserted ALL the way in, then the tech will not be able to SUCK ALL the oil out. Although the tech is suppose to measure how much he had sucked out. But this is rarely done bc one has to remember the "oil sucker" is the lowest paying and the least experienced person in the entire shop.
You would be surprised how often over fill or under fill happens. I always check before I leave the dealer's lot.
Another possibility is that the tech does not wait for the oil to completely drain out? This is less likly, I think.
Yet another possibility is the tech "sucks" the oil out via a catheter. I don't think this is how Lexus HQ specifically calls for this. MB specifically calls for this method in all of MB non-AMG models. So if the catheter was not inserted ALL the way in, then the tech will not be able to SUCK ALL the oil out. Although the tech is suppose to measure how much he had sucked out. But this is rarely done bc one has to remember the "oil sucker" is the lowest paying and the least experienced person in the entire shop.
You would be surprised how often over fill or under fill happens. I always check before I leave the dealer's lot.
Love the no way am I letting those degenerate, service lowlife hoodlums touch my IS200t as the are obviously salivating at the opportunity to take a IS200t around the block and beat on it . . . We had a young newer Lexus service tech and his wife and child over for dinner not too long ago and he had a new IS350 and an NX so I doubt he is going to risk his job for the chance to go crazy in an IS200t. I am just not in the same camp as you guys worried about someone joy riding in an RCF and the car was probably driven much harder on test drivers before you purchased it.
The oil overfill is interesting. I candidly have never once checked my oil level in my car. Is oil amount programmed into a machine possibly incorrectly so everyone is getting a little bit too much or is that a human error issue where service tech is actually opening cans and dumping them in?
The oil overfill is interesting. I candidly have never once checked my oil level in my car. Is oil amount programmed into a machine possibly incorrectly so everyone is getting a little bit too much or is that a human error issue where service tech is actually opening cans and dumping them in?
Last edited by lexusrus; 08-16-16 at 09:40 AM.
08-16-16, 09:37 AM
#52
Pole Position
08-17-16, 08:43 AM
#53
Lexus Test Driver
On the oil over fill. .... most big shops has a hose with a dial. The tech dials the desired amount and off it pumps the oil in. If it is off calibration, then over or under fill occurs.
Another possibility is that the tech does not wait for the oil to completely drain out? This is less likly, I think.
Yet another possibility is the tech "sucks" the oil out via a catheter. I don't think this is how Lexus HQ specifically calls for this. MB specifically calls for this method in all of MB non-AMG models. So if the catheter was not inserted ALL the way in, then the tech will not be able to SUCK ALL the oil out. Although the tech is suppose to measure how much he had sucked out. But this is rarely done bc one has to remember the "oil sucker" is the lowest paying and the least experienced person in the entire shop.
You would be surprised how often over fill or under fill happens. I always check before I leave the dealer's lot.
Another possibility is that the tech does not wait for the oil to completely drain out? This is less likly, I think.
Yet another possibility is the tech "sucks" the oil out via a catheter. I don't think this is how Lexus HQ specifically calls for this. MB specifically calls for this method in all of MB non-AMG models. So if the catheter was not inserted ALL the way in, then the tech will not be able to SUCK ALL the oil out. Although the tech is suppose to measure how much he had sucked out. But this is rarely done bc one has to remember the "oil sucker" is the lowest paying and the least experienced person in the entire shop.
You would be surprised how often over fill or under fill happens. I always check before I leave the dealer's lot.
Hose with a dial is what I have always seen. They punch in some numbers and fill it up. My question is, were they punching in RC F or a code for the RC F or punching in the exact volume of oil. If punching in by car, then the overfill would be consistent on every RC F each and every time.
Then again, if we are taking a 1/4 quart or something small or too small to trigger the warning light, does it really matter?
Last edited by DougHII; 08-17-16 at 08:54 AM.
08-17-16, 09:04 AM
#54
Lexus Test Driver
Lots O changes coming due to tiny profit margins . . . heard something just yesterday about yet another change in compensation structure coming soon to a dealer near you one of the big corporate chains. Shareholder greed over car owner need.
Lol, used to pitch it to the juries as "shareholder greed over resident need" . . . in the nursing home cases I used to litigate. It is that way in all industries once the corporate chains take over.
08-17-16, 09:16 AM
#55
Lexus Test Driver
I would take my race cars (Porsches and a Lotus) in before every track day to change tires, oil, brake fluid and run full track inspections and fix anything needing attention. They had replaced engines for me and transmissions for me. They also did routine services for me. I knew the guys at the local Independent shops, but actually liked the dealership tech guys better.
