stormhamme

Hey guys - I've been lurking around here for the past few days, as an RC-F popped up recently in Molten Lava that cause my attention. It's a base model, so my first question is the ML sound system worth the hunt for? Coming from a 2008 Mazda Miata GT, the performance pack won't make much difference to me as this is going to be a daily driver with the odd weekend in the mountains, auto-x and HPDE's.

Anything I should be aware to look out for on 2015s?

98GS430

Hi, I recently purchased a 2015 RCF so I can identify with some of the questions you are asking. My car doesnt have ML and I can say I think it sounds excellent. Unless you are a true audiophile and plan to listen to music at a high volume level the stock system should be plenty good enough. Performance Package is nice, but again not 100% necessary. My car doesnt have it but does have the Torque Vectoring Differential (TVD). INMHO thats the most important piece of the Performance Package, the carbon fiber roof and spoiler are nice but realistically the few pounds they shed arent noticed on the street. However, I can say the TVD makes a pretty large difference in the way the car turns in even in spirited driving. Most cars without the Performance Package seem to have the standard Torsen Differential. Mine seems to be a bit of an oddball in that regard.

ssmoked

the base stereo will sound much better than the one in your Miata. So you are not missing much... that is until you experience the ML system

lexusrus

Go for the ML. I don't think it is going to cost you all that more in the used secondary market. I have ML's in my Lexus vehicles.

GetKinetic

Fet the premium, ML and performance package options.
17speakers are glorious and TVD is a must
imho

stormhamme

Is there any exterior defining item, package wise, that would denote the ML system? Just for the ease of browing.

I recall the TVD comes with the carbon roof/spoiler. Although, I've heard people on both sides of the fence on the torsen vs tvd

danielTRLK

Look inside, under the CD insert tray you'll see Mark Levinston if it has it.

TVD does not make the car go any faster. It was meant more for the track so you don't have to cross your arms while steering. I personally wonder what the reliability mechanically will be with it, especially with Toyota claiming lifetime diff fluid. On that diff I'd recommend new fluids often.

GetKinetic

You can look in the back window and see the ML logo on the speaker grills

CYKBC

iTrader: (2)

I believe this to be a misnomer that TVD is "meant more for the track". The chief engineer stated himself that both the RCF/GSF "focus on fun and an easy-to-drive experience, while balancing its street and track character."

TVD slalom reels in the rear end by applying additional torque to the outside rear wheel thereby making turn-in feel more go-kart-ish if that makes sense for a 4K lb gt coupe. In normal, my RCF more readily steps out before stability control intervenes. I've also seen some track footage where the TVD unit runs quicker lap times, but then I don't put too much weight on youtube content since if true we'd all be driving M4s instead, right?

I obviously can't speak on TVD's long-term reliability w/ <20K miles on the clock, but I bought a Toyota product over others for reasons we all share here. QRD.

danielTRLK

Well, the TVD is certainly not meant for the street. Things can feel better but it doesn't make them faster. I drove two RC F's back to back for almost an hour, I could not for the life of me get the TVD to run a better lap time, it definitely felt more controlled and required less input, but it wasn't faster. The videos you mention could not get the TVD RC F to run a faster lap time, other than a second faster, which can be attributed to many things considering the non TVD carries I think about 40-50lbs on the roof that the TVD version doesn't.

It's tougher for torque vectoring to work on a RWD vehicle than on a AWD vehicle.

Yeah, I haven't heard issues nor do I have any data but it's also brand new. I've seen a lot of cars have issues with similar tech when the diff overheats which is why I wonder how it will hold up.

Kerune

No expert in this discussion, but the GS-F obviously comes with a TVD standard and we have had no real reasons to doubt the reliability other than the fact that it's new to the F cars. It's not a unicorn differential that was catered to people willing to play a riskier game buying an F car, a good amount of us have it.

