Real or Synthetic Oil....
08-08-17, 12:50 AM
#226
Poor ring seal from the Royal Purple, there are better oils out there known and tested. This oil isn't staying in grade, it's essentially a 20 weight already, typical on this vehicle. Fuels dilution contributed to some bearing wear and crankshaft/piston wear, possibly some oil pump wear.
Fueling properly and combustion efficiency is ok but not great. Baselines are tricky with oils, they don't always mean they're valid. You had to run multiple tests to determine if a baseline is valid or not, plus every oil is very different. GC is reading 1% due to the hydrocarbons in the oil. These hydrocarbons will change within a few revolutions of your engine. If I had more money, I'd run GC + Closed Cup Flashpoint on my tests.
Very low VI for an oil with 1600 miles. Royal Purple is ok but as mentioned, I would suggest using a 30 weight that will actually stay in grade with a high VI. Not good that you're pumping a half quart per day, a good oil will stop your consumption. Fuels dilution is contributing to why you're not putting more oil in.
Stay away from the oiled air filters, they really end up restricting air flow and contribute to wear if not changed for fresh ones every 10K or 5K tracked. Plus there's really no power gains out of them and they're pricey $$. Better oil will get you more real power than those filters.
Engine is properly seated, good break in.
1. Switch to either RLI or Amsoil at 5,000 miles or 3,000 if you do the same style driving again. Mobil 1 EP is another option if you can't afford/find/purchase/region/etc the first two. I would highly suggest the RLI as most know already.
2. Dump a bottle of Chevron Techron Fuels System Cleaner or VP Racing's Fuels System Cleaner in this guy. Keeping deposits down will increase life + power + fuel economy during time of ownership. At the moment, AutoZone has Chevron half off. So $4.50. Use every 5,000 miles.
3. You can continue to use the OE filter, it has done ok so far, I would need to see a UOA again at a later mileage to determine effectiveness for you plus a particle count or particle quantifier depending on color of the oil would really be the key. My future personal UOA's will include particle counts. Filters take time to get loaded and are rarely loaded in the first 3,500 miles of driving unless tracked heavily.(like 8 track days). I've seen enough UOAs on RC F's that I can say the OE filter does well but the WIX XP does better. It should be $13-14 on eBay, I think $16 at O'reillys. The XP helps because oil will always take the path of least resistance, so a media that allows that will trap more particles and debris.
4. The fuel quality I can't tell with this little amount of driving. I suggest Shell/BP/Exxon if viable.
5. Get a dry air filer.
6. Do you have the RR catch can? There's some people on this forum willing to pay for the testing on whatever comes out of it. I'm going to say likely EGRed fuel residuals but need $$(Lobuxracer) and participants to test and confirm or deny.
Fueling properly and combustion efficiency is ok but not great. Baselines are tricky with oils, they don't always mean they're valid. You had to run multiple tests to determine if a baseline is valid or not, plus every oil is very different. GC is reading 1% due to the hydrocarbons in the oil. These hydrocarbons will change within a few revolutions of your engine. If I had more money, I'd run GC + Closed Cup Flashpoint on my tests.
Very low VI for an oil with 1600 miles. Royal Purple is ok but as mentioned, I would suggest using a 30 weight that will actually stay in grade with a high VI. Not good that you're pumping a half quart per day, a good oil will stop your consumption. Fuels dilution is contributing to why you're not putting more oil in.
Stay away from the oiled air filters, they really end up restricting air flow and contribute to wear if not changed for fresh ones every 10K or 5K tracked. Plus there's really no power gains out of them and they're pricey $$. Better oil will get you more real power than those filters.
Engine is properly seated, good break in.
1. Switch to either RLI or Amsoil at 5,000 miles or 3,000 if you do the same style driving again. Mobil 1 EP is another option if you can't afford/find/purchase/region/etc the first two. I would highly suggest the RLI as most know already.
2. Dump a bottle of Chevron Techron Fuels System Cleaner or VP Racing's Fuels System Cleaner in this guy. Keeping deposits down will increase life + power + fuel economy during time of ownership. At the moment, AutoZone has Chevron half off. So $4.50. Use every 5,000 miles.
3. You can continue to use the OE filter, it has done ok so far, I would need to see a UOA again at a later mileage to determine effectiveness for you plus a particle count or particle quantifier depending on color of the oil would really be the key. My future personal UOA's will include particle counts. Filters take time to get loaded and are rarely loaded in the first 3,500 miles of driving unless tracked heavily.(like 8 track days). I've seen enough UOAs on RC F's that I can say the OE filter does well but the WIX XP does better. It should be $13-14 on eBay, I think $16 at O'reillys. The XP helps because oil will always take the path of least resistance, so a media that allows that will trap more particles and debris.
4. The fuel quality I can't tell with this little amount of driving. I suggest Shell/BP/Exxon if viable.
5. Get a dry air filer.
6. Do you have the RR catch can? There's some people on this forum willing to pay for the testing on whatever comes out of it. I'm going to say likely EGRed fuel residuals but need $$(Lobuxracer) and participants to test and confirm or deny.
08-08-17, 07:14 AM
#227
Lexus Test Driver
Hi Daniel, first let me thank you for taking the time out of your day to give such a thorough reply.
I've been a mobile one guy for years. This was the first time I tried royal purple in my car. I had a feeling you were not going to be kind to it. I will switch oil.
So what particular metal/item are you looking at to know I have cam wear & fuel pump wear?
This way I can get other test done down the road and monitor the numbers myself versus having to bother you to decipher.
What's your thoughts on the standard WIX Oil filter versus the XP ones?
I bought the regular ones by mistake and have two on hand. Should I forward go or just use them?
They only cost $10 so nbd if I need to discard and get the XP.
I read your earlier post about not using oiled air filters. That's why I went ahead and clean that filter with only 4K miles.
Guess I'll buy a new oem one.
Is the soot reading that tells you whether air filter working or not?
yes I have a RR oil catcher. That the oil loss I
am talking about from track days. The car doesn't lose a drop of oil during normal street driving because I drive very reserved on the road. But on the track, every 20 minutes session equals pretty much a full catch can. 5–6 sessions in a day equals about 2/3 to 3/4 of a quart in total. That's the missing oil that I have been topping off with mobile 1. I will be stopping that too.
Will test oil again soon. This time it will have 4 track days so I am guessing the test will come back terrible since it is royal purple in there right now. Will switch on the next change.
Again, thank you very much.
I've been a mobile one guy for years. This was the first time I tried royal purple in my car. I had a feeling you were not going to be kind to it. I will switch oil.
So what particular metal/item are you looking at to know I have cam wear & fuel pump wear?
This way I can get other test done down the road and monitor the numbers myself versus having to bother you to decipher.
What's your thoughts on the standard WIX Oil filter versus the XP ones?
I bought the regular ones by mistake and have two on hand. Should I forward go or just use them?
They only cost $10 so nbd if I need to discard and get the XP.
I read your earlier post about not using oiled air filters. That's why I went ahead and clean that filter with only 4K miles.
Guess I'll buy a new oem one.
Is the soot reading that tells you whether air filter working or not?
yes I have a RR oil catcher. That the oil loss I
am talking about from track days. The car doesn't lose a drop of oil during normal street driving because I drive very reserved on the road. But on the track, every 20 minutes session equals pretty much a full catch can. 5–6 sessions in a day equals about 2/3 to 3/4 of a quart in total. That's the missing oil that I have been topping off with mobile 1. I will be stopping that too.
Will test oil again soon. This time it will have 4 track days so I am guessing the test will come back terrible since it is royal purple in there right now. Will switch on the next change.
Again, thank you very much.
08-08-17, 02:24 PM
#228
1. Well, I can't be kind to RP if they're not being kind to you or your engine!!! Everything is results based here Mingo, if someone is failing you, I'm going to be the first to tell you about it.
2. Mobil 1 EP is a very good formula, the regular M1 is the cheaped out version of the EP. Now they're pimping the AP as the end all, LOL.
3. Iron, but your cams are fine. You have to understand a lot of variables to make sense of it, the darn hardest part with your sample is having added the make up oil. Make up oil throws things off a lot.
4. I'm doing oil analysis on the side with a phenomenal lab. Just e-mail me again when you want to sample. It's $50 and the data is a bit better.
5. It'll be ok, this is not a spin on filter, huge differences there. These paper filters you can see a difference but not as large. The XP in this case is only marginally better, not a drastic OMG level improvement. Don't waste your money, just keep them, you'll be fine.
6. Cheap cheap cheap air filters. I've bought the WIX engine filter for $29.99 on eBay, $37 in store. If you can find a cheaper dry paper filter, go for it. change every 10K or 5K if tracked. It's critical for this engine you get proper air flow, oiled filters clog without you knowing it.
7. Sodium, K, and Silicon give me an indication, soot can and can not, all depends on the application.
8. This RP would be ok for a daily driver street, over priced in my opinion and the M1 EP is just cheap cheap cheap for a good formula that works. This RP will burn oil at the track, I can see it very clearly here. Catch can will catch gobs full of oil with this oil. With the RLI, the catch can will likely be rendered useless. I've been running RLI since I had my can on, not one drop. Lance gave me some good advice and feedback, so I went to the autocross track across from my house(massive baseball stadium parking lot .25 miles squared) set up cones one night and went at it for 15 minutes straight. Not one drop, nothing. My catch can has still been empty since day one. Catch can have nothing to catch if your ring seal and fuel quality is good.
