Invidia exhaust throwing a CEL?
05-06-23, 08:29 AM
#31
Invidia leaks because they’re built with incorrect flanges. Nothing more, nothing less.
FWIW the original owner of my car had an Invidia installed the first week and it threw a CEL…the first week. It was installed with OE gaskets. I tried every gasket combination imaginable and it still threw CEL’s. F-that. Bought an original exhaust and haven’t thrown a code since.
Any vendor that sells Invidia is doing the community a dis-service. The community needs to hold the vendors who sell this crap and Invidia themselves accountable.
FWIW the original owner of my car had an Invidia installed the first week and it threw a CEL…the first week. It was installed with OE gaskets. I tried every gasket combination imaginable and it still threw CEL’s. F-that. Bought an original exhaust and haven’t thrown a code since.
Any vendor that sells Invidia is doing the community a dis-service. The community needs to hold the vendors who sell this crap and Invidia themselves accountable.
Lost actually tracks his car regularly and he he is using Grimmspeed gaskets and he hasn't posted anything in regards to anything blowing out or CEL. And from the pics/track day photos he babying the car, which should be a good indication of how well the grimmspeed gaskets hold up to "track" driving and not just a weekend warrior or daily driving...etc.
Perhaps the vendors that are selling the exhauast could indicate to Invidia that the incorrect flange is used and that they might make a recommendation to address it? I don't have a clue what that would cost or involve changing tooling or anything of that nature. Worst case senario one could take it to an exhaust shop and they could easily cut the flanges off and mate it up using the proper stuff or if someone found a cheap mid pipe and cut off the flanges to utilize the OEM crush gasket would be best.
Invidia is not the only manufacture that doesn't utilize the crush gasket. I know Apexi doesn't have the recessed area for the oem crush gasket. Boral did, Tom's does..etc.
For $1300 for an entire catback exhaust I really can't complain. It sounds good, looks good, and as long as the gasket issues is taken care of first there really shouldn't be issues. I might be just used to the subie world where DB gasket issues are a thing and would happen often but if I was paying $3500 for a exhaust and had this problem I would be annoyed AF. But an entire catback exhaust that is less than half of what Tom's axle back or GThaus charges is something I can live with if there are little quirks. I might change my tune if I constantly got CEL's and it wouldn't go away. At that point I'd figure out if cutting the flanges off were the way to go or to change out the exhaust for something that costs twice as much. I'm happy with the sound the invidia makes and I was never looking for "louder is better" with this car. I want the 8cylinder to be heard but not in a way that people are saying G damn that's too loud...lol
-Nigel
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MCB1970 (05-08-23)
05-06-23, 09:37 AM
#32
Well my neighbors are saying GD---that is loud. I agree Nigel with everything you're saying. I'd be really happy if the CEL doesn't come back. Time will tell on that. But once I get past that I'll think about the noise levels. My problem is I went from a 1998 SC400 which is pretty quiet. Not so with the RC F with Invidia's system.
The picture you're showign is the adaptor from Grimms for their Subaru to a 3" (unspecified which system) pipe. But I think a Lexus exhaust cone type exhaust gasket the might work with Grimms Subaru flange adaptor. Unfortuantely I left that with the lexus dealer , who went and used it with the 3" grimms gaskets. No CEL's yet with that fix. Anyway I went and ordered those from Grimms as I figured I'd need a pair of 3" replacemnt gaskets if (when) Lexus' fix fails. If it doesn't then we'll have another fix.
DR4
The picture you're showign is the adaptor from Grimms for their Subaru to a 3" (unspecified which system) pipe. But I think a Lexus exhaust cone type exhaust gasket the might work with Grimms Subaru flange adaptor. Unfortuantely I left that with the lexus dealer , who went and used it with the 3" grimms gaskets. No CEL's yet with that fix. Anyway I went and ordered those from Grimms as I figured I'd need a pair of 3" replacemnt gaskets if (when) Lexus' fix fails. If it doesn't then we'll have another fix.
DR4
05-06-23, 10:29 AM
#33
Lexus Test Driver
Invidia and loud? No way. It is one of the tamest exhausts around. You have some seriously picky neighbors. I start it up in my underground parking garage and it does catch everyone's attention around, but they are usually positive comments. Maybe, in a cold start for like 10 seconds, but then it goes quiet after that.
05-06-23, 10:45 AM
#34
Well "son" you don't live in a 55+ community
. Loud to me was my P-51 on the ramp warming up. The v-12 Merlin's have a sweet sound. But you are correct in one aspect once the RC F's burbling ends after a few seconds it's not to bad. It's the driving on the turnpike that's pretty loud v the sc400. But again ~500 hp v ~300 on the sc400, you'd expect some noise. I'd still like ot a little quieter driving distances.
