winglet

shadow1118

forreal though, the only way I could be disappointed in the RCF is if I daily an huracan or 911 turbo or anything better or as good as those cars which are basically the best cars money can buy.

TXgearhead

Kerune

Doug makes good reviews overall. No one here will change their opinions about their RC-Fs because of the review (unless you're just shopping for one now maybe) but most of us commonly agree on some points about how this car is misunderstood and this review just reiterates that.

To be fair, if you're going to say at the end of your video that the car is "a great deal" then you should touch up on that throughout the review. If he did that then he would've gotten most of our points across.

05RollaXRS

He is putting it out there to be scrutinized so why it should not be called out? Because, when someone only says negative things and does not give credit where it is due, it only feeds into the confirmation bias of those who want to believe the negative hype. It also feeds into the mockery we owners who spent our hard earned money face and what we experience knowing about the car much more than him. He puts titles like those to generate the most views. That is the difference between someone looking to get the most revenue vs other reviews we posted. They acknowledged the weight, but then went on to explore the positives of the car.

Doug goes by his biases and what his research shows. If he is in favor of something (like the NSX or Stinger), he would go to the end to defend it and if he is against something, he would make bull***** up and make factually inaccurate statements (he did the same when he did the LFA review and I don't want to go into those).

TXgearhead

05RollaXRS

Yes, I watched the Ghibli review. I did not like that review, but I liked his NSX review even less. There is a whole video made by a guy explaining how he is biased in favor.

He might have driven all of those cars, but he understands very little about their dynamic capabilities because he experiences them in a very limited way. Like I said above, you cannot drive a car on city roads for a few hours and think you know the car at its limits. He declared LFAs steering not "precise enough" when everyone on the race track praises its adaptive steering, he gave LFA an 8 in handling, but 9 to slower cars around the track like 430 Scuderia. He made jokes about Lexus putting a hood prop not realizing it was a more expensive carbon fiber hood prop and he did not know LFA had shift speed control then goes on to criticize the shift speed not knowing he was driving in one of the slower modes and had no idea where the switch was etc. I could go on, but that gives you an idea.

His scoring for RCF was OK, for the most part.

TRANC3

I actually really enjoy Doug's reviews. Are they fully comprehensive and unbiased? No! Does he test the cars to their intended extremes? No! Would I base my purchase of a car solely on his (or anyone else's for that matter) reviews? Of course not!

The internet is a treasure trove of information - and mis-information - but as with anything, you can't just take a single source as the basis to form your own opinion. Of course RC-F owners will take issue with this review, but I'd argue that amongst the web of opinions raised in this review there are some truths. It's our job as intelligent product users to take on board all the information, filter out the crap, and decide for ourselves what is right for us.

I think we would have all gone through this process when buying our RC-F's, consciously or not, and decided that it was the right car for us, despite some of it's downfalls - which EVERY car would have some of.

I don't feel the need to defend my purchase. I bought it because I like it! End of story.

Vitveet

Another +1 here for Doug's reviews! He actually an AWESOME reviewer, and definitely my personal favorite. Does a very thorough and fair job of reviewing vehicles, and most of the time he spends DAYS in these vehicles, not hrs.
Rarely, if ever, does he take vehicles on a "track" so his reviews aren't going to be based on that. He's going off of ''streetability" for the most part on his test drives.
His RCF review was fair...and accurate. We all know that the longer you own a car, the more you learn about it (both good and bad) and I'm sure that if doug owned the RCF for a few months or more, his review would be better. For a small example, 05rolla just made a post about not knowing the F could/would drop to 2nd gear at 60mph from 8th going up a hill....and the sounds it made (stock exhaust iirc).... something you'd may or may not run across in a day or two test driver....but something all people who've owned an F for any substantial amount of time know. Was surprised that shocked him. Anyway, just a small example.
And to finish it off, yes the RCF is an EXCELLENT car for the prices used ones are going for...can't think of a car where you could get more for your money!

V.

RRRacing

iTrader: (1)

This was a terrible review. I met Doug about 1.5 years ago. He expressed interest in testing our Supercharged ISF and RCF... got one email from him, and then he disappeared and now simply doesn't respond.

The M4 and RCF are pretty evenly matched. Its clear that Lexus "tunes" the RCF to be a little softer and more GT vs. track oriented... BUT this is such an irrelevant point as 99% of drivers cannot take either of these cars anywhere near their limits at the track, let alone on the street. Last year some Russian dude showed up at the track with an M4 "Competition Pack" bragging about his $90k M4, how its the fastest around the Nurburgring, blah blah.... out on the track his laptimes weren't within 10 seconds of the car magazine times... and that's not that he was a terrible driver, its just the way its going to be for 99/100 who are obsessed with nitpicking the differences between M4/RCF.

