LRCSALES

iTrader: (1)

Hey everyone, after I found out the specs of the 2020 track edition RCF and regular RCF frankly i was disappointed. I voiced my opinion through Lexus Guest Experience email. I will upload the conversation when it has completed so for i have just been receiving "Copy and Paste" responses from a guy named Cameron. Apparently "lexus asked customers and enthusiasts like you" when building the track edition which was not true in my mind. I know several GSF and RCF owners in here and instagram and have not heard of anyone being questioned. I told them plainly "if you want to build a successful Enthusiast car, you need to ask us. And not question the people who just bought the car because it was expensive"


I will be divulging the entire conversation shortly. Some of you may not agree to what I have inquired them about but i think most of us can agree that Lexus could have done much more with the track edition and the regular RCF


ME:
Hello,

I am looking to speak with someone about the upcoming performance line up, mainly the F cars. I am a current RCF owner.


LEXUS: Dear Mr. xxxxxx:

Thank you for contacting Lexus. We're thrilled to hear you're interested in future F model Lexus vehicles.

As it turns out, Lexus does not release information on future model vehicles until an official announcement is made on the vehicle. Lexus will release information on future F model vehicles, including styling, specifications, features and options, closer to the launch date, which is typically announced in the Fall of each year.

Have you registered for Lexus Driversyet or downloaded the Lexus Drivers app (Apple App Store, Google Play Store)? Lexus Drivers is the best way to learn about our current and future vehicles, and our exclusive rewards and events. You can also visit our Revealspage or our New Modelspage, or follow us on social mediaand join our community.

We hope you found this information helpful. If you have any other questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us. We are glad to help at any time.
Sincerely,
Lexus Guest Experience Center

ME: I am completely aware of those resources. I wanted to speak to a corporate representative about the F model line up. Not to be re directed to your website. Most of the information about the 2020 RCF and track edition has been released in Detroit I also sold lexus models and did technology deliveries for 5 years. My family personally have purchased 11 new lexus cars starting in 2010. My current RCF has 5400 followers instagram and is featured on VOSSEN WHEELS website. Would you like to hear what I have to say or not?

LEXUS: Dear Mr. xxxx

Please feel free to reply to this email with the information or feedback you have regarding the RC F. We look forward to hearing from you soon.
Sincerely,
Cameron
Lexus Guest Experience Center

ME:

So I just wanted to let you know my experience and get some feedback about the Track Edition RCF. So I think everyone is clear that an RCF is more geared to an Auto Enthusiast such as my self. Just like the M3, C63, and RS5 or 4. The success of the M3 is partially due to the fact that BMW makes a car that the Enthusiasts want.


I am trying to email this in a easy way to follow but I have a lot I would like to say, But the point of the email is from what I and what a lot of other people are Disappointed with the outcome and stats of the Track Edition RCF and Normal RCF. We expected a lot more to be blunt. You did address some of the issues we had with the car which mainly hovered around the Fact that it was plainly too heavy.


1) RCF is too heavy with its power output
2) the interface was bad
3) the cooling seats barely worked most of the time makes it hotter
3a) Ive personally weighed the seats and they weigh 70lbs each!
4) no carbon roof or carbon hood for non TVD cars
5)Exhaust was too quiet (LC500 and GSF sound much better)
6)not enough carbon on the interior.
7)rear headrests hinder view
8)Doors were extremely heavy(resulting the the door SLAMMING shut unless you pull very light. Also contributed to the curb weight.
9)the automated rear wing added more unnecessary weight
10) Complicated extremely expensive TVD differential. Adding weight and cost.

So now on to the Track Edition which we all were extremely excited for!!! lower weight, looks, new interface, and more power. But we were pretty much let down.

1)You added 5 hp to get it to 472, 1 more than the LC so you can say the most powerful Lexus in the line up. Most of the owners who are enthusiasts have added a better flowing exhaust to add around 50 to 60 more HP with zero issues. So I don’t understand why you couldn’t just give the car another 30 to 40. None of the people who bought the car care about Fuel economy. So added more HP would have been nice.

2) weight I believe was 174 lbs lighter this is acceptable you ditch the automated wing, went to carbon brakes, and carbon roof and hood. But looks like the seats just had alacantara added.

3)doors im not sure if you went to aluminum door or not but hopefully some weight was shaved here

4) looks like the tvd was dropped

5) new nav interface updated (looks like we got a spot for our phone since the seat climate buttons were moved.

