05RollaXRS

Thanks. Yes, I was very skeptical of that choice especially with spacers on. I was thinking 255/295 initially. I am noticing the same thing you just said that the straight-on feel actually feels a bit softer than the Pilot Super Sport, which had become like a brick when I disposed of them. It could also be because they are brand new and I need to drive it more to break them in. However, once you put lock in the steering, I agree the turn is very sharp from my initial impressions. Feels much sharper than the Pilot Super Sport, which load the steering up initial before responding. On the flip side, I feel as the initial turn in is so much sharper, I don't feel the steering load up on initial lock as the outer sidewalls respond faster through less flex. The OEM PSS had a bit of flex on initial lock which translated to some steering load up/feel.

However, those are just after driving only 30 - 40 KM. I need to drive it more to understand these tires and also to break them in. One thing I am noticing immediately, is the these are so much quieter than my worn out PSS and the grip levels is off the chart. While my rear PSS slid everywhere with sudden throttle or steering input, these tires seem to be sticking live Velcro.

05RollaXRS

When I created this thread, I was going through the process of learning and figuring out what I wanted for my next tires. It came down to between Cup 2 and PS4S-XL tires. I decided to get the PS4S XL tires. My goal was to create a thread so that other people can learn and understand while I was going through it. Now that I actually have the tires on and have driven about 60 - 70 miles on them, I have some good insight and initial impressions of these tires.

I am sharing these yet again so that other people who are on the fence about these tires can make up their minds based on my impressions. These are only initial impressions after driving for about 50 miles or so. As the tires are breaking in, I think they are going to change quite a bit and I will probably write another review after 1000 or 1500 miles by the end of summer.

Pricing: All in with installation/balancing, taxes they cost me $1700 CAD with the $100 Michelin rebate. It also includes the road hazard warranty in case a tire is beyond repair, they will replace it under warranty. Yes, they are on the expensive side, but Michelin has so many qualities that other tires cannot offer all in the same package. The quality is incredible so much so that there was no balancing needed as the tires came perfectly balanced so no need for corner weights on the wheels.

Road noise: Coming from OEM Michelin Pilot Super Sport with about 30% tread left, these tires are super quiet cruising on smooth surfaces. The PSS were loud cruising on smooth surfaces. A big pleasant surprise as to how quiet they are as they are new as well. Will see how they change as I put miles on them. Initial impressions of noise is great. Under hard acceleration, I hear more of the exhaust/intake noise rather than the deafening roar from the road at higher speeds.

Traction: Holy traction! These tires stick like Velcro. Coming from my PSS that were around 3 mm or so, after getting a bit heat in them, they really stick hard and even with nearly 500 HP, sudden acceleration or turning fast does not make them lose traction. In sport+ mode, as you tap the very sensitive throttle they will apply all of the power directly to the wheels/tires. There is no squirming or tail going sideways with some yaw. In the turns, I feel a big difference in how much traction the front tires have. I don't get that feel of being on the raggedy edge on the front while pushing through long turns. The front sticks very hard. Again, as they are breaking in, I am hoping it will get even better. My initial impressions are very positive with the traction.

Aesthetics: Very nice looking tires. I put a picture above. They have the "velvet look" on the sidewalls. The shoulder blocks seem very big and aggressive. I read somewhere the outer and inner shoulder design has a lot of similarities with the previous generation Cup 2 tires. I would believe that as they look very aggressive.

Handling: Going further with the traction comment above, the handling seems great even while the tires are breaking in. Subjectively, they don't seem to feel more aggressive in the handling department than the previous Pilot Super Sports. The reason why I say that, they inspire just as much confidence as the previous Pilot Super Sports did. However, once you are in the turn they seem to stick really hard where the PSS would start to give out especially in long turns. These tires offer a ton of grip. I tossed the car hard into a 90 degree turn in 2nd gear. Mid corner, I pointed the nose in to make the turn tighter and the nose followed immediately. Where my worn out PSS would fail, these tires shine as they simply give a very strong sense of security in the handling department. As the tires break in, I will see how that changes.

Steering feel/heaviness: Now, this was one of the biggest gripes I had with the PSS being standard load. My hope was the Pilot Sport 4S with the extra load rating will make the sidewall flex minimal/irrelevant. How did that translate in reality? It is very interesting that while driving straight, these brand new Sport 4S feel a bit softer than my previous worn out PSS SL tires. It could be because of the wear difference, but the harshness I talked about with previous PSS at 39F/41R tire pressure seems to be no longer an issue with the Pilot Sport 4S. It drives very firm and tracks very straight, but does not feel overly stiff like it did with my previous Super Sport.

However, once I start applying lock into the steering, things change completely. While the Pilot Super Sport would telegraph loading of the outer wheel progressively through the steering as the weight shifted to the outer wall, these tires go straight in the direction I point the steering in. It is because the sidewalls are stiffer so that weight transfer to the sidewalls is not perceptible anymore. I could see that as being far more confidence inspiring going hard through a turn as it will turn the nose in before the outer sidewall accepts any load resulting in deformation (and hence any understeer). Before that loading of the outer wheel translated to more progressive heft/heaviness in the steering as I applied more and more lock through the turn. The steering would get heavier and heavier. Now with the PS4S, the steering actually feels much lighter through the whole regime of applying lock through the turn. In the fast turns, that is a big blessing as the front end through long turns adjusts very easily. In the slow turns, I liked the old progressive heaviness of the steering as you were turning.. In the fast turns, hands down the faster initial response and lighter steering through the turn allowing micro adjustments more easily feels great. Overall, I think I like the steering feel of the PS4S more despite translating to lighter steering feel due to the stiffer sidewalls. Some people really like the front end to feel very light via the steering then the PS4S are the best tires for that. I believe that heavy steering feel with the OEM PSS is what some people don't prefer. I personally liked it, but I appreciate the sharper/quicker response of the PS4S more albeit with a lighter steering feel. Bottom line, if you want the steering/front end to feel much lighter through the turn then these tires will do exactly that.

Road feel: Road feel is basically the same as before with the Pilot Super Sport. Both tires don't telegraph loads of road feel into the steering. Michelin wants to keep the refinment in there as well, which is why I believe the road feel is muffled quite a bit. The older PSS made steering progressively loaded up heavier through the turns due to the softer sidewalls. PS4S with the XL stiff sidewalls translates to lighter steering effort through the turn. When getting close to the limit of adhesion on the front, I am not sure in either case as to how much more traction I have left when the car is getting very twitchy in 2nd gear through the turn at 6700 - 6800 rpm. Maybe, as I put more miles, they will start to telegraph more feel at the limit, but we will see.

Ride quality/harshness: While the previous tires were at the end of their life and the ride quality became quite harsh at 41R/39F tire pressure unless it was very warm, the new tires at the same 41R/39F tire pressure absorb the bumps and imperfections with a lot more poise. The PS4S have stiff sidewalls and it is apparent in the turns very easily compared to the OEM PSS, but in a straight line the PS4S actually feel a bit softer than the PSS. It could be because of the wear difference, but initially the PS4S feel more civilized over the imperfections than my worn out PSS were, which sometimes would feel bone crunching. The PS4S are still very firm, but not harsh. The ride quality is great with them. Once you get fast and go over a bumpy patch, the PS4S will still make you feel all of those bumps, but cruising at highway speeds the PS4S definitely are much more civilized than my previous worn out PSS. Will see how that changes over time.

All in all, I am very happy with my purchase. These tires are very new and I am sure they will get more and more aggressive as they break in. Hope this helps if anyone is considering these tires. Cheers

05RollaXRS

I have driven the car for a few hundred miles with the new Michelin Pilot Sport 4S and all I have to say is wow! These tires are simply amazing. So many things I did not like about the Michelin Pilot Super Sport (RCF-Spec) have been addressed here. The tires feel a lot more firm than the PSS on the RCF without feeling harsh. I believe it is because of the XL sidewall reinforcements on the MPS4S. That was the reason why I did not go with the 2020 RCF spec MPS4S because they were SL like the PSS on the 2015 - 2019 RCF.

The tires feel very firm and definitely more so than the OEM PSS were under transitions when I had a lot of tread on them, but don't feel harsh and bumpy unless you go over some crappy patches. Michelin has done an amazing job for the sidewalls to be so stiff while the tire still feels on the softer side. I hated the PSS having to get squishy on a downhill-turning braking.

Today, I went through a very long downhill fly-over exit turn that was quite flat with little banking. I went into the turn way too fast downhill (3rd gear and around 95 mph). I pulled the steering to the right and the nose immediately to the right and I was carrying so much speed into the turn once I entered, I quickly tapped the brake once the car started turning downhill and then got back on the throttle once chassis stabilized. The tires held grip very well despite carrying a lot speed through the turn. Most of all, despite downhill and sudden transition to the front wheels due to brake tap, I got zero pitch/dive to the front, which was my gripe with the OEM PSS. I could accelerate all the way to the exit I felt zero dive and roll. There is zero perceptible roll or pitch in turns or under acceleration/braking. These tires really work so well with the OEM suspension/chassis. The extra load reinforcement work very well with the extra weight of the car by adding the support the OEM tires did not provide while maximizing the effect of the chassis rigidity. Despite braking after entering a downhill turn, I felt no pitch/dive at all. The net effect is a very responsive and neutral balance through turns and under acceleration/braking. I have been using 42 PSI Rear and 39 PSI front. These tires are matched so well to the RCF chassis/suspension and are designed to handle much heavier load than what the RCF is transferring in the corners and laterally.

Anyway, I have not driven the PS4S SL for the 2020 RCF, but these MPS4S-XL with the high load rating sidewalls/inner sidewalls are really matched perfectly to the RCF for spirited driving without being harsh. I think it is a combination of soft compound in the middle section of the tires with high-load rated reinforced sidewalls for rigidity under high cornering loads in order to avoid deformation and flex. Highly recommend them.

BossMoss

Thank you very much for these detailed posts. I'm sure a lot of us will find this quite useful in the future.

05RollaXRS

You are welcome. That is what my point was to share my experiences. These tires are unbelievable. They make the RCF such a better driver's car compared to the OEM RCF-Spec Pilot Super Sport. I have never been able to break them loose so far in turns or on the straights. Also, the make the car feel like it is on rails. That tells you how sticky these are.

BossMoss

Your experience has convinced me to try them. I'm close to needing new shoes, so probably by fall.

05RollaXRS

Yeah man, buy these tires. There are no better tires for the RCF than these. I put the part numbers up there so that people can buy this exact version. They might cost more, but the cost is justified in how these tires feel all-around.\

RaulTX

PS4S's are outstanding street tires. However, although certainly an improvement over the OEM PSS's, they don't handle frequent track use very well. After almost two years with the PS4S's, I finally switched to Yokohama AD08R's. So far, the Yokohama's seem like a better option (e.g., better grip, more consistency, stiffer sidewalls) if your street:track ratio is heavy on the track side. I could have tried the Cup 2's, but I was not ready for the significant trade-off in wet traction. But if your rarely track your F, I wholeheartedly agree that PS4S's are the way to go.

05RollaXRS

Agreed, Raul. The AD08R are closer to slick racing tires while PS4S tires are street tires that can be driven on the track and for spirited driving. I agree, they would not hold up well on repeated heavy track use. Street driving is pretty much what I do with the RCF. Just some spirited driving here and there. It was all about the "feel" for me. I did not like the squishiness of the Super Sport (they got really stiff at the end of the lifecycle, but had no grip at all). These seem to do a perfect job. Like I said above, there is no perceptible roll/pitch/dive with these tires. Same speed bump outside my home where I used to land with a slight dive with the Super Sport, these tires land with a rock solid feel. They seem to be getting better and better as I am putting more miles on them. Cheers!

cvt

I got more than 20k miles on my PS4s on my ISF. On a staggered set up and not being able to rotate tires...that’s pretty good longevity for the type of tire it is. Best street tires I have ever owned on any car I’ve owned as far as wet and dry traction, noise, longevity, and noise...and I’ve had Pilot super sports, RE050s, NT05s, S-04s, Conti Extreme Contacts, etc.

RaulTX

Interesting read:

https://motoiq.com/not-all-michelin-...ated-the-same/

flowrider

iTrader: (9)

^^^^The Cup 2 is not the PS4S.

Lou

05RollaXRS

It is a great read nonetheless as it goes generally in theory of design in tire construction.

Yri

I agree 100%. The Yokohama tires are more even tread across the tire, and with stiffer sidewalls, make them way better track tires than the PSS or PS4S. I suppose you tracked them, so if you could, maybe you could expand a little bit on the AD08Rs (how well the tires deal with track abuse, how well they hold up temperature wise, etc).

RaulTX

My experience with the Yokohama's is very limited compared to the PS4S's. In nearly two years, I did 27 track days on six sets of PS4S fronts and two sets of PS4S rears. They were great, versatile tires, but the shoulders did not hold up well at the track, despite my car having 2.5 degrees of negative camber all around (aftermarket control arms) and coilover suspension. I only have one track day on the AD08R's so far, so the jury's still out, but I could clearly notice better grip (1.3 seconds faster on a dry 1.7-mile course) that lasted longer into every track session, and more even wear without any indication at all of excessive roll-over. The AD08R's are mildly louder and harsher on the street, and I have yet to try them on a wet road/track. In the end, it will come down to how many track days I can get out of the Yokohama's compared to the Michelin's…