Next Batch of Japanese Classics?
#16
Then your Porsche must have been a slow car in the mid to late 90's. I had no problem beating "stock" turbo Supras on the street or on the strip in my LS1 SS Camaro. They were close, but I'd walk them by a few cars in a 1/4, and I'd hardly consider the LS1 f body Camaro to be a classic or worthy of praise over the majority of sports car available during the era, and it was also a mid 4 second 0-60 car. I ran a best of 12.8 in the 1/4 in my stock SS with a 1.8 60'. If you're basing a classic solely on the stock performance, then a large majority of sports cars are classics.
The aftermarket is where the turbo Supra got respect, at least from us die hard American enthusiasts. It was one of the very few "ricers" that I respected. But only in the aftermarket. I don't know about the German scene...
I guess you're older and have different views than myself. To each his own.
The aftermarket is where the turbo Supra got respect, at least from us die hard American enthusiasts. It was one of the very few "ricers" that I respected. But only in the aftermarket. I don't know about the German scene...
I guess you're older and have different views than myself. To each his own.
I am a road course guy. Straight line, drag strip stuff never impressed or excited me much. It's about complete packages and skill to navigate technical tracks.
My only point was the Supra was a complete package looks wise and cutting edge performance to match the looks for its time. No doubt I am getting old, but I only mentioned the age thing as I didn't know if you were driving and purchasing high end cars when the Supra turbo hit the market in the 90s.
Lol, about the Camaro. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. Those late run Camaros/TAs were some of the most hideous, butt fugly sports cars ever made. Definitely no classic there even if it had hyperwarp mode.
Last edited by DougHII; 10-16-16 at 01:54 PM.
#17
There was no reference to my Porsche(s) in my post, but my street Porsches have pretty much always been turbos since the late 80s except a couple of Ruf 3.8 build outs and NA and GT cars I used on the track.
I am a road course guy. Straight line, drag strip stuff never impressed or excited me much. It's about complete packages and skill to navigate technical tracks.
My only point was the Supra was a complete package looks wise and cutting edge performance to match the looks for its time. No doubt I am getting old, but I only mentioned the age thing as I didn't know if you were driving and purchasing high end cars when the Supra turbo hit the market in the 90s.
Lol, about the Camaro. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. Those late run Camaros/TAs were some of the most hideous, butt fugly sports cars ever made. Definitely no classic there even if it had hyperwarp mode.
I am a road course guy. Straight line, drag strip stuff never impressed or excited me much. It's about complete packages and skill to navigate technical tracks.
My only point was the Supra was a complete package looks wise and cutting edge performance to match the looks for its time. No doubt I am getting old, but I only mentioned the age thing as I didn't know if you were driving and purchasing high end cars when the Supra turbo hit the market in the 90s.
Lol, about the Camaro. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. Those late run Camaros/TAs were some of the most hideous, butt fugly sports cars ever made. Definitely no classic there even if it had hyperwarp mode.
#18
At the time I was barely old enough to drink and I was into drag racing. It was the best bang for the buck on my extremely limited budget. Naturally, my tastes have changed over the years or else I'd be in a Hellcat right now. The front end didn't bother me as most people would see the rear end during a race, especially after mods.
#19
#20
In that case IDK if the IS-F will be around in 2028 if 20 years are indicator of a car being a classic. And for the RC-F, you know what of $#%& Lexus will be releasing in 2035? LOL. I guess the question is this, would you rather have a sick 2JZ build over the RC-F right now?
#21
My first car way back in the early 80s was a 1978 British Racing Green with tan interior. Those lines are classic to me.
The S2000 and Miata are absolutely brilliant handling little cars, but I am just not sure about the lines. Perhaps the S2000 has the looks to be a true classic. The Miata does not, I don't like the lines of the 350Z and the Infinitis are too bland and sterile. Not sure how you would classify an ISF as a potential classic with its looks and bland, sterile styling. GTR and LFA for sure, but c'mon . . . The LFA is a supercar so of course it will be a classic. It already is.
I had the RCF parked close to a street light tonight. The orange looks super cool under a street light, but the lines and shadows or shaded areas on the car from its lines are just super touch and unique. If it had a turbo engine and a case that could handle modifications and a lot of boost . . . the RCF would be an instant classic waiting to happen and the weight wouldn't mean so much. If the RCF had FI, it would then be on par with the A80 Supra turbo which also has incredible lines with that tail.
IMO, its more a torque issue than weight issue with the RCF. The NA just doesn't have the low end, super flat torque curve of the forced inductions. GTRs are not light either. Its all about forced induction these days for blazing acceleration in this reasonable price range.