So what happened with the TT 4.0L engine? Adding 5 hp to a Track edition model is basically laughable. The rest will be determined when or if I get to see a car. But I’m wondering is the 2020 RCF just the normal lights, bumpers, nav, wheels and color update? I at this point can say that I am NOT a return buyer for another RCF. I have talked to plenty owners online and the general consensus is they would rather keep their 2015 to 2018. This is very very sad. Because one of the most important things about BMW and Mercedes is they keep making the car better. I just feel like you guys really dropped the ball on the 10th anniversary RCF GSF and the Track edition. I have a friend who was offered $17,000 off a 10th anniversary GSF. And at my previous dealership we did not even have anyone want to test drive our 10th anniversary. The flat color paint and blue seats and black wheels really didn’t help the car(s) at all. I know lexus has extreme amount of Intelligence, passion, experience and know how to build a much much better product. Please quit spending the money on gimmick parts and colors give us what we want. Results.

LEXUS:Dear Mr. xxxxxx

Thank you for providing your feedback regarding the RC F. We certainly appreciate hearing the thoughts of an enthusiast, such as yourself.

We also appreciate the time you have spent to share your feedback, as it is through communications such as yours that we become aware of our customers' expectations and reactions. It also provides us with valuable insight when planning and developing future products and services to increase our customers' satisfaction.

Lexus researches the market by conducting interviews, issuing surveys, and convening focus groups, but the best insights come from vehicle owners—like you—who take time to share their real-world experiences.
Your email has been documented at our National Headquarters. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us.
Sincerely,
Lexus Guest Experience Center

ME Thank you for your response, I am actually not satisfied with your explanation. I keep getting blanketed copy and paste responses form you and its disheartening.


Obviously you are not asking the right types of people. You should try and contact owners who have Instagram page display their RCF project and get hundreds to thousands of likes. These are the people you need to ask and satisfy. Not the 65 year old retired rich guy who bought the car because it was the most expensive coupe at the time. If you choose to build a successful enthusiast car you need to speak to us. In the forums and on instagram you haven’t talked to anyone I know. So I know you are not asking the right questions to the right people. You avoided every question I had except the technical ones which are the most important. I mean are you concerned that most of the current RCF owner’s do not want another RCF? I feel like that is paramount.

Eckotyper

iTrader: (3)

subscribing to see where this goes.

05RollaXRS

Call me crazy, but I am very happy Lexus is doing this. I was initially disappointed in the HP increase as I expected at least 480 - 490 HP, but the weight reduction is a bit higher than the 150 lbs I predicted.

It has brought back a lot relevance of the RCF in the market. The buzz and hype around the track RCF is much more than I initially expected. People seem to have genuine passion for this car after it has been in production for 5 years. Hope it lives up to it.

LRCSALES

iTrader: (1)

i totally agree since ive had mine since June 2015. But they could have done alot more and you know that as well. they are only making 60 units so i would say this is bringing alot of relevance but maybe just some more interest .

05RollaXRS

Yeah, I see your point. Though, they said 60 units/year for the US market alone. So, assuming RCF has 2 years at least of life left in it, US will end up getting a total of 120. Not sure how many there will be globally. Though, you are right even at 120 at least in total for the US market, the dealerships are going to marking these things up quite a bit so overall yes, they should be making a lot more than 60/year of these track editions.

Benoit

Just to ad. They probably really have asked enthousiasts about this car. But you forget that Lexus is japanese brand. I wouldn't be surprised if they have at least a part of their staff going to drift event and other little local race areas on a regular basics or beeing active in their local tuning scene themselves. And it's probably there that the conversations where done.
I have not a single proof for what I'm saying, but it seems logical to me.

skipetenj

iTrader: (2)

The price tag will be the interesting fact - you can build a substantially better RC F with aftermarket products at a reasonable cost factor. Carbon ceramic brakes are an expensive waste in my book. They could have gone for more weight reduction.

LRCSALES

iTrader: (1)

seems I have been ghosted by lexus . i will upload the convo soon sorry to keep everyone waiting.