That said, I had an independent shop do my brakes, rotors and replace a windshield recently as I candidly don't have the warm and fuzzies about Lexus anything except my RC F.
Last edited by DougHII; 08-17-16 at 09:20 AM.
08-23-16, 04:08 PM
#56
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Well 3 weeks after my complaint to Lexus I finally received a call from them.
basically a sarcastic little **** with a bad attitude that told me there is nothing they can or will do as dealerships are privately run and Lexus is not responsible for the actions of the dealership employees, nor do they intervene or comment on employee actions.
In other words f-you we don't care.
dealership is aware of the complaint but has made no attempt to contact me.
basically a sarcastic little **** with a bad attitude that told me there is nothing they can or will do as dealerships are privately run and Lexus is not responsible for the actions of the dealership employees, nor do they intervene or comment on employee actions.
In other words f-you we don't care.
dealership is aware of the complaint but has made no attempt to contact me.
08-23-16, 05:51 PM
#57
Lead Lap
Well 3 weeks after my complaint to Lexus I finally received a call from them.
basically a sarcastic little **** with a bad attitude that told me there is nothing they can or will do as dealerships are privately run and Lexus is not responsible for the actions of the dealership employees, nor do they intervene or comment on employee actions.
In other words f-you we don't care.
dealership is aware of the complaint but has made no attempt to contact me.
basically a sarcastic little **** with a bad attitude that told me there is nothing they can or will do as dealerships are privately run and Lexus is not responsible for the actions of the dealership employees, nor do they intervene or comment on employee actions.
In other words f-you we don't care.
dealership is aware of the complaint but has made no attempt to contact me.
08-23-16, 09:22 PM
#58
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
yeah, I don't expect much from that. Lexus doesn't care.
I will try another dealer, not expecting much of a different attitude.. I suspect a good part of the problem is where I live. People here don't have much respect for themselves much less anyone else.
I just spent 3 weeks in CO, TX, TN, and GA, it's amazing how different the overall attitude toward others is compared to CA. TN and GA were the nicest places, the people seemed to be much more respectful and considerate of others.
08-24-16, 01:18 AM
#59
Lead Lap
yeah, I don't expect much from that. Lexus doesn't care.
I will try another dealer, not expecting much of a different attitude.. I suspect a good part of the problem is where I live. People here don't have much respect for themselves much less anyone else.
I just spent 3 weeks in CO, TX, TN, and GA, it's amazing how different the overall attitude toward others is compared to CA. TN and GA were the nicest places, the people seemed to be much more respectful and considerate of others.
I will try another dealer, not expecting much of a different attitude.. I suspect a good part of the problem is where I live. People here don't have much respect for themselves much less anyone else.
I just spent 3 weeks in CO, TX, TN, and GA, it's amazing how different the overall attitude toward others is compared to CA. TN and GA were the nicest places, the people seemed to be much more respectful and considerate of others.
Luckily my local dealer back home has always been good to me. But if not... There's another Lexus dealer in Tampa, or I could drive to Orlando or Miami if I had to.
We have to hit them in the wallet if anything is ever going to change. Dealers like that don't deserve to be in business. I wouldn't be too happy with Lexus CS either. The dealer is wearing their name...
08-24-16, 09:12 AM
#60
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I meant for people like us to see it. I would purposely avoid that dealer if I lived in that area. I would even go to a Toyota dealer if I had to rather than visit that dealer again. (I had to go to Toyota for my last service since I'm in the sticks on a contract right now, but they did it right)
Luckily my local dealer back home has always been good to me. But if not... There's another Lexus dealer in Tampa, or I could drive to Orlando or Miami if I had to.
We have to hit them in the wallet if anything is ever going to change. Dealers like that don't deserve to be in business. I wouldn't be too happy with Lexus CS either. The dealer is wearing their name...
Luckily my local dealer back home has always been good to me. But if not... There's another Lexus dealer in Tampa, or I could drive to Orlando or Miami if I had to.
We have to hit them in the wallet if anything is ever going to change. Dealers like that don't deserve to be in business. I wouldn't be too happy with Lexus CS either. The dealer is wearing their name...
*shrug* I will caulk it off to a bad experience, but not expect anything better elsewhere. Expect the worst and hope for the best.. a negative attitude I don't like, but it seems to be the recipe for customer service these days.