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I think I figured out part of the issue. Took the car in for its 5K, handed them 9 quarts of oil for the change...watched them put in only 9 quarts.
When I checked the car at the dealership, it was full, or slightly over.....odd. Checked it at home, same thing. Should have been slightly low.
Just for the heck of it, and since I was curious, did another full change including filter. Made sure it was hot, waited until everything drained....then measured the drained oil, ~9.3 or 9.4Q. If the dealer is rushing the drain, and leaves 1/3 or more of quart in the car, then adds another 9.3, instant overfill.
Sequence in TIS is drain the sump first, then replace the plug...then drain the filter. I left the plug out and once I opened the filter cover, more oil came out of the drain plug. That might account for part of it too.
Oddly, I only added 9 quarts, intending to top off after driving, and its showing on the full dot after 10+ minutes at rest. I can't figure that one out, unless there was even more in the engine that I didn't drain, or my very minor floor slope (towards back of the car) affects it this much. For the drain, the car was on a lift, so pretty much horizontal.
I don't but my only other guess is the oil cooler. I don't know if those hold much oil in general.
the oil cooler and ancillary lines are holding onto a bit, hence the huge difference in DRY fill amount... but full change with filter should be close to correct on the revised/later numbers. When I purchased my used F it had a service recently prior, and was also overfilled.
I think I figured out part of the issue. Took the car in for its 5K, handed them 9 quarts of oil for the change...watched them put in only 9 quarts.
When I checked the car at the dealership, it was full, or slightly over.....odd. Checked it at home, same thing. Should have been slightly low.
Just for the heck of it, and since I was curious, did another full change including filter. Made sure it was hot, waited until everything drained....then measured the drained oil, ~9.3 or 9.4Q. If the dealer is rushing the drain, and leaves 1/3 or more of quart in the car, then adds another 9.3, instant overfill.
Sequence in TIS is drain the sump first, then replace the plug...then drain the filter. I left the plug out and once I opened the filter cover, more oil came out of the drain plug. That might account for part of it too.
Oddly, I only added 9 quarts, intending to top off after driving, and its showing on the full dot after 10+ minutes at rest. I can't figure that one out, unless there was even more in the engine that I didn't drain, or my very minor floor slope (towards back of the car) affects it this much. For the drain, the car was on a lift, so pretty much horizontal.
I remove my filter while the sump is draining, and then let both drip dry usually for at least 30-60 minutes before I put in the new filter and start my refill process. Once I get to quart 8 I start checking the dipstick. Once I see it on the dipstick, I start the car and warm it up. Then I add oil until it is exactly halfway between the low and full mark on the dipstick. It's been consistent at 8.75 quarts to get there on each fill so far (three of them). Not sure where that extra oil is hiding - oil cooler or lines I guess. But I would overfill if I just assumed it was 9.3 quarts every time.
The tech at the dealer will never take the time to do it exactly right - unless it was his own car. Precisely why I am fine ignoring the Dealer's free oil changes and doing them myself.
I remove my filter while the sump is draining, and then let both drip dry usually for at least 30-60 minutes before I put in the new filter and start my refill process. Once I get to quart 8 I start checking the dipstick. Once I see it on the dipstick, I start the car and warm it up. Then I add oil until it is exactly halfway between the low and full mark on the dipstick. It's been consistent at 8.75 quarts to get there on each fill so far (three of them). Not sure where that extra oil is hiding - oil cooler or lines I guess. But I would overfill if I just assumed it was 9.3 quarts every time.
The tech at the dealer will never take the time to do it exactly right - unless it was his own car. Precisely why I am fine ignoring the Dealer's free oil changes and doing them myself.
8.75Q probably would have been about right, I let both the filter and sump drain drip dry.... So can anyone explain what's going on here? Is the manual off, are we missing something? Never had a car I couldn't trust the manual on oil changes assuming you let it drip dry. I'm stumped.
Just removed about a quart after an overfill. When I checked the dipstick it was a 1/3” over the hi dot. So I bought a pump for sucking out oil from the dipstick on Amazon. Worked great. Too well intact as I was not prepared how well it removed the oil and made a mess (my fault obviously). It was pretty inexpensive at $20. Just hooked it up to the battery and it drained a quarts worth in 20 seconds.
Here is the link to the pump I used. Worked out great.
The dealer said on my RCF 2017 the dipstick shows more if they put in the prescribed amount
Looks like mechanics do not understand what “reference capacity” actually means. my 2011 corolla and 2015 is350 have reference capacities of 4.4 and 6.6 qt, respectively. But I only buy 10 quarts to do an oil change in both and the level ends up right in the middle for both dipsticks. That is to say, that I put 4 and 6 quarts in. The engine retains about 10% of oil during the oil change...
And this thread (and many others) is an example of why I prefer to change my own oil. Takes me an hour max, and I dont have to deal with inept “qualified” “mechanics” putting in wrong oil at the incorrect level, and forcing me to schedule another appointment after having already lost 2-3 hours on the previous one.
I just did my first oil change myself on my 2017 RC F. I only added about 8.25 quarts, but I guess I didn't warm it up before checking so the level is already just below the top dot. I changed the filter and let both the filter and the drain hole drain for at least 30 mins before refilling. Tomorrow I'll warm it up and let it settle for 5+ mins and check again, see if I need to add a bit more. I suspect the 9.3qt on the manual is a bit too much, 8.75 sounds about right, so I'll probably have to add another 1/2 qt.
