HarrierAWD

Apparently Michelin changed the compound for Cross Terrain. So the new CT is not as same as your current set. The CT is the worst handