jafsport

Thanks. Heres another question. Will the dealer give you your old pads back once they replace them? I rather keep the old ones since they got plenty of life on them rather than having them tossed.

flowrider

iTrader: (9)

^^^^In a word - NO! In order for the dealer to be reimbursed by Lexus the old pads need to be returned to Lexus Corp. This is done to prevent folks from gaming the system.

Lou

Koreatown

Just replaced the pads a month ago and the sound just came back I think it’s because the rotors were used and they just inserted a new pad. The sound will eventually come back. Is there anyway I can ask my service advisor about this and have them help?

it would squeal when slowly breaking from 20-0mph

flowrider

iTrader: (9)

^^^^What kind of pads did your service provider install? Was grease used in the installation?

Have you tried to bed-in your new pads? Used or new rotors doesn't matter as long the your rotors were above the minimum thickness spec. But, it's important to get a layer of pad material on the rotor.

Lou

konichiwa3

Correct and I couldn't have stated it any better when you base this on volume of material.

Clear evidence MX72 rely heavily on adhesion forces rather than abrasion to create braking force. The brake pad is purposely designed to constantly shed and adhere it's own material on to the rotors creating braking forces between the deposited material on the rotor and the brake pad itself. This is how brake dust is reduced.

Drawbacks of pads that rely heavily on adhesion; too much heat and braking efficiency drops faster as most of the adhered material struggles to handle the extra energy; a softer feel which impacts modulation.

MX72 are also using a higher content of ceramic than metal to mitigate noise, one major reason they are pretty expensive. However, don't confuse high price with performance.

Given what Endless were trying to acheive with the MX72 this is a very well executed product. All in all though, noise and dust reduction took precedence over performance. Noise reduction and performance are mutually exclusive, they cannot occur in the same space. There is a "give and take" as OldManRCF stated elsewhere on this post.


A higher friction compound utilizing more of abrasion rather than adhesion forces will give you the ability to brake a lot later and deeper with less brake pedal pressure and sweeter modulation, inspiring more confidence with spirited driving.



Good reason why it's usually important to get a brake package such as what "Racing Brake" or "RR Racing" would offer since they will have Rotors that have hardened surfaces to cope better with the more abrasive higher friction brake pads.

As for Lexus OEM the original pads will definitely be harsher on the rotors than the TSB ones. Each individual has to make their own decision on whether they are willing to again sacrifice performance for rotor life.


Without a stopwatch and high levels of controls put into place this is purely subjective and could easily be prone to confirmation bias.

On the other hand armed with a firm grasp of the physics and mechanics of braking and deductive reasoning one can come to conclusions that are closer to reality in the absence of measurement.

Davew77,your points of view are greatly appreciated and thank you, it has lent to a much more robust discussion.

sensai

I'm going to keep the little squeak for the bite. I hardly hear it so yeah...

46750

Very interesting discussion here...

I'm torn on this issue, but if I am being honest with myself, I don't track the car and I spend way more time, money, and energy trying to keep my car and it's damn 20 spoke wheels clean (the plight of being a detailer). I get on it from time to time, but never enough where I've ever remotely been worried about the brakes experiencing any fade.

So, if I'm going to spend the money, I'd love to hear opinions on which pad offers the following two characteristics:

1.) Lowest brake/rotor dust
2.) Least decrease in performance (or any improvement?)

Davew77

Just for reference, over the weekend I was playing on the highway with someone. Doing some accelerating and braking in traffic conditions. So my brakes were certainly warm. I had to nearly lock them up at 140 mph because someone jumped out in front of me.

I can't see how anyone could possibly need more braking power than that on the street. I don't believe the MX72 pads are much different than the OEM pads in regards to braking power. I don't really care what people believe. These pads are fine for me. They perform like I want and I get very little dust and squeaks from them. I will continue using them.

It doesn't matter to me what people believe. If they believe they really need the OEM pads and they want to deal with the side effects, that is their call. Driver confidence is important. I'm much happier with my RC F now after 3 years of ownership. If people want to buy into the concept that living with dust and squeaks is part of owning a performance car, more power to them.