9. You mean you're going to put 4 additional track days on this oil? or it will have a total of 4 track days? Keep in mind, this engine is running hot because of the oil selection. You're going to be tracking this car on a 20 weight oil at this point. I would suggest not tracking it further on this oil as this oil is done for right now, it will survive an daily driving but not more track time. Depending on how much more it shears (because this only gets accelerated) this oil will essentially become a 0W16 if you track it further.
Does anyone here have a catch can full that they'd be willing to donate for testing courtesy of Me and Lobux?
2. Mobil 1 EP is a very good formula, the regular M1 is the cheaped out version of the EP. Now they're pimping the AP as the end all, LOL.
3. Iron, but your cams are fine. You have to understand a lot of variables to make sense of it, the darn hardest part with your sample is having added the make up oil. Make up oil throws things off a lot.
4. I'm doing oil analysis on the side with a phenomenal lab. Just e-mail me again when you want to sample. It's $50 and the data is a bit better.
5. It'll be ok, this is not a spin on filter, huge differences there. These paper filters you can see a difference but not as large. The XP in this case is only marginally better, not a drastic OMG level improvement. Don't waste your money, just keep them, you'll be fine.
6. Cheap cheap cheap air filters. I've bought the WIX engine filter for $29.99 on eBay, $37 in store. If you can find a cheaper dry paper filter, go for it. change every 10K or 5K if tracked. It's critical for this engine you get proper air flow, oiled filters clog without you knowing it.
7. Sodium, K, and Silicon give me an indication, soot can and can not, all depends on the application.
8. This RP would be ok for a daily driver street, over priced in my opinion and the M1 EP is just cheap cheap cheap for a good formula that works. This RP will burn oil at the track, I can see it very clearly here. Catch can will catch gobs full of oil with this oil. With the RLI, the catch can will likely be rendered useless. I've been running RLI since I had my can on, not one drop. Lance gave me some good advice and feedback, so I went to the autocross track across from my house(massive baseball stadium parking lot .25 miles squared) set up cones one night and went at it for 15 minutes straight. Not one drop, nothing. My catch can has still been empty since day one. Catch can have nothing to catch if your ring seal and fuel quality is good.
9. You mean you're going to put 4 additional track days on this oil? or it will have a total of 4 track days? Keep in mind, this engine is running hot because of the oil selection. You're going to be tracking this car on a 20 weight oil at this point. I would suggest not tracking it further on this oil as this oil is done for right now, it will survive an daily driving but not more track time. Depending on how much more it shears (because this only gets accelerated) this oil will essentially become a 0W16 if you track it further.
Does anyone here have a catch can full that they'd be willing to donate for testing courtesy of Me and Lobux?
Last edited by danielTRLK; 08-08-17 at 02:31 PM.
08-08-17, 04:14 PM
#231
Lexus Test Driver
Daniel,
Thanks again for the thorough explanation.
The oil in the car currently is pretty new. Like less than 1k miles street driving. I took the sample for the tribologik test when oil was changed recently. Bad thing is RP went in again...
I have 4 single days worth of track days coming up in august & sept. Normally I would change oil again after those 4 days if I go by mileage.
In your opinion, would I risk considerable damage to internals if I left the RP in and drove those 4 days? Or even two days and then change out again? If so, I would drain out and refill with something else-most likey EP at this point since I will have to do it fairly soon due to track day next Wednesday. Mail order RLI will take too long probably.
I'm hoping not to "waste" the RP in there since it costs about $75, plus a filter, plus I pay a place to dump the oil so in total its approx $110. Then, the new oil cost will be on top of that too. But $200 is not worth risking permenant motor damage by any means.
Pls advise. Knowing me, I'm gonna change the RP out anyhow...
Thanks.
I am very curious to see how much oil will be in the aos next time. It would be awesome if just
a different oil can change the output that much!
Thanks again for the thorough explanation.
The oil in the car currently is pretty new. Like less than 1k miles street driving. I took the sample for the tribologik test when oil was changed recently. Bad thing is RP went in again...
I have 4 single days worth of track days coming up in august & sept. Normally I would change oil again after those 4 days if I go by mileage.
In your opinion, would I risk considerable damage to internals if I left the RP in and drove those 4 days? Or even two days and then change out again? If so, I would drain out and refill with something else-most likey EP at this point since I will have to do it fairly soon due to track day next Wednesday. Mail order RLI will take too long probably.
I'm hoping not to "waste" the RP in there since it costs about $75, plus a filter, plus I pay a place to dump the oil so in total its approx $110. Then, the new oil cost will be on top of that too. But $200 is not worth risking permenant motor damage by any means.
Pls advise. Knowing me, I'm gonna change the RP out anyhow...
Thanks.
I am very curious to see how much oil will be in the aos next time. It would be awesome if just
a different oil can change the output that much!
08-08-17, 10:34 PM
#233
Daniel,
Thanks again for the thorough explanation.