Here's a question back at you...you're the person that's used the Grimm's 3" gaskets with the Invidia system and driven lots of miles without the recurring CEL problem?
DR4
. Loud to me was my P-51 on the ramp warming up. The v-12 Merlin's have a sweet sound. But you are correct in one aspect once the RC F's burbling ends after a few seconds it's not to bad. It's the driving on the turnpike that's pretty loud v the sc400. But again ~500 hp v ~300 on the sc400, you'd expect some noise. I'd still like ot a little quieter driving distances.Here's a question back at you...you're the person that's used the Grimm's 3" gaskets with the Invidia system and driven lots of miles without the recurring CEL problem?
DR4
05-06-23, 11:05 AM
#35
Lexus Test Driver
Well "son" you don't live in a 55+ community. Loud to me was my P-51 on the ramp warming up. The v-12 Merlin's have a sweet sound. But you are correct in one aspect once the RC F's burbling ends after a few seconds it's not to bad. It's the driving on the turnpike that's pretty loud v the sc400. But again ~500 hp v ~300 on the sc400, you'd expect some noise. I'd still like ot a little quieter driving distances.
Here's a question back at you...you're the person that's used the Grimm's 3" gaskets with the Invidia system and driven lots of miles without the recurring CEL problem?
DR4
. Loud to me was my P-51 on the ramp warming up. The v-12 Merlin's have a sweet sound. But you are correct in one aspect once the RC F's burbling ends after a few seconds it's not to bad. It's the driving on the turnpike that's pretty loud v the sc400. But again ~500 hp v ~300 on the sc400, you'd expect some noise. I'd still like ot a little quieter driving distances.Here's a question back at you...you're the person that's used the Grimm's 3" gaskets with the Invidia system and driven lots of miles without the recurring CEL problem?
DR4
05-06-23, 11:18 AM
#36
Okay. Appreciate the quick reply. I'll keep my fingers crossed and if this "Combo" fix the dealer did holds, then I'll live with the noise levels. I understand the noise thing is solely a function of age. Not sure how old you are but when I bought my first used car, a '54 Ford convertible, in '64 (that's 1964 :>), the first thing I did was add "Cherry Bomb" mufflers which really was just an enlarged pipe with a few baffles. That system was so loud you're ears rang for several minutes after you shut it down.
DR4
DR4
05-06-23, 02:24 PM
#37
Okay. Appreciate the quick reply. I'll keep my fingers crossed and if this "Combo" fix the dealer did holds, then I'll live with the noise levels. I understand the noise thing is solely a function of age. Not sure how old you are but when I bought my first used car, a '54 Ford convertible, in '64 (that's 1964 :>
, the first thing I did was add "Cherry Bomb" mufflers which really was just an enlarged pipe with a few baffles. That system was so loud you're ears rang for several minutes after you shut it down.
DR4
, the first thing I did was add "Cherry Bomb" mufflers which really was just an enlarged pipe with a few baffles. That system was so loud you're ears rang for several minutes after you shut it down.DR4
1- mid pipe to muffler - oem donut gaskets were not installed by the shop. I don’t think this caused the CEL but was nice to fix
2- third party thicker gasket didnt fit to GT Haus mid pipe -front side (at least on my case). I purchase two new OEM gaskets and sealant that Nigel posted in this forum. New gaskets and good amount of sealant solved my issue.
it is a little rabbit hole process- dealer doesn’t want to touch or fix since it is aftermarket, some shops recommend adding an extender to bypass reader, get a new reader, got a simulator to fake the ecu…etc.
bottom line is even with sealant OEM gaskets are very flinky and if you do the initial install right and use sealant it will take care of the CEL…$20 stuff caused me quite a bit headache.
good luck!
05-07-23, 08:51 AM
#39
Lexus Test Driver
Yeah, RR Racing has a thread on it with dynos with each bolt-on added. It is called something like 'dyno thrashing'. It was 16 whp (about 19 HP to the crank). They even determined, RCF is very sensitive to fuel quality as well
05-07-23, 04:55 PM
#41
An exhaust doesn't add any "crank horespower'. The engine makes the same amount of power, just some exhausts are more efficient than others (i.e there is less loss of power from one exhaust to another). When a manufacture gives the crank horsepower number all engine power accessories are removed (sometimes even the water pump).
05-07-23, 06:31 PM
#42
Lexus Test Driver
An exhaust doesn't add any "crank horespower'. The engine makes the same amount of power, just some exhausts are more efficient than others (i.e there is less loss of power from one exhaust to another). When a manufacture gives the crank horsepower number all engine power accessories are removed (sometimes even the water pump).
