Doug Demuro: Here’s Why the Lexus RC-F Has Been a Total Flop
07-17-18, 04:31 PM
#76
This was a terrible review. I met Doug about 1.5 years ago. He expressed interest in testing our Supercharged ISF and RCF... got one email from him, and then he disappeared and now simply doesn't respond.
The M4 and RCF are pretty evenly matched. Its clear that Lexus "tunes" the RCF to be a little softer and more GT vs. track oriented... BUT this is such an irrelevant point as 99% of drivers cannot take either of these cars anywhere near their limits at the track, let alone on the street. Last year some Russian dude showed up at the track with an M4 "Competition Pack" bragging about his $90k M4, how its the fastest around the Nurburgring, blah blah.... out on the track his laptimes weren't within 10 seconds of the car magazine times... and that's not that he was a terrible driver, its just the way its going to be for 99/100 who are obsessed with nitpicking the differences between M4/RCF.
The M4 and RCF are pretty evenly matched. Its clear that Lexus "tunes" the RCF to be a little softer and more GT vs. track oriented... BUT this is such an irrelevant point as 99% of drivers cannot take either of these cars anywhere near their limits at the track, let alone on the street. Last year some Russian dude showed up at the track with an M4 "Competition Pack" bragging about his $90k M4, how its the fastest around the Nurburgring, blah blah.... out on the track his laptimes weren't within 10 seconds of the car magazine times... and that's not that he was a terrible driver, its just the way its going to be for 99/100 who are obsessed with nitpicking the differences between M4/RCF.
Here is how I see the M4 vs. RCF decision:
Reasons to buy the RCF:
(1) You are actually buying the car rather than leasing. So you probably want to keep it longer than 2-3 years. The RCF is going to be infinitely more reliable low less expensive to maintain than an M4 in the long run.
(2) Doug rips the exhaust sound of the RCF... but stock or with an exhaust, RCF v8 sound is in another world compared to the M4. And sound is important, otherwise, there would be nothing special about Ferraris and Lambos, and we would all be driving Teslas.
(3) Lexus "tunes" the RCF to be more comfortable and softer. If you want more out of our RCF, its so easy to completely change the character of the car with a basic suspension upgrade.
(4) Buy the RCF used -- its a no-risk no-brainer. Prices are good and the car is bulletproof. I'd buy one off-warranty in a second.
Reasons to buy the RCF:
(1) You are actually buying the car rather than leasing. So you probably want to keep it longer than 2-3 years. The RCF is going to be infinitely more reliable low less expensive to maintain than an M4 in the long run.
(2) Doug rips the exhaust sound of the RCF... but stock or with an exhaust, RCF v8 sound is in another world compared to the M4. And sound is important, otherwise, there would be nothing special about Ferraris and Lambos, and we would all be driving Teslas.
(3) Lexus "tunes" the RCF to be more comfortable and softer. If you want more out of our RCF, its so easy to completely change the character of the car with a basic suspension upgrade.
(4) Buy the RCF used -- its a no-risk no-brainer. Prices are good and the car is bulletproof. I'd buy one off-warranty in a second.
(2) Doug wasn't comparing it to an M4, which sounds much much worse than the stock RC F. He was comparing it to other V8s. Remember, Doug doesn't think too highly of the F8X either. He hasn't reviewed one, but based on what he said about the older M3's, he isn't in a hurry to get his hands on an F8X.
(3) This is exactly what I've been saying.
(4) Can't argue with you there.
Reasons to buy the M4:
(1) you worship car magazine reviews -- you read that the M4 is 1.12 sec faster at the track, and you must have it for that reason
(2) you are leasing the car anyway, and don't give a crap about long term reliability. Vast majority of M-cars are leased. I was told once by a friend who worked at a BMW dealership that its about 90% -- don't know if that's true.
(3) you prefer the M4 styling
Rafi
(1) you worship car magazine reviews -- you read that the M4 is 1.12 sec faster at the track, and you must have it for that reason
(2) you are leasing the car anyway, and don't give a crap about long term reliability. Vast majority of M-cars are leased. I was told once by a friend who worked at a BMW dealership that its about 90% -- don't know if that's true.
(3) you prefer the M4 styling
Rafi
(2) True. The F8X leases very well. It doesn't make financial sense to lease when the residuals on the leases are so inflated.
(3) As a coupe, I prefer the RC F style. I actually don't particularly like the M4 stock.
(4) You're forgetting the obvious: You like how it drives. You like how deceptively toss-able it is. You love the monster torque and how easy it is to go around the track (although I personally find 3rd to be a hair too tall)
Last edited by lobuxracer; 07-19-18 at 07:17 PM.
07-18-18, 06:43 AM
#77
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quote from Doug's website:
"It recently occurred to me that some of you people, certainly my craziest viewers and readers, actually pay attention to my opinion when it comes to purchasing automobiles. This is especially surprising to me, personally, because my friends don’t even trust my opinion when it comes to buying toothpaste."
I think we can all agree
Rafi
"It recently occurred to me that some of you people, certainly my craziest viewers and readers, actually pay attention to my opinion when it comes to purchasing automobiles. This is especially surprising to me, personally, because my friends don’t even trust my opinion when it comes to buying toothpaste."
I think we can all agree
Rafi
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07-18-18, 08:22 AM
#78
I watch his reviews to see what cool options/features new cars have; his review on performance rolls off my back like water on a duck.
Y'all getting bent out of shape over some Youtuber's opinion.
