Real or Synthetic Oil....
07-11-17, 11:55 PM
#196
I actually re-read almost the whole thread and didn't see a discount code! Mind posting it or at least PMing me with it? Think I'll do the M1EP and RLI back to back via Tribologik... what makes EP so different from the regular M1? I'm waiting to install my aFe dry flow air filter and TRD oil filter as well.
CREATED10 - good until August 1st.
The following 2 users liked this post by danielTRLK:
BossMoss (07-12-17),
Leander311 (07-12-17)
07-12-17, 07:19 AM
#197
The additive and dispersants in the EP are what the regular M1 should have had in the first place. lol but they need their $3 extra! Basically Mobil realized their stand alone M1 formula couldn't go 15K without contamination and combustion byproducts issues, so the M1EP has stronger additives and dispersants to keep the oil in grade, clean and strong by the 15K marker. I really like the M1EP formula, I wouldn't go 15K on it though. The one a lot of people have been asking about is the Annual Protection. Haven't been able to test it but would love to see if it holds better than the EP, it's entirely possible there's just even more emulsifiers and dispersants to keep particles suspended until change. When this thread first started, it was more to do with pushing the OCI, I'll note, I love how Toyota on the Scion thing/subaru BRZ/86/ and the 30 other names it goes by, placed the oil filter inverted on top of the engine. You can easily change that filter in 2 seconds, I love spin on filters that are inverted like that. I would be able to just replace the filter often and forget about the oil, instead our filters are a pain in the butt to get to and you get messy everytime and I'm lowered which makes it a bigger pain. Probably why Lance stopped at some point, at some point no matter the UOA, time and convenience take over and one might as well change the oil on this engine at that point. Really wished they had stuck the filter on top like the Pentastar motors.
CREATED10 - good until August 1st.
CREATED10 - good until August 1st.
FWIW - Walmart has roll-back pricing right now of $25.47 per 5qt jug on the M1EP w/free shipping over $35: https://www.walmart.com/ip/17128876
Best,
Nick
07-12-17, 10:40 AM
#198
Been reading some interesting F1 articles on engine oil consumption and how F1 teams might be making more power with higher engine oil consumption:
https://drivetribe.com/p/f1-concern-...QlSAUT7oq3zisw
It begs the question, to what extent does this apply to our engines? Does more power only apply if the proper additives have been put into the oil?
wolfman
https://drivetribe.com/p/f1-concern-...QlSAUT7oq3zisw
It begs the question, to what extent does this apply to our engines? Does more power only apply if the proper additives have been put into the oil?
wolfman
07-12-17, 12:01 PM
#200
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Oil has a ridiculously low octane rating. Typically around 20 research. You can't afford much in the cylinder before you have detonation problems, so whatever F1 is doing is part of their tune. Our tune is not so generous. Oil hurts catalytic converters by significantly increasing the load, so you would have shorter emissions compliance service life. F1 is just doing what F1 always does - find a way to work within the bounds of the rules and still have a competitive advantage. I seriously doubt any of the OEMs would consider the kind of tune necessary to make oil burning a reality. Racing engines are not built to last longer than they need to, and street engines are.
The following users liked this post:
rjmalm (07-12-17)
07-13-17, 11:40 AM
#201
Well there's a lot to it, in short here is why it really shines. From the refinery to the final gas station, Shell's standards are just simply much higher. Their fuel is cleaner, they use quality additives, and they're strict about how it's transported. The quality additives are what allow things like your valves to stay cleaner during burning and post EGR cycles. The transporation aspect is why it's the same in every different area.
^not sure how that's different than what you just said. Other than you can say technically I should have said terminal and not refinery.
Not quite, Shell's additive are the best in the market place, they really have tackled issues others have just sort of said, "eh". Lots of polarization issues in today's new engines that few have addressed. Using one brand of fuel vs. another brand will not wash the other hand. Deposits build up, starting with the best additive first is the best plan of attack. In our UOA, Shell outperforms the other fuels. I used to test for IL, NY, TX, and CA, and I can tell you the Shell stations always had cleaner samples from their tanks.
Do remember, Shell spends an abnormal amount of time on the racing scene with Ferrari. I met a girl not long ago, whom we keep in touch through a forum for the industry, and she spends all day with Ferrari technicians and engineers formulating additives for the gas. I'm a big believer in companies heavily invested in racing deliver superior products. Likely why Lexus got into racing this year with their GT3 RC F.
Using Shell fuel vs. anyone else, is not a thing you will probably notice driving. That's like when I hear, yeah my car loved Mobil 1 when the user switched from Pennzoil. These are things that can be quantified over time with UOA, partial break downs and full tear downs. It's not something you will quantify down the block. It is a long term kind of deal.