Having driven two back to back is great and is a lot more than a lot of us can say, but a lot of us who daily this car on the streets can't prove street times and wouldn't care to, we only care about the fact that there's a variety of ways to enjoy the car and you can feel the difference in each TVD mode. Personally yes I would definitely recommend it as I don't even drive in standard mode cuz of my TVD. It's a great feeling trying the same commute to work each day in different modes.

danielTRLK

How many GS F's will actually be tracked and used in that manner? Like I said, I never claimed reliability issues, just curious to how it will hold up to those who hammer it on a track, I've seen other electronic diffs fail when they overheat vs. their LSD counter parts and this diff doesn't have a cooler. Combined with the fact that Toyota says the fluid is also lifetime, the TVD uses a friction modifier additive on top of the diff fluid, so when they're claiming lifetime on both diffs, it is really misleading.

Yes, but the LSD doesn't drive like the TVD, the TVD restricts and opens itself in different modes, no different than driving in Eco vs Sport + so you will definitely feel a difference between modes, that there is no doubt.

TVD would make no difference vs. an LSD on the street unless you live near very unique areas.

For me, it came down to wanting the other features of the non performance pack considering there was no real advantage other than feel to the performance pack. I think they should have offered a non performance pack with the carbon spoiler and the carbon hood as I like the look of that carbon spoiler.

98GS430

I think you make some good points in asking about reliability and questioning the speed difference of the TVD. However, to minimize the value of "feel" in the driving experience is to overlook a key aspect of driving. Feel is one of the most important characteristics of purchasing a car, in MYHO the TVD car just feels like it bites harder in the corners. The car is more nimble on its feet, yes you probably cant fully exploit this in the real world most of the time where lap times dont matter but the feel difference is substantial. See this article for more info about lap times on the Torsen vs. TVD car.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...e-test-feature

Also, i'm willing to bet one of the reasons a lot of us bought F cars is due to their bombproof reliability. Even if you have a problem with the TVD it will likely be within the 6/70k powertrain warranty. If it were me i'd pick the car I liked and not worry about reliability or lap times.

danielTRLK

No doubt, I don't want to spend any money on components nor does anyone here!

I don't doubt feel is a consideration, but in my opinion, that difference in driving was so minimal it wasn't a major thing I'd say would change the experience. I was really cranking out that thing hard and having at one point almost raced bikes professionally, believe me I know feel can be the difference between wanting to take a corner faster.

C/D's article I had read when it first appeared. My only upset about this article is they really didn't compare apples to apples. The non-TVD carries an extra 40-50 pounds on the roof, by their own measure it raised the vehicles COG by a half inch. The TVD also helps the RC F come closer to a 50/50 weight distribution than the non TVD. So what you have is now a model that has better weight distribution and lower center of gravity. C/D claimed a .4 second difference, I bet you without the moonroof that TVD would have been slower. A better example would have been dropping the nonTVD .5" so the moonroof can be ruled out as a variable and placing a 20lb dumbbell in the spare tire holder of the RC F. Weight on the roof is like a lever against the suspension, 50lbs down low on the frame does very little to anything.

Now for a strictly tracked vehicle, since your hands won't cross over, this would allow the average person to post a better lap time, but to even a moderately experienced driver, this wouldn't do much, not unless you're really racing on the track, in which case not having to double cross your hands is a big advantage, especially after you start to get worn and tired. Often times comfort mods were helping us because we could think better at the end of a race not because they were faster. Which is my final concern, I really wish someone had experience tracking this diff hard.

CYKBC

iTrader: (2)

You can split hairs all you want, but in my case and shared with anyone who asks me for RCF buying advice, I wouldn't own an RCF without the TVD and carbon roof/spoiler. I don't track my RCF and never will. TVD makes a material difference in the way the car takes corners at will on public roads and private road courses. Lexus did a marvelous job with TVD and it is the present plus future. E-diffs are part & parcel on the very best super cars this side of Ferrari and McLaren land. I'm on board.

My 997.1 GT3 is a different story. It's well known that the stock mechanical LSD doesn't work. To get it back and do it right, one ponies up $3K to get a proper Guards LSD installed. I'm betting my RCF's TVD will prove durable and reliable for tens of thousands of miles to come. 20K miles and trouble free.