Y'all getting bent out of shape over some Youtuber's opinion.
07-18-18, 08:45 AM
#79
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The new 2018 Mustang GT with the 10spd auto is very fast, owners have been getting high 11s stock BUT the latest generation F80 M3 has put down 11.6 bone stock.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...le-bone-stock/
07-18-18, 09:16 AM
#80
Why is this thread still alive?...LOL
Doug Demuro is an "entertainer reviewer"....like Top Gear. Its all in to get laughs and entertainment first rather than "hard factual un-biased reviewing". It's crazy how there have been so many RC-F threads of people defending their purchase or their point of view (don't even get me into the whole comical ISF vs RCF threads).
You like what you like. That should be the end of it. LOL.
Doug Demuro is an "entertainer reviewer"....like Top Gear. Its all in to get laughs and entertainment first rather than "hard factual un-biased reviewing". It's crazy how there have been so many RC-F threads of people defending their purchase or their point of view (don't even get me into the whole comical ISF vs RCF threads).
You like what you like. That should be the end of it. LOL.
07-18-18, 11:42 AM
#81
2018 Mustang GT spanking an M3 at the track?
The new 2018 Mustang GT with the 10spd auto is very fast, owners have been getting high 11s stock BUT the latest generation F80 M3 has put down 11.6 bone stock.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...le-bone-stock/
The new 2018 Mustang GT with the 10spd auto is very fast, owners have been getting high 11s stock BUT the latest generation F80 M3 has put down 11.6 bone stock.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...le-bone-stock/
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05RollaXRS (07-18-18)
07-18-18, 11:15 PM
#82
Since we're talking about reviews. Here's one by Collins. The original stig on top gear. What the car can do in capable hands.
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TRANC3 (07-19-18)
07-19-18, 01:18 AM
#83
I don't care what they say about the Lexus performance models... the fact is this..
Your trips to the dealer will be much less than your German counter parts. I will never ever buy a brand new BMW M5 for example. It knocks the "new car" taste straight outta your mouth one year into your ownership.
Your trips to the dealer will be much less than your German counter parts. I will never ever buy a brand new BMW M5 for example. It knocks the "new car" taste straight outta your mouth one year into your ownership.
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bob67 (07-19-18)
07-19-18, 02:22 PM
#84
Since we're talking about reviews. Here's one by Collins. The original stig on top gear. What the car can do in capable hands.
https://youtu.be/6zg0Bt4Rv3U
https://youtu.be/6zg0Bt4Rv3U
I also like Chris Harris. I just think Chris’ review of the RCF was already at a disadvantage as he admittedly stated in the beginning of the review that he already had high expectations which is almost always leads to disappointment.
07-19-18, 06:26 PM
#85
Since we're talking about reviews. Here's one by Collins. The original stig on top gear. What the car can do in capable hands.
https://youtu.be/6zg0Bt4Rv3U
https://youtu.be/6zg0Bt4Rv3U
07-19-18, 10:40 PM
#86
I agree. But to some extent it’s the same with any car isn’t it? Take for example the M3. Performance car. Better performance with each iteration by a fairly wide margin. Yet, The F80 wasn’t universally loved by critics or even the E92 crowd that missed the “rawness” of the n/a V8 ...the E46 crowd have criticisms with the E90s being too plush....Even if you make vanilla ice cream that has the best ingredients, has a better shelf life, costs less to make....simply performs the best in every way... you can’t make a blanket statement that everyone will like it.
The truth = Compared to the RCF the M3/M4 is the better performance car in terms of track and magazine performance stats
Opinion = Compared to the RCF the M3/M4 is the better car
Can’t we all just accept we like different flavors but we still love ice cream?
The truth = Compared to the RCF the M3/M4 is the better performance car in terms of track and magazine performance stats
Opinion = Compared to the RCF the M3/M4 is the better car
Can’t we all just accept we like different flavors but we still love ice cream?
07-20-18, 08:25 AM
#87
I agree. But to some extent it’s the same with any car isn’t it? Take for example the M3. Performance car. Better performance with each iteration by a fairly wide margin. Yet, The F80 wasn’t universally loved by critics or even the E92 crowd that missed the “rawness” of the n/a V8 ...the E46 crowd have criticisms with the E90s being too plush....Even if you make vanilla ice cream that has the best ingredients, has a better shelf life, costs less to make....simply performs the best in every way... you can’t make a blanket statement that everyone will like it.
The truth = Compared to the RCF the M3/M4 is the better performance car in terms of track and magazine performance stats
Opinion = Compared to the RCF the M3/M4 is the better car
Can’t we all just accept we like different flavors but we still love ice cream?
07-20-18, 09:43 AM
#89
LOL, Doug moved to LA and started partying to much. It happens.
07-20-18, 06:41 PM
#90
I agree. But to some extent it’s the same with any car isn’t it? Take for example the M3. Performance car. Better performance with each iteration by a fairly wide margin. Yet, The F80 wasn’t universally loved by critics or even the E92 crowd that missed the “rawness” of the n/a V8 ...the E46 crowd have criticisms with the E90s being too plush....Even if you make vanilla ice cream that has the best ingredients, has a better shelf life, costs less to make....simply performs the best in every way... you can’t make a blanket statement that everyone will like it.
The truth = Compared to the RCF the M3/M4 is the better performance car in terms of track and magazine performance stats
Opinion = Compared to the RCF the M3/M4 is the better car
Can’t we all just accept we like different flavors but we still love ice cream?