The oil in the car currently is pretty new. Like less than 1k miles street driving. I took the sample for the tribologik test when oil was changed recently. Bad thing is RP went in again...
I have 4 single days worth of track days coming up in august & sept. Normally I would change oil again after those 4 days if I go by mileage.
In your opinion, would I risk considerable damage to internals if I left the RP in and drove those 4 days? Or even two days and then change out again? If so, I would drain out and refill with something else-most likey EP at this point since I will have to do it fairly soon due to track day next Wednesday. Mail order RLI will take too long probably.
I'm hoping not to "waste" the RP in there since it costs about $75, plus a filter, plus I pay a place to dump the oil so in total its approx $110. Then, the new oil cost will be on top of that too. But $200 is not worth risking permenant motor damage by any means.
Pls advise. Knowing me, I'm gonna change the RP out anyhow...
Thanks.
I am very curious to see how much oil will be in the aos next time. It would be awesome if just
a different oil can change the output that much!
Thanks again for the thorough explanation.
The oil in the car currently is pretty new. Like less than 1k miles street driving. I took the sample for the tribologik test when oil was changed recently. Bad thing is RP went in again...
I have 4 single days worth of track days coming up in august & sept. Normally I would change oil again after those 4 days if I go by mileage.
In your opinion, would I risk considerable damage to internals if I left the RP in and drove those 4 days? Or even two days and then change out again? If so, I would drain out and refill with something else-most likey EP at this point since I will have to do it fairly soon due to track day next Wednesday. Mail order RLI will take too long probably.
I'm hoping not to "waste" the RP in there since it costs about $75, plus a filter, plus I pay a place to dump the oil so in total its approx $110. Then, the new oil cost will be on top of that too. But $200 is not worth risking permenant motor damage by any means.
Pls advise. Knowing me, I'm gonna change the RP out anyhow...
Thanks.
I am very curious to see how much oil will be in the aos next time. It would be awesome if just
a different oil can change the output that much!
You did do some damage to a main, we can address this by picking a better lubricant that can handle your driving. But don't lose sleep over this. But please, get some RLI and let's resample again so you can see the changes for yourself.
08-09-17, 04:40 AM
#234
Lexus Test Driver
^^^
Thank you again for sharing your expertise.
It is hard for me to quantify just how much damage is being done by looking at these numbers.
You think the current damage is like 1% or 0.1% or 0.001% ? Or is it worst?
I know there's no way we could figure that out with exact certainty but can you give me an educated guess?
RLI has been ordered. Will change out this weekend if it shows up. If not, guess I'll be leaving the RP in one track day.
So once the RLI oil is in, you knowing my driving habits, what is the recommended next oci ? 2 track days? 4? 5k miles?
Don't guess I need to bother doing an AET of the current RP?
No donuts for the RCF!
Thank you again for sharing your expertise.
It is hard for me to quantify just how much damage is being done by looking at these numbers.
You think the current damage is like 1% or 0.1% or 0.001% ? Or is it worst?
I know there's no way we could figure that out with exact certainty but can you give me an educated guess?
RLI has been ordered. Will change out this weekend if it shows up. If not, guess I'll be leaving the RP in one track day.
So once the RLI oil is in, you knowing my driving habits, what is the recommended next oci ? 2 track days? 4? 5k miles?
Don't guess I need to bother doing an AET of the current RP?
No donuts for the RCF!
08-09-17, 06:09 AM
#235
Damage takes time, these bearing can take a lot of abuse stock.......
I can smoke a cigarette today and I'll be fine. But if I started smoking lots of them, then one day it would catch up. I could also get hit by a bus and the cigarette wouldn't have made a difference, LOL.
Homestly, who knows! UOA!!!! Probably start with a sample at 5K, that's how strong that oil is.
No dont bother with Triboligk. PM me when you need another sample.
I can smoke a cigarette today and I'll be fine. But if I started smoking lots of them, then one day it would catch up. I could also get hit by a bus and the cigarette wouldn't have made a difference, LOL.
Homestly, who knows! UOA!!!! Probably start with a sample at 5K, that's how strong that oil is.
No dont bother with Triboligk. PM me when you need another sample.
Last edited by danielTRLK; 08-09-17 at 07:29 AM.
08-12-17, 08:46 AM
#238
Rookie
Thanks flowrider. I have been running RP since I purchased my ISF last year but after reading this thread I am going to switch to RLI and switching to the WIX 57041 XP filter for my next oil change. Thanks Daniel!!
08-16-17, 06:23 PM
#240
Cosmo, your combination has been tested on the RC-F, twice with poor results. I've tested that combo on the GT-R, EVO's and WRX's thousands of times with poor results on those platforms as well. Poor results meaning for the money it wasn't good and competed with Redline and Amsoil. There's other oils like Joe Gibbs, etc that it compares with.