05RollaXRS

I am hoping for input from guys who have installed either one of these. I have said previously, I feel the stock suspension is already something I don't want to touch. It has the balance between streetability and high-performance track driving. However, the only thing in the suspension I see value in is the lower control arm bushings where I think I can gain some value by swapping out for aftermarket lower control arm. The two obvious top choices are RR Racing USRS with 88 on the durometer and the FIGS Engineering SuperPro with 90 on the durometer. I only want slightly stiffer lower control arm bushings so I would end up opting for these street versions rather than the zero-deflection track version with spherical rings as they might be too harsh for what I am looking for. Just 15% stiffer LCA bushing feel should be good enough for what I am looking for. Thanks.

Input would be really appreciated. Though, it is a coin toss, I think RR racing seems to be a slighty better option, which is why I am looking for input from people who

Here are the two options I am considering. I am leaning towards RR Racing since it seems to be the most popular choice for the RCF.

FIGS SuperPro 90 LCA bushing

2006+ IS/GS RC RC-F Front Lower Arm Rear Mount #2 Polyurethane Bushing 90 HIGH PERFORMANCE INSTALLED IN BRACKET (shopfigs.com)

RR Racing Street USRS LCA bushing

Lexus Lower Control Arm (LCA) Bushing (rr-racing.com)

For the ones interested, here is the zero-deflection versions:

FRONT LCA REAR MOUNT PRECISION BEARING TRACK SPEC V2 2006+ 2IS ISF RC RCF GSF (shopfigs.com)

Lexus Lower Control Arm (LCA) Bushings Race Edition (rr-racing.com)

LoSt180

Probably going against the grain here, but do the Figs require periodic re-greasing? I have the RR USRS installed for about a year and a half now and have already had to have them greased once. It's kind of annoying hearing the squeak squeak in a parking garage.

Don't get me wrong, the car handles great. Just with an unlimited monthly car wash subscription, these may be a bit prone to washout of the lube. Starting to think I'd rather have lower maintenance.

05RollaXRS

Great feedback. Definitely, I would also like to see if there are examples of people have had to re-grease especially after a relatively short amount of time?

nigel821

iTrader: (2)

From my understanding all poly bushing will eventually need regreasing... it's the nature of the beast.

With that said I bought Fig's LCA bushings about 3 weeks ago. I made this same question on FB and reading here on CL. I mainly wanted to prevent inner tire wear. Both will achieve this. But both are completely different. One is a progressive bushing while the other is a zero deflection (USRS). I went with Fig's because from everything that I have read and the reviews people clearly stated that it introduced almost no NVH. Which is key for me. I don't want to turn my RCF into anything like my STi which is awesome to drive but you feel and hear everything.

With a zero deflection bushing you are going to get an increase in NVH. A lot of people claim it doesn't or they don't feel anything but I find that extremely hard to believe honestly. You are replacing a rubber bushing with something that is poly/metal... there will be an increase in NVH. I can only imagine what the spherical version of both companies sound/feel like. On the track they'd awesome but I wouldn't run them on the street at all, there would be too much NVH.

I don't nor will I ever track the RCF. So I do not need a track type solution. In fact I would say having track parts on most street cars actually defeats the purpose of certain things the car is meant to be.

Either solution are great honestly. I don't think either makes a bad product by any stretch of the imagination. But for me personally I went with Figs due to all the people loving them. I did find a few people that said they had the RR racing then switch to Fig's and couldn't be happier.. so that was also a push for me. I'll upload a picture of mine later. I'll probably install them once I get my exhaust in so then I'm only under the car once.

Threads that helped me: (this one had the two people that did NOT like the USRS)
RR Racing USRS Install - anyone DIY w/o a lift? - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

Figs or RR Racing LCA bushing? - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

rr racing LCA options ... ultimate or street - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion


-Nigel

05RollaXRS

Thanks Nigel. I believe the one I linked above for RR racing with a durometer rating of 88 does not have zero-deflection. It is the street version while the racing version for RR racing is the one with zero-deflection. I could be wrong, but I think both of the ones I have links in my original post are similar. 90 on the durometer for the SuperPRO and 88 on the durometer for the RR Racing. I agree with your post. The PS4S XL I have had for over 1 year, have been wearing very evenly. I just had them recently checked. I was aiming for a slightly more aggressive setup especially in terms of road feel and stiffness. However, the maintenance aspect of the lower control arm bushing where it requires greasing after a few years, does concern me. Anyway, I really appreciate your input. I agree, the FIGS SuperPRO is a great choice and I have read nothing, but great things about the SuperPRO bushings.