I did Dragy GPS runs in high altitude/cr*ppy density altitude last year. Both 60 - 130 mph and 1/4 mile at 4000 feet density altitude. My best 60 - 130 mph was 11.0 seconds and the best 1/4 mile was 12.5 seconds @ 115 mph. If you correct that for sea level DA, it works out to about 11.9 seconds @ 120 mph according to DragTimes calculator. My best 60 foot was 2.09 seconds. I did something like 30 runs with the worst being a 12.9 seconds. That is with intake/exhaust/RR race tune and PS4S XL tires as the relevant mods. Stock headers. If I had (or wanted to do headers, but would be too noisy for my wife/kids), it would really put me deep in the low-12s I think at 4000 feet DA. However, I will try to achieve low-12s at 4000 feet DA with the Harmonic damper pulley waiting to be installed.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 05-07-23 at 06:42 PM.
05-08-23, 06:32 AM
#43
Thanks for the backgound. I always thought a lower restictive exhause, such as invidia's woul dadd a few more HP and/or make the 0 to 60 times slightly quicker. But Lexus designs their cars really well so there might be no affect at all.
DR4
DR4
05-08-23, 07:35 AM
#44
Most of the "freed" up power comes from removing the secondary cat.
05-08-23, 08:26 AM
#45
Agreed they choose to use the wrong flange. That part is annoying for sure. Original owner using OE gaskets was the problem when he installed the Invidia. That we know for sure is a problem. Sucks you couldn't get any gaskets to work in your setup. You are definitely the smaller percentage that couldn't get a CEL fixed by using gaskets.
Lost actually tracks his car regularly and he he is using Grimmspeed gaskets and he hasn't posted anything in regards to anything blowing out or CEL. And from the pics/track day photos he babying the car, which should be a good indication of how well the grimmspeed gaskets hold up to "track" driving and not just a weekend warrior or daily driving...etc.
Perhaps the vendors that are selling the exhauast could indicate to Invidia that the incorrect flange is used and that they might make a recommendation to address it? I don't have a clue what that would cost or involve changing tooling or anything of that nature. Worst case senario one could take it to an exhaust shop and they could easily cut the flanges off and mate it up using the proper stuff or if someone found a cheap mid pipe and cut off the flanges to utilize the OEM crush gasket would be best.
Invidia is not the only manufacture that doesn't utilize the crush gasket. I know Apexi doesn't have the recessed area for the oem crush gasket. Boral did, Tom's does..etc.
For $1300 for an entire catback exhaust I really can't complain. It sounds good, looks good, and as long as the gasket issues is taken care of first there really shouldn't be issues. I might be just used to the subie world where DB gasket issues are a thing and would happen often but if I was paying $3500 for a exhaust and had this problem I would be annoyed AF. But an entire catback exhaust that is less than half of what Tom's axle back or GThaus charges is something I can live with if there are little quirks. I might change my tune if I constantly got CEL's and it wouldn't go away. At that point I'd figure out if cutting the flanges off were the way to go or to change out the exhaust for something that costs twice as much. I'm happy with the sound the invidia makes and I was never looking for "louder is better" with this car. I want the 8cylinder to be heard but not in a way that people are saying G damn that's too loud...lol
-Nigel
Lost actually tracks his car regularly and he he is using Grimmspeed gaskets and he hasn't posted anything in regards to anything blowing out or CEL. And from the pics/track day photos he babying the car, which should be a good indication of how well the grimmspeed gaskets hold up to "track" driving and not just a weekend warrior or daily driving...etc.
Perhaps the vendors that are selling the exhauast could indicate to Invidia that the incorrect flange is used and that they might make a recommendation to address it? I don't have a clue what that would cost or involve changing tooling or anything of that nature. Worst case senario one could take it to an exhaust shop and they could easily cut the flanges off and mate it up using the proper stuff or if someone found a cheap mid pipe and cut off the flanges to utilize the OEM crush gasket would be best.
Invidia is not the only manufacture that doesn't utilize the crush gasket. I know Apexi doesn't have the recessed area for the oem crush gasket. Boral did, Tom's does..etc.
For $1300 for an entire catback exhaust I really can't complain. It sounds good, looks good, and as long as the gasket issues is taken care of first there really shouldn't be issues. I might be just used to the subie world where DB gasket issues are a thing and would happen often but if I was paying $3500 for a exhaust and had this problem I would be annoyed AF. But an entire catback exhaust that is less than half of what Tom's axle back or GThaus charges is something I can live with if there are little quirks. I might change my tune if I constantly got CEL's and it wouldn't go away. At that point I'd figure out if cutting the flanges off were the way to go or to change out the exhaust for something that costs twice as much. I'm happy with the sound the invidia makes and I was never looking for "louder is better" with this car. I want the 8cylinder to be heard but not in a way that people are saying G damn that's too loud...lol
-Nigel