Believe some of the variability we all see on oil fill levels is due to the fact that most of us fill up the oil filer with oil prior to screwing it on. I doubt that the dealerships are doing that. Like I stated in an earlier post, my dealership overfilled dipstick by an inch first three fills. After that, told them that please check and confirm in writing on the receipt that dipstick was correct, or I would not take back the car untill I checked it myself at the dealership. After that, next two were correct, then I started changing oil myself.
Just makes you think, I dealership can't get the oil level correct, how much brake fluid, transmission fluid, and coolant do I really have in my car? What's that line? "Trust but verify"?
Believe some of the variability we all see on oil fill levels is due to the fact that most of us fill up the oil filer with oil prior to screwing it on. I doubt that the dealerships are doing that. Like I stated in an earlier post, my dealership overfilled dipstick by an inch first three fills. After that, told them that please check and confirm in writing on the receipt that dipstick was correct, or I would not take back the car untill I checked it myself at the dealership. After that, next two were correct, then I started changing oil myself.
Just maked you think, I dealership can't get the oil level correct, how much brake fluid, transmission fluid, and coolant do I really have in my car? What's that line? "Trust but verify"?
I do the same thing, oil the filter up then put it on. I agree on doing regular maintenance by yourself, though. That way, you can do the entire procedure and make 100% sure that you're not overfilling, underfilling or anything of the sort. It seems like dealerships these days just don't understand tolerances anymore (have they ever?)
If you don't change the oil yourself on an RCF, you are pretty much guaranteed to get it overfilled. It's not a Lexus service problem, it's the RCF service manuals. Lexus never overfilled my IS350 over 5 years. Even if you do it yourself, your going to overfill if you use the 9.8 (2015) or 9.3 (2016-2021) quarts listed in the manuals.
I have a 2015 RCF and the first time I had Lexus change the oil, they put 9.8 quarts per the manual. It was WAY overfilled on the dip stick. I went back and they pulled over a quart out to get the level correct on the dip stick. The Lexus service advisor tried to tell me that performance cars burn oil, so it's ok to be overfilled. While that might be true with some older cars, that's BS for a properly broken in RCF. I don't track my car, but it regularly sees 7K RPM in Sport + Manual mode (the only way to drive an RCF) and the oil level never drops between oil changes, even after 47K miles.
9.0 quarts seems to be the amount required with a filter change.
Believe some of the variability we all see on oil fill levels is due to the fact that most of us fill up the oil filer with oil prior to screwing it on. I doubt that the dealerships are doing that. Like I stated in an earlier post, my dealership overfilled dipstick by an inch first three fills. After that, told them that please check and confirm in writing on the receipt that dipstick was correct, or I would not take back the car untill I checked it myself at the dealership. After that, next two were correct, then I started changing oil myself.
Just makes you think, I dealership can't get the oil level correct, how much brake fluid, transmission fluid, and coolant do I really have in my car? What's that line? "Trust but verify"?
Yeah, I think that probably has something to do with it. Checking it after it's fully warmed up (then sat for about 10 mins), as opposed to just running the engine for a couple mins also makes a big difference. I rechecked it today after running some errands and then letting sit about 10 mins (manual says 5+ mins I believe), and it ended up at near the lower dot so I decided to add some more. In all, counting what was put in the filter I put in a total of slightly over 9 qts, probably 9.1 qts, for the oil level to be about 1/8 inch shy of the top dot.
In other words, I think the 9.3 qts spec is exactly right. Maybe the engineers at Lexus do know how to measure volume
If you don't change the oil yourself on an RCF, you are pretty much guaranteed to get it overfilled. It's not a Lexus service problem, it's the RCF service manuals. Lexus never overfilled my IS350 over 5 years. Even if you do it yourself, your going to overfill if you use the 9.8 (2015) or 9.3 (2016-2021) quarts listed in the manuals.
I have a 2015 RCF and the first time I had Lexus change the oil, they put 9.8 quarts per the manual. It was WAY overfilled on the dip stick. I went back and they pulled over a quart out to get the level correct on the dip stick. The Lexus service advisor tried to tell me that performance cars burn oil, so it's ok to be overfilled. While that might be true with some older cars, that's BS for a properly broken in RCF. I don't track my car, but it regularly sees 7K RPM in Sport + Manual mode (the only way to drive an RCF) and the oil level never drops between oil changes, even after 47K miles.
9.0 quarts seems to be the amount required with a filter change.
Well well, looks like Mr. Service Advisor was trying to excuse his team's mistake. In good engines with good PCV systems, most of the time a car will only burn oil unless if it has a manufacturing defect or it is overfilled, or in some instances under heavy G loads (though this could generally be caused by overfilling). Basically, you don't overfill an engine because if the crankshaft hits the oil (or even gets too close to it) it will cause the surface oil to foam, which gets up past your rings and suddenly... blue smoke!
The reason why the manual says 9.3 is that's if the system is completely dried. I would suspect many dealerships don't let the oil drain for long enough, and even if they did, probably over half a quart gets collected in the cooler. Cars without an air-to-oil oil cooler don't have a cooler for the oil to collect in, so that explains your IS350.
Well just checked my dipstick and it was a little under 1/2 inch overfilled… just had it at the dealer Friday to perform a pre-purchase inspection and they confirmed that they “check engine oil and condition”. Clearly that didn’t happen. I’ve been driving the car very enthusiastically since I got it Wednesday, should I be concerned? Going to call up my service advisor tomorrow morning and have a little chat.
While it is true that these cars are standardized, there are still tolerances in every machined part--including dipsticks and placements of the dots and sump volume, yadda yadda yadda. While the dipstick is the only indicator you have to go bye and should not be ignored try not to go ballistic if the dealership volumetric fill indicator is different than what the dipstick says.
07-25-18, 09:46 PM
