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Total hogwash. Google lance wolrab break-in and you'll see how I drove my IS F and GS F off the lot. No, you don't just hammer the gas, but you should be at full throttle as quickly as possible after progressive thermal cycling to get there. Every engine I built to win races and championships got broken in very quickly. This silly notion that going easy will result in good ring and valve sealing is just worthless noise.
Well then... thats interesting to say the least. I was taught that steadily breaking in an engine would be more beneficial... Guess that was wrong. I guess that easing in the break in period really doesn't have improvements over the more... aggressive approach. So then, what would you say might be a possible cause to the PCV issue?
EDIT: I think the reason why I believe the more easy approach is better is that if you abuse an engine too early on, you get hotspots in your cylinder. Keep in mind, babying a car is unnecessary, neither easy or hard break ins are correct as far as I'm concerned, you need varying RPMS in order to properly break in an engine. I believe you should consider the break in period as the first 300-500 miles... (on a road car engine). It kind of annoys me when some motorcycle guys just run their engines all the way up to redline as soon as they get the bike... I know break in periods back in the 60's and 70's were more crucial, but I still think they're applicable to modern engines (in slightly less amounts, theres no need to do 1-2k miles for break in anymore)
The more "gentle" approach is the worst thing you can do if you want the rings to seal. They need high pressure against the cylinder walls to seal. The longer you wait to do this, the more glaze will build up on the cylinder walls, and the more blowby the engine will suffer. I followed the factory instructions for my 1993 Celica GTS. It burned a quart of oil every 1000 miles no matter what after this idiotic break-in. Never, ever, again. Hot spots on the cylinder walls just tells me you are not well versed in how engines manage heat. If there are EVER hot spots, it's a disaster, and the cooling system needs to be revisited. There's a whole lot more to this, but suffice it to say, you are setting the metal grain in the piston when you break-in the engine. This ensures the piston's complex shape works as intended to provide best support to the ring stack in service at temperature. This is achieved by doing as I described in the posts linked by Google.
There are lots of other considerations for break-in of different components, but engine break-in needs to be swift and sure. Toyota used to have break-in instructions for their Formula Atlantic engines posted online. They mirror my instructions.
The more "gentle" approach is the worst thing you can do if you want the rings to seal. They need high pressure against the cylinder walls to seal. The longer you wait to do this, the more glaze will build up on the cylinder walls, and the more blowby the engine will suffer. I followed the factory instructions for my 1993 Celica GTS. It burned a quart of oil every 1000 miles no matter what after this idiotic break-in. Never, ever, again. Hot spots on the cylinder walls just tells me you are not well versed in how engines manage heat. If there are EVER hot spots, it's a disaster, and the cooling system needs to be revisited. There's a whole lot more to this, but suffice it to say, you are setting the metal grain in the piston when you break-in the engine. This ensures the piston's complex shape works as intended to provide best support to the ring stack in service at temperature. This is achieved by doing as I described in the posts linked by Google.
There are lots of other considerations for break-in of different components, but engine break-in needs to be swift and sure. Toyota used to have break-in instructions for their Formula Atlantic engines posted online. They mirror my instructions.
So in other words, not too hard and not too gentle, like a mix of both? This is the post I found for the Formula Atlantic break-in procedure https://www.oocities.org/motorcity/7177/trdbreakin.html.
I'm not sure thats the one that you're talking about, but I see that the procedure in that article looks very reasonable, and it most likely probably provides the best results. Its not too long, not too gentle, yet not too hard. If this is the break-in procedure you're talking about, then yes, I agree with it 100%. Thank you for correcting me about 'gentle' break ins.
No. That's not what they said years ago when they were supporting race teams. There were zero street break-in instructions. All dyno, all varying load, none of this stupid steady state running. Steady state kills engines just like any easy break-in method. This guy is way better:
No. That's not what they said years ago when they were supporting race teams. There were zero street break-in instructions. All dyno, all varying load, none of this stupid steady state running. Steady state kills engines just like any easy break-in method. This guy is way better:
Alright then... makes sense to me. I still feel like running an engine too hard during the break-in process is bad... like buying an engine then just hopping on the track and beating the crap out of it without any sort of break-in process (even if it was only 200-300 miles)...
I know Engineering Explained tells you to follow the manufacturer's break-in specs... and hes a pretty sound source of information. Based on your experience with your Celica, I'm kinda torn. There's a lot of evidence backing up the manufacturer's approach, and theres some evidence backing up the hard break in approach.
I read that soft break ins do indeed cause your rings not to seal properly. But, in a way, manufacturer's break in specs aren't soft... they're intermediate.
Ok, so I did a little revisiting to this whole issue... something comes to mind now... what if the reason for 'excessive oil consumption' has nothing to do with the PCV OR piston rings, and instead has to do with the amount of oil the dealerships put in. Lexus dealerships have a long history of adding too much oil... and maybe this is the case here.
Well, I finally experienced a glorious cloud of smoke at the track over the weekend doing a HPDE at Summit Point. Good thing was that I was able to replicate the conditions that causes it, so confidence level is fairly high that it was from oil ingestion and not a blown engine.
I didn't get smoke every lap, but when I did it was always at the same corner and no where else. At the end of the long straight, you're hard on the brakes to make a fairly sharp right turn. I was blowing dark smoke (not thick) coming out of turns 1-2 on the short straight up until I let off for turn 3. After turn 3, no more smoke.