My final note will be this, in the grand picture, the M4 and the RC F, seem equally as fast and deliver the same performance, but upon closer inspection you can start a forum war over the M4 being .3 seconds faster in a quarter mile or handling corners better. Big picture, you can't go wrong with Shell, BP, Mobil but little picture reveals Shell takes the win. So take it if you can fill up Shell at a cost difference of less than a dollar, why not? But if it will cost you $10 more, then you have a different case. The Shell fuel by my house with the fuel rewards is $0.02 more than Thorntons, which is a low quality fuel and they actually don't have 93, only 92.
Almost all fuel today is "Top Tier", it's sort of like the API certifications, I don't even bother because a lot of it is $$$ and not actually about an acceptable standard. It doesn't mean there's no use for the designation, but use UOA and tear downs to quantify.
^not sure how that's different than what you just said. Other than you can say technically I should have said terminal and not refinery.
Not quite, Shell's additive are the best in the market place, they really have tackled issues others have just sort of said, "eh". Lots of polarization issues in today's new engines that few have addressed. Using one brand of fuel vs. another brand will not wash the other hand. Deposits build up, starting with the best additive first is the best plan of attack. In our UOA, Shell outperforms the other fuels. I used to test for IL, NY, TX, and CA, and I can tell you the Shell stations always had cleaner samples from their tanks.
Do remember, Shell spends an abnormal amount of time on the racing scene with Ferrari. I met a girl not long ago, whom we keep in touch through a forum for the industry, and she spends all day with Ferrari technicians and engineers formulating additives for the gas. I'm a big believer in companies heavily invested in racing deliver superior products. Likely why Lexus got into racing this year with their GT3 RC F.
Using Shell fuel vs. anyone else, is not a thing you will probably notice driving. That's like when I hear, yeah my car loved Mobil 1 when the user switched from Pennzoil. These are things that can be quantified over time with UOA, partial break downs and full tear downs. It's not something you will quantify down the block. It is a long term kind of deal.
My final note will be this, in the grand picture, the M4 and the RC F, seem equally as fast and deliver the same performance, but upon closer inspection you can start a forum war over the M4 being .3 seconds faster in a quarter mile or handling corners better. Big picture, you can't go wrong with Shell, BP, Mobil but little picture reveals Shell takes the win. So take it if you can fill up Shell at a cost difference of less than a dollar, why not? But if it will cost you $10 more, then you have a different case. The Shell fuel by my house with the fuel rewards is $0.02 more than Thorntons, which is a low quality fuel and they actually don't have 93, only 92.
Almost all fuel today is "Top Tier", it's sort of like the API certifications, I don't even bother because a lot of it is $$$ and not actually about an acceptable standard. It doesn't mean there's no use for the designation, but use UOA and tear downs to quantify.
Daniel, or anyone else, an you explain why The Shell stations in AZ carry only Shell V Power 91 as the highest octane rating? I have yet to find 93 Octane in the Phoenix area, though I have stopped at a dozen different Shell stations.
The following users liked this post:
BossMoss (07-14-17)
07-13-17, 01:55 PM
#203
You can blend out some ethanol to get 92 octane.
If you get E10 91 and you fill up 15 gallons per fill up. You can blend 1.07 gallons of E80 "E85" to get a perfect 92.00 octane. That would put you at E15, which is to become the norm across the country soon. Almost all vehicles since 2000 can handle E15, all vehicles from 2008 & up can handle E15. I have no idea however how much 92 would make a difference, I've asked somewhere else if anyone had an idea what the timing difference between 93 and 94 was on the RC F and what power difference that made. This is a very unique car that will not ever be modded like a mustang or GT-R, so some questions will be hard to answer.
The following users liked this post:
BossMoss (07-14-17)
07-13-17, 02:52 PM
#204
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
It has to do with the elevation as octane rating requirements change and a few other variables. In short, it's likely the time will come when getting higher octane fuel will be the norm. Until the oil companies get regulated on the fuels side, we'll continue to receive garbage pump fuel.
If you are in Denver, 91 works a charm.
07-13-17, 06:48 PM
#205
Part 1 is not true for states receiving fuel from California. All the California refineries led by Tosco, decided many years ago to reduce octane to 91. They did it in two steps. I remember it quite well because it very negatively impacted my Supra. It has nothing to do with elevation and everything to do with profit margins. Besides, Cali 91 behaves like 89. It's really crap fuel no matter where you buy it. Supra was extremely happy with the move to GA with 93 at the pump. FWIW, I changed my coolant ratio from 50/50 to 90/10 distilled to coolant when they went from 93 to 92. When they went from 92 to 91, I had to use 4 gallons of 100 octane unleaded with 12 gallons of 91 octane to get my fuel mileage back. It was actually cheaper to pay for 4 gallons at $7 a gallon than it was to drive around losing 33% of my fuel mileage because Cali's 91 octane is so poor.
If you are in Denver, 91 works a charm.
If you are in Denver, 91 works a charm.