The S2000 and Miata are absolutely brilliant handling little cars, but I am just not sure about the lines. Perhaps the S2000 has the looks to be a true classic. The Miata does not, I don't like the lines of the 350Z and the Infinitis are too bland and sterile. Not sure how you would classify an ISF as a potential classic with its looks and bland, sterile styling. GTR and LFA for sure, but c'mon . . . The LFA is a supercar so of course it will be a classic. It already is.
I had the RCF parked close to a street light tonight. The orange looks super cool under a street light, but the lines and shadows or shaded areas on the car from its lines are just super touch and unique. If it had a turbo engine and a case that could handle modifications and a lot of boost . . . the RCF would be an instant classic waiting to happen and the weight wouldn't mean so much. If the RCF had FI, it would then be on par with the A80 Supra turbo which also has incredible lines with that tail.
IMO, its more a torque issue than weight issue with the RCF. The NA just doesn't have the low end, super flat torque curve of the forced inductions. GTRs are not light either. Its all about forced induction these days for blazing acceleration in this reasonable price range.
#22
Maybe I misunderstood your post, but IMO I don't think a production run has anything to do with a model being considered a classic. For example, 289 & 427 Shelby Cobra's are classics and they didn't have a long production run, maybe 5 - 6 years.
#23
Then you have cars like the air-cooled NA Porsche base 911s. They were difficult to sell 10 years ago and then boom, 3 or 4 years ago they werethey were "classics" bringing in crazy money with turbos tripling and quadrupling in price in just a handful of years.
I purchased the RCF because to me it looked cutting edge and like nothing else on the street. It has more than sufficient performance for the street and is certainly more cutting edge and novel than Nissan Zs, Miatas, S2000 and any Infiniti. The S2000 has a super sweet motor though and it definitely has it following by those that purchase higher $$$ vehicles also whereas the Z cars are typically a gap car or compromise/budget purchase these days.
Cars that always had my respect were:
Toyato 2000GT
Skyline 2000 GT-R
240 and 280z
FD RX7 R or RZ
Supra turbo
Evo
S2000
#24
Now the Tesla on the other hand... I'm still considering picking one up in the future. That 0-60 time is crazy. I can see the Tesla becoming a classic because of what it is. But the Tesla is off topic for this thread since it's not a Japanese car.
#25
I'm not interested in the Hellcat. If I were interested then I'd have one. I'm going to buy a 2nd RC F and build that one into the track car (or maybe this one will be?). I decided that I need to keep at least one RC F as a good touring car since I travel a lot. But my touring car will still have around 600 bhp (I have trouble leaving cars stock).
Now the Tesla on the other hand... I'm still considering picking one up in the future. That 0-60 time is crazy. I can see the Tesla becoming a classic because of what it is. But the Tesla is off topic for this thread since it's not a Japanese car.
Now the Tesla on the other hand... I'm still considering picking one up in the future. That 0-60 time is crazy. I can see the Tesla becoming a classic because of what it is. But the Tesla is off topic for this thread since it's not a Japanese car.
#26
Track car . . . Now you are entering into my area of expertise. Don't bother with making an RCF into a track car. Too expensive and you get a much superior track car for far less investment. I can get you pointed in the right direction for a lot less money and you can have a competitive car to race in SCCA, NASA or club events and have a whale of a time. PM if interested. For electric, also check out the new Karma coupe. It is supposed to be a redesigned Fisker made much better and with all of the kinks worked out. Tesla won't be a classic. Hopefully, this will pave the way to the future. I am like so not an electric, hybrid green type of guy, but I am completely sold on the direction of the new high performance electric market. Great things on the horizon.
I'm not into electric. But the performance numbers grabbed my attention.
#27
I suppose you cannot neatly define the parameters of what does and does not make a car a classic. Regardless as to how long or how many of a certain vehicle are made, classic to me seems like cutting edge, novel style for its time, cutting edge performance for its time or a combination of both. A Dodge Coronet may not be a classic, whereas a 426 Hemi Coronet is.
Then you have cars like the air-cooled NA Porsche base 911s. They were difficult to sell 10 years ago and then boom, 3 or 4 years ago they werethey were "classics" bringing in crazy money with turbos tripling and quadrupling in price in just a handful of years.
I purchased the RCF because to me it looked cutting edge and like nothing else on the street. It has more than sufficient performance for the street and is certainly more cutting edge and novel than Nissan Zs, Miatas, S2000 and any Infiniti. The S2000 has a super sweet motor though and it definitely has it following by those that purchase higher $$$ vehicles also whereas the Z cars are typically a gap car or compromise/budget purchase these days.
Cars that always had my respect were:
Toyato 2000GT
Skyline 2000 GT-R
240 and 280z
FD RX7 R or RZ
Supra turbo
Evo
S2000
Then you have cars like the air-cooled NA Porsche base 911s. They were difficult to sell 10 years ago and then boom, 3 or 4 years ago they werethey were "classics" bringing in crazy money with turbos tripling and quadrupling in price in just a handful of years.