Here is how I see the M4 vs. RCF decision:

Reasons to buy the RCF:

(1) You are actually buying the car rather than leasing. So you probably want to keep it longer than 2-3 years. The RCF is going to be infinitely more reliable low less expensive to maintain than an M4 in the long run.
(2) Doug rips the exhaust sound of the RCF... but stock or with an exhaust, RCF v8 sound is in another world compared to the M4. And sound is important, otherwise, there would be nothing special about Ferraris and Lambos, and we would all be driving Teslas.
(3) Lexus "tunes" the RCF to be more comfortable and softer. If you want more out of our RCF, its so easy to completely change the character of the car with a basic suspension upgrade.
(4) Buy the RCF used -- its a no-risk no-brainer. Prices are good and the car is bulletproof. I'd buy one off-warranty in a second.

Reasons to buy the M4:

(1) you worship car magazine reviews -- you read that the M4 is 1.12 sec faster at the track, and you must have it for that reason
(2) you are leasing the car anyway, and don't give a crap about long term reliability. Vast majority of M-cars are leased. I was told once by a friend who worked at a BMW dealership that its about 90% -- don't know if that's true.
(3) you prefer the M4 styling

Rafi

TXgearhead

05RollaXRS

Well said, Rafi. Such good points from a real tuning company.

05RollaXRS

In a head to head comparison with Randy Pobst, the cars were 3/10th apart from each other with similar results in the 1/4 mile. I have driven both cars and other than midrange turbo torque where you feel a significant difference part-throttle especially in high gear/low engine load scenarios whereas, I have to keep my RCF screaming in low gears to get maximum instantaneous response. When going all-out to redline, a few tenths are difficult to tell apart especially when you are not launching and already rolling in high rpms on roads like a race track etc.

RRRacing

iTrader: (1)

I've driven them all, going back to the e36 M3. I have driven 458's, GT3's at the track. And BTW, I also own a 991 Carrera S

That said, even with my Porsche, I can honestly tell you that putting aside the badge, the more I drive the 911 the more I appreciate the RCF. As a car that you live with every day, enjoy, and depend on, I'd prefer the RCF any day. Of course, I never leave any of my cars stock, so to get that super precise and "connected" feel I'd install our RRR/Penske suspension, USRS bushings, and add a little noise with some exhaust/header upgrade. Basic bolt ons, totally reliable, beat the crap out of it every day coupe that you never have to worry about. One of the most striking observations I have of a tuned RCF vs. my 991S is how amazing the RCF sounds, and even though it is heavy, how connected it feels while its still a super comfortable GT cruiser. The seats in the RCF are one of the most comfortable seats I've ever sat in, they are amazing.

As far as performance goes, with basic bolt ons and good tires, you can show up to any HPDE day in an RCF and be one of the fastest cars, and that includes M4's, Caymans, Camaro's, vettes, etc... assuming your driving is decent.

Rafi

ragingf80

To be clear, this is the first time I've seen Chris' video on the RC F.*
And* even if one asks "why does this car have to weigh 400 lbs more than the M4?" it would still be a valid argument.

I disagree.* His whole argument is what he felt and experienced while driving the car.* Mistakenly saying kg instead of lbs doesn't invalidate that the car felt heavy.* I've done a lot of international work.* Sometimes I get mixed up and say Dollars instead of Yuan, or kilometers instead of miles.* It's just a slip of the tongue.

I don't hate the RC F.* I just chose to go with another car.* I don't have to hate one car to like another.

Because it's an $80k car optioned out.* The Stinger is not in the same class.* The RC F isn't a flop because of low sales, it has low sales because it didn't meet many enthusiasts expectations.* Maybe that's the problem.* Some of us had very high expectations after the IS F.* We expected something revolutionary and it didn't quite reach our expectations.* As I've said before, that doesn't mean it's a bad car, just that a lot of us looked elsewhere.

Because other in-house tuners like the M Division can stiffen the chassis of an F30 while making the car lighter... why can't Lexus?* Answer:* they wanted to lean more luxury than sport.* That's fine, but then you lost me as a customer.

I don't really mind what it's called.* GT coupe, Luxury Coup, Luxury Cruiser, Luxury Sports Tourer, etc...* I'm glad you are more than happy with your car.* It just wasn't what I was looking for.* *
*