The following users liked this post:
BossMoss (07-14-17)
07-25-17, 01:20 AM
#206
Well, I wanted to give you guys an update on the WIX 57041XP which I got on eBay for $13/each with free shipping. I bought 3, so I'm pretty set for a few months in terms of supply. So fitment wise, went in like the OEM filter, no problems. I know we've previously had a discussion about fitment, etc. So a while back I had contacted WIX and kept getting BS responses, I'd ask a question and literally was told, WIX is the best filter in the planet, it just got bad at the end. LOL.
When something doesn't make sense to me, I'm the kind of guy, where it sticks in my head, and I'll think about it every once in a while. Well, a few nights ago, I was looking at the Fram filters and it dawned on me, why WIX never recommended or tested the 57041XP over the 57310 even though they are the same size and fit. The RC F is one of 3 or so Lexus vehicles that officially recommends conventional oil. So after cross referencing a few Lexus engine's and Toyota engines back and forth, I kept finding the same thing. On Lexus models where conventional was recommended the 57310 appeared, but in the same engine in a Toyota with an OEM synthetic recommendation, the 57041 and 57041XP appeared.
I can only imagine WIX's marketing department would have a nightmare if they found their engineering department to be recommending the XP on conventional oil since that's a huge component of the marketing right there. WIX likely never bothered and figured most Lexus owners will either blindly follow the manual, go to the dealer, or the service shop would put conventional in.
While this is a strongly evidence based theory, it would explain why there's no XP filter, and in other posts where people tell me the manufacturers know best, this is further proof, how much control marketing has over engineering. At the end of the day, what can't be sold to the masses, can't be engineered.
I will have a UOA with the XP filter soon, we shall see how well it filtered compared to the Lexus OE filter. I have a member on this forum with a supercharged unit, that if allowed, I can share the filtration difference on the Mobil 1 filter and the XP. I'm not sure if Champion makes the paper Mobil 1 filters, so I'd like to find out in the meantime who makes the paper M1 filter. Until then I will probably not be back on. I do have two supercharged UOA's you guys might find interesting but I think both owners are waiting on a few things before I can share.
I will be testing the Amsoil Signature Series 0W20 next and see how it performs.
When something doesn't make sense to me, I'm the kind of guy, where it sticks in my head, and I'll think about it every once in a while. Well, a few nights ago, I was looking at the Fram filters and it dawned on me, why WIX never recommended or tested the 57041XP over the 57310 even though they are the same size and fit. The RC F is one of 3 or so Lexus vehicles that officially recommends conventional oil. So after cross referencing a few Lexus engine's and Toyota engines back and forth, I kept finding the same thing. On Lexus models where conventional was recommended the 57310 appeared, but in the same engine in a Toyota with an OEM synthetic recommendation, the 57041 and 57041XP appeared.
I can only imagine WIX's marketing department would have a nightmare if they found their engineering department to be recommending the XP on conventional oil since that's a huge component of the marketing right there. WIX likely never bothered and figured most Lexus owners will either blindly follow the manual, go to the dealer, or the service shop would put conventional in.
While this is a strongly evidence based theory, it would explain why there's no XP filter, and in other posts where people tell me the manufacturers know best, this is further proof, how much control marketing has over engineering. At the end of the day, what can't be sold to the masses, can't be engineered.
I will have a UOA with the XP filter soon, we shall see how well it filtered compared to the Lexus OE filter. I have a member on this forum with a supercharged unit, that if allowed, I can share the filtration difference on the Mobil 1 filter and the XP. I'm not sure if Champion makes the paper Mobil 1 filters, so I'd like to find out in the meantime who makes the paper M1 filter. Until then I will probably not be back on. I do have two supercharged UOA's you guys might find interesting but I think both owners are waiting on a few things before I can share.
I will be testing the Amsoil Signature Series 0W20 next and see how it performs.
Last edited by danielTRLK; 07-25-17 at 01:31 AM.
The following 4 users liked this post by danielTRLK:
07-25-17, 01:39 PM
#207
Epic find on the XP filter, Daniel... not sure if you opined on the TRD filter for our application, but it has some seriously good looking media. I'm running it now with the M1EP you recommended before I try the RLI and compare the UOA's for both... Thoughts?
Genuine Toyota Parts PTR43-00081 TRD Oil Filter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00965DFQ6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_mW6Dzb2PCTFQF
Genuine Toyota Parts PTR43-00081 TRD Oil Filter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00965DFQ6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_mW6Dzb2PCTFQF
07-27-17, 09:10 AM
#210
^^^^Gosh, the guy has 5 posts and you welcome him like that
To Leo007 Welcome to the site. Lot's of good information here and knowledgeable folks. You posted in the RCF forum. The correct forum for you to post for information on your RX is here:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...2004-2009-164/
Lou
To Leo007 Welcome to the site. Lot's of good information here and knowledgeable folks. You posted in the RCF forum. The correct forum for you to post for information on your RX is here:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...2004-2009-164/
Lou