What I think is happening is that the hard braking sloshes oil to the front of the engine, then flooring it at that moment causes oil to be sucked up that large hose that goes into the intake at the front of the engine. That hose is where a catch can is usually installed. As I started to get faster track officials blacked flagged me thinking I broke the car. In later sessions I started trying out different brake points (learning trail braking) and was able to lessen amount of smoke.
My friend was there in his ISF and had no issues, was his first time out so wasn't pushing as hard but his RR AOS was full at the end of day two. I went ahead and ordered the AOS and plan on going back to the same track in June. We'll see if it truly helps. This was only my second event but I was averaging 5 seconds faster than my BEST time the first time I went, so definitely getting more comfortable with both the car and my skill. I've never had an issue on the streets or mountain drives, the only way to replicate the issue is really on a track.
Well, I finally experienced a glorious cloud of smoke at the track over the weekend doing a HPDE at Summit Point. Good thing was that I was able to replicate the conditions that causes it, so confidence level is fairly high that it was from oil ingestion and not a blown engine.
I didn't get smoke every lap, but when I did it was always at the same corner and no where else. At the end of the long straight, you're hard on the brakes to make a fairly sharp right turn. I was blowing dark smoke (not thick) coming out of turns 1-2 on the short straight up until I let off for turn 3. After turn 3, no more smoke.
What I think is happening is that the hard braking sloshes oil to the front of the engine, then flooring it at that moment causes oil to be sucked up that large hose that goes into the intake at the front of the engine. That hose is where a catch can is usually installed. As I started to get faster track officials blacked flagged me thinking I broke the car. In later sessions I started trying out different brake points (learning trail braking) and was able to lessen amount of smoke.
My friend was there in his ISF and had no issues, was his first time out so wasn't pushing as hard but his RR AOS was full at the end of day two. I went ahead and ordered the AOS and plan on going back to the same track in June. We'll see if it truly helps. This was only my second event but I was averaging 5 seconds faster than my BEST time the first time I went, so definitely getting more comfortable with both the car and my skill. I've never had an issue on the streets or mountain drives, the only way to replicate the issue is really on a track.
That is interesting, but I would believe oil would cause more of a bluish smoke, and not so much a dark smoke. Dark smoke, from what I've seen, generally indicated the engine is running too rich on fuel. If that smoke was more bluey/dark, then that is definitely oil.
Your observation does make a lot of sense, as hard braking going up to a sharp turn, then getting on the power before the front reaches a stable level (where trail-braking comes in), it would allow for the hose to suck up oil, thanks to the engine vacuum. By trail-braking, the front is reaching a stable level before the throttle is engaged, leaving time for whatever oil is near the hose to go back down to the sump.
That is interesting, but I would believe oil would cause more of a bluish smoke, and not so much a dark smoke. Dark smoke, from what I've seen, generally indicated the engine is running too rich on fuel. If that smoke was more bluey/dark, then that is definitely oil.
Your observation does make a lot of sense, as hard braking going up to a sharp turn, then getting on the power before the front reaches a stable level (where trail-braking comes in), it would allow for the hose to suck up oil, thanks to the engine vacuum. By trail-braking, the front is reaching a stable level before the throttle is engaged, leaving time for whatever oil is near the hose to go back down to the sump.
Let me caveat the smoke color thing to say that I don't really know the differences between the colors of smoke. I just know that it wasn't white like from a smoking tire or blown head gasket, any other smoke is dark to me. If the tune was too rich I figured I'd see it in more than just that spot on the track. I tried to get a video of it, but the session I had my GoPro facing the rearward, I kept getting hung up in traffic then someone broke down so wasn't able to hit that turn hard enough.
Let me caveat the smoke color thing to say that I don't really know the differences between the colors of smoke. I just know that it wasn't white like from a smoking tire or blown head gasket, any other smoke is dark to me. If the tune was too rich I figured I'd see it in more than just that spot on the track. I tried to get a video of it, but the session I had my GoPro facing the rearward, I kept getting hung up in traffic then someone broke down so wasn't able to hit that turn hard enough.
You are right, too rich would likely have an effect anywhere on any sudden burst of acceleration on the track. Judging by the track and the speed telemetry, you did decelerate from 130ish all the way down to 30-40. That is a pretty huge speed decrease in such a short amount of time, so its quite obviously oil being burned.
Went back to the same track over the weekend after installing the RR AOS. Had it a little over a month and it had maybe a few drops when I changed oil last week. Now on the track is a different animal, I was filling that thing up EVERY session! But I no longer was blowing smoke. Was also running about 3 seconds faster, so definitely pushed the car harder. So at least that product works as advertised.
This was after a full day (4 sessions)
Full every session, emptying this became part of the pre-session ritual.
Definitely make sure to have some extra oil! I would suppose on the average circuit where speeds are pretty low, the oil consumption is probably next to nothing, since no major braking. Have you checked your oil level since?
07-09-20, 05:08 AM
If the tune was too rich I figured I'd see it in more than just that spot on the track. I tried to get a video of it, but the session I had my GoPro facing the rearward, I kept getting hung up in traffic then someone broke down so wasn't able to hit that turn hard enough.