Please do write a review here once you have them installed. I would really like to hear your thoughts on the FIGS SuperPRO 90. Thanks.

TheCatLoaf

I had the USRS road & track on my 3IS350 and they completely transformed the steering and handling. That said, the comment about squeaks is definitely a (likely) possibility.

It partly depends on how they are installed; most notably the positioning of the bushing housings (adjustable during install by the adjustment bolts). This affects the gap between the metal housing and poly body, which can be a primary source of squeak.
That said, you do trade a bit of NVH with any bushing swap to something more firm, and the USRS are no exception.
For me, the benefits were more than worth it - heck, I even removed the crush washers from under the control arm nuts (thread lock is needed if you do this, otherwise the nuts will not stay torqued).
This increased the directness of steering even further, at a small additional NVH cost.

One thing to note - it makes a difference in how evenly the bushings are installed relative to the subframe, ie they should be on the same line left-to-right across the body of the car. This can notably affect how the steering feels, with uneven left/right steering feel and weight being a possible side effect if they are off.

I’m currently planning on swapping the LCA bushings on my RC F, but still looking into the race version. The closed design seems appealing from a squeak perspective, but I’m still trying to find feedback on the NVH over the road & track version.

05RollaXRS

Thanks for your input Catloaf. That is very insightful. I have spoken with my Lexus dealership F specialist. He said he can install it for me. He said he has swapped a lot of RCF bushings into 3IS or 2IS and a couple of ISFs. Though, my concerns regarding squeaking still remains. I definitely would still stick with the street version since I feel I need only slightly more stiffness especially when I go over uneven bumps where there is vagueness, which I dislike. Anyway, I might have to talk with the dealership tech to see if he can reassure me there will be no squeaking. Definitely, want zero squeaking and rattling in my RCF.

nigel821

iTrader: (2)

Yep, no problem! The RR racing street version is still a zero deflection version of their normal (USRS) system, the dur for the bushing is slightly less. But the design is still the same. Mike (figs) posted a while back in one of the links I quoted up above how their design is different. It's a progressive bushing so it will stop "a certain movement" but not another type of movement that the USRS system does.

From what you are looking for it might be the USRS in what you are after. From what I read and was told by everyone Figs are like 90% of what the USRS does minus any added NVH. I still want to retain the Lexus feel if that makes sense. Even though this isn't my daily I probably could have gone the USRS but was fearful of the NVH that it would add. But it's all subjective to the person right... what is loud to some isn't to others. Some people love super loud exhausts on our cars while I couldn't live with that at all. Hence why I am waiting for an Invidia exhaust. I want to "hear it" but not be obnoxiously loud all the time and then end up dreading it. That is what I am trying to avoid with mods to this car. So Figs was the ticket in my case. Plus everything people have mentioned with the Figs is that they don't make noise or squeak like the USRS. The owners of figs bushing were commenting on owning them now for 2-3 years with zero noise.. (but again I think poly bushing require re-greasing no matter what or who makes them)

If I was 10 years younger and had this car I would probably get the USRS. But now looking at my STi and what I have done I am going to be reverting many things that were "track/race/sport" focused to a more daily driver comfort. I like sporty but turning 40 here in a couple months my body just doesn't like certain things. *Off topic, but I ALWAYS loved Jeep wranglers. Thought they were cool looking and wanted one. Finally got into one about 2 weeks ago and the ride was horrible. Noisy, bumpy and just in general awful. I told my wife cross that off the vehicle list, again if I was younger with the doors and top off would be fun. Now I would dread it.

I'll definitely post up a review once I put them on! One thing I will note is when adding the LCA bushings you'd probably want to get an alignment. I've read many people state that they felt the car was fine but then when it got realigned things were off previously from installing them. Which makes sense because you are unbolting suspension parts... so something more than likely is going to get tweaked.. But if you have to re-grease the LCA bushing each year or so, then an alignment is right there again... so that's something to think about.