I purchased the RCF because to me it looked cutting edge and like nothing else on the street. It has more than sufficient performance for the street and is certainly more cutting edge and novel than Nissan Zs, Miatas, S2000 and any Infiniti. The S2000 has a super sweet motor though and it definitely has it following by those that purchase higher $$$ vehicles also whereas the Z cars are typically a gap car or compromise/budget purchase these days.
Cars that always had my respect were:
Toyato 2000GT
Skyline 2000 GT-R
240 and 280z
FD RX7 R or RZ
Supra turbo
Evo
S2000
Regarding the Dodge Coronet example you mentioned, IMO this is similar to what it may be like someday with the RC. Whereas the RCF will be considered a classic and the RC not so much.
This thread got me thinking about my CTS-V Coupe. IMO I think there is a pretty good chance it may be considered a classic someday since the total production run for coupes from 2011 to 2015 was approx 8,470 cars. Whereas a regular CTS Coupe I don't think will have a chance. When I bought my V three years ago I never even thought about this.
However, I do love how rare they are, I can go weeks and more often months at a time without seeing one on the road. Regardless if it becomes a classic or not it really doesn't matter, because it's staying in the family classic or not for a very long time.
And since my oldest son and fellow car nut (23) already considers himself the co-owner (he can deal with his brothers on this one LOL), I know it's not going anywhere.
Last edited by JT4; 10-18-16 at 05:55 AM.
#28
Great dialog from all sides and good reading.
Nobody has a crystal ball so I am not claiming I do, but just looking at things objectively, I think we are deep in an era of continuous improvements, being technical and/or mechanical as it relates to cars and that many of the newer cars today will just be junk after 20+ years because they will just be too inadequately inferior all-around. That and the cars made today are already too damn technical that most novice wrench-turners will be unable to work on these cars to keep them around.
Will some of these modern Japanese cars be classics to some select people? I think the answer will be small yes but will they draw the high-dollar, respect and collectability of some of the Japanese (or any) classics of the past? That I do not think so.
So with all that said, I think in general any car (Japanese or other) that is not released as a supercar does not stand too good of a chance of being a classic in 20+ years due to my opinions above.
Just my two cents and opinion...
Nobody has a crystal ball so I am not claiming I do, but just looking at things objectively, I think we are deep in an era of continuous improvements, being technical and/or mechanical as it relates to cars and that many of the newer cars today will just be junk after 20+ years because they will just be too inadequately inferior all-around. That and the cars made today are already too damn technical that most novice wrench-turners will be unable to work on these cars to keep them around.
Will some of these modern Japanese cars be classics to some select people? I think the answer will be small yes but will they draw the high-dollar, respect and collectability of some of the Japanese (or any) classics of the past? That I do not think so.
So with all that said, I think in general any car (Japanese or other) that is not released as a supercar does not stand too good of a chance of being a classic in 20+ years due to my opinions above.
Just my two cents and opinion...
Last edited by mr2dave; 10-20-16 at 08:31 PM.
#29
Great dialog from all sides and good reading.
Nobody has a crystal ball so I am not claiming I do, but just looking at things objectively, I think we are deep in an era of continuous improvements, being technical and/or mechanical as it relates to cars and that many of the newer cars today will just be junk after 20+ years because they will just be too inadequately inferior all-around. That and the cars made today are already too damn technical that most novice wrench-turners will be able to work on these cars to keep them around.
Will some of these modern Japanese cars be classics to some select people? I think the answer will be small yes but will they draw the high-dollar, respect and collectability of some of the Japanese (or any) classics of the past? That I do not think so.
So with all that said, I think in general any car (Japanese or other) that is not released as a supercar does not stand too good of a chance of being a classic in 20+ years due to my opinions above.
Just my two cents and opinion...
Nobody has a crystal ball so I am not claiming I do, but just looking at things objectively, I think we are deep in an era of continuous improvements, being technical and/or mechanical as it relates to cars and that many of the newer cars today will just be junk after 20+ years because they will just be too inadequately inferior all-around. That and the cars made today are already too damn technical that most novice wrench-turners will be able to work on these cars to keep them around.
Will some of these modern Japanese cars be classics to some select people? I think the answer will be small yes but will they draw the high-dollar, respect and collectability of some of the Japanese (or any) classics of the past? That I do not think so.
So with all that said, I think in general any car (Japanese or other) that is not released as a supercar does not stand too good of a chance of being a classic in 20+ years due to my opinions above.
Just my two cents and opinion...
#30
I didn't mean production run, I meant maintained and operational after 20 years. A classic in my mind can by a 1996 Civic if it's well maintained. Its in the eye of the beholder. Not everyone wants a 20 year old Porsche. Some folks would pay top dollar for a 1994 240, because it invokes memories. An E36 M3 still gets my attention and the last one rolled off the line in 99-2000.