LRCSALES

iTrader: (1)

Convo added. My last email was not responded to

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Maybe you've missed something important - Yaguchi got a direct message from me about the RC F through an intermediary at Pike's Peak before the RC F was announced. Request #1 - make it LIGHT. Request #2 - make the suspension geometry ADJUSTABLE. Did either of these make production? No. Fast forward to the GS F forum - complaints about the "non-Lexus" ride of the 2016. Seriously? Complaints about the ride? WTF? Did these people fail to understand this is a performance oriented platform, and if your roads suck as bad as the concrete excuses for roadway I experienced in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, maybe a performance oriented vehicle is inappropriate for your locale?

So Lexus is caught between a rock and a hard place. If they build something truly performance oriented, their traditional customer base will reject it - AS THEY ALREADY HAVE for both the RC F and the GS F (and the IS F if you look at the year over year sales numbers). F cars sell like ice cubes in December in Fairbanks, AK. Seriously, these are not making a dime for Toyota and it was obvious to me when we bought our GS F for more than $20K off of sticker BRAND NEW in October 2016. I looked at RC Fs in the same time frame and they were advertising fire sale pricing to move the dust collectors off the showroom floor. This is nothing new for Toyota. The MkIV Supras in 1998 were sitting on the showroom floor over 12 months on average before sale. Only the Fast and the Furious salvaged the resale value of the MkIV Supra - I bought mine in January 1997 with 32k miles on it for $28,500. Because of Fn'F, I can sell it today for more than that, but without that movie, it was just another Japanese sports car (a la RX-7, 3000 VR4) depreciating like a rock in a deep pool.

No one would be happier than I if Toyota could figure out how to successfully market the brilliant sports cars they produce. NO ONE. But my observations over the last 30 some odd years tell me they just don't get the enthusiast market, and will ALWAYS default to the "safe n' sane" typical buyer who values reliability above all else.

Surely I could be wrong. But I don't think I am...Toyota doesn't really care about winning the hearts and minds of enthusiasts. One only needs to look at how hard it is to modify the OEM ECM for concrete evidence when ALL the other manufacturers turn a blind eye to aftermarket manipulation of their engine management.

LRCSALES

iTrader: (1)

I hear ya. Maybe im just perturbed that the F line isnt as popular or commands a sane fair price. It just trashes our resale values when they offer the 10th for something above 10k off. as well as i just dont understand making a "safe n' sane". Ive been working in the auto industry for the last 20 years. and an enthusiast for longer. And your last sentence is spot on maybe this is my last Toyota to modify.

GunnyFitz

Very well spoken Lobux !!!
Couldn't agree more with the potential success they would have if they truly hit the market correctly within the F Series. My guess on making the ECU so damn restrictive is all based on "Liability Factors" if you ask me. Must admit, I've never read all the fine print on my RCF but Im willing to bet there is some sort of Hold Harmless legality waiver / clause included in there!

Frisco

Maybe Lexus could offer a package like Corvettes used to offer. I had a Z52 Vette instead of a Z51. It was all the same package as the Z71 but with softer springs. It would then satisfy the sport/track crowd and the Sport/Luxury crowd.
An old article but explains it.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ension-page-2/

LRCSALES

iTrader: (1)

agreed just feel like this track edition isnt hardcore enough or at all.

CAHWY128

Great points above. I am not sure manufacturers care what people think. I was a sales manager for Dodge Chrysler Jeep dealer and we also had a Kia dealer. I worked at both dealers. One day KIA sent us a design team for there new cars to ask what the people who sold the cars thought. We had just come out of the 2008 recession. I had many ideas about KiA's and how to sell them. But basically I told them keep prices down and keep the low priced end of the market. We were selling tons of cheap KIA's. It was a great car line for us. By the time I retired KIA's had grown fancy and way more expensive. They would then complain to us that we were not selling enough KIA's. We were selling half as many KIA's. I told the rep from KIA you can walk across the street from our showroom and buy an Accord or a Camry for the same price as an Optima and personally I would rather own an Accord for the same price. Now Kia is trying to build really high end cars.

I am sure the KIA design team thought we were idiots and was basically pissed they were forced to listen to us. That was my take away..lol.

I think the RCF is an amazing performance car that can still be driven everyday. These auto journalist get out of a brand new Mclaren and then drive an RCF and of course they are biased. They don't have to drive the car for more than a day or two. They don't have to pay for it or fix it when it breaks. They just show up give a quick opinion and then off to the next car. I am betting they trash the Track edition, but we will see. I like the track addition except for the giant wing.