-Nigel

05RollaXRS

That is very insightful. Really appreciate it. I was paying too much attention to the durometer rating, but yeah it is good to know there is more to it than that. Definitely, great to know as I was not aware. I have watched the SuperPRO video and yes, it does have some movement where the bolt moves about in the polyurethane bushing. I would agree, I don't want any increased NVH either. I did ESS energy motor mounts on my other car many years ago. While it eliminated wheel hop off the line in the FWD and made it feel like it had LSD in the turns, my wife hated the constant buzzing and harshness as a side effect. Especially in a car like the RCF, I don't want to make the same mistake. I am looking forward to reading your review once you have it installed, but yeah alignment is a must after you install it. My plan is to have it aligned by the Lexus dealership right after having it installed.

AlexAviles

All polyurethane bushings squeak. That’s why you have to grease them. I went with the figs because the rrr has a large metal washer that adds more contact area to squeak and the figs look like they have a grease cap or the ends are designed to make less squeaking. I scoured posts and read more people complaining about squeaks from rrr than figgs. I do not want to say that implies anything about performance though. Poly is superior in every way to rubber but the only downside is keeping them lubricated. Keep in mind you will get more squeaks in cold weather climates. I’m excited to see if they really do reduce how numb the front of this car is. If it’s not enough I’ll have to ditch the poor rear suspension setup. I wish they did coil overs in the rear. Does anyone know why they chose the divorced setup? I guess it makes the car much easier to lower because you can just swap out the springs. Hoping mine will come in the next few weeks and I’ll update you on how they are on the rc f.

05RollaXRS

The suspension is awesome stock at least from what I feel in mine. The divorced setup is something that has been used a lot over the years in high performance cars. It was a favorite setup in BMWs. E30, E36 etc. used it. The main advantage of divorced setup is packaging and load/stress on the subframe etc. True coilover does have its advantages, but from what I have read on BMW forums or Nissan Z forums etc., it adds a significant amount of stress on your rear subframe especially if go with stiffer springs since the springs.

I think the bushing will make a big difference in how your steering feels. I think you should consider looking at your tires. Tires play a huge role in improving or degrading steering feel, steering response, braking power, turning load transfer and how the contact patch changes under side-to-side motion etc. Back from swapping tires from winters to summer PSS tires on my other cars, I have seen how the same car could become night/day with everything the same except tires. Once I got the RCF, I hated the OEM PSS right off the bat. They were good touring tire, but their squishy and deforming properties under sudden changing load, was my main gripe. PS4S extra load are miles better than the OEM PSS SL tires. Only downside is, they are stiffer so they ride a little harsher, but nothing uncomfortable and they still drive true/straight (no tramlining).

The reason why I am looking into the LCA bushing is, because of sudden uneven bumps especially while turning. The steering load changes suddenly and you get unpredictable information from the steering. That is the only scenario where I feel stiffer bushing would help. If I am driving over smooth road in a straight line or turning, the PS4S XL pretty much addressed all of my concerns.

Yri

You would be right, a divorced setup more evenly distributes the force between the subframe so in a sense it is better for it. Also, the bushing will change how your steering feels. Imagine the stock bushing as being a sponge. It absorbs force, which means the steering can feel a little bit dull/unpredictable (under sudden movements). Once you make that bushing stiff, it no longer absorbs force and you get the picture.

Also, you'll always testify about how good the PS4S's are, won't you?

brendanf

What did you grease yours with? I have had zero issues with mine squeaking. I didn't use the grease that RR recommends either. I used a generic extreme pressure grease and have had zero issues.

brendanf

I have the RR red bushings (their R&T ones) and honestly there are ZERO complaints. There is a slight noticeable increase in road noise but it is minimal and the trade off is so worth it.

The steering response and handling are so dramatically improved. Even heavy braking you immediately notice how the car stays straight.

Stay away from the figs bearing type. Your not driving a track only car.

05RollaXRS

Good insight. I am only considering the street versions of both FIGS and RR Racing. That is the 88dur, which is a bit softer than the one you got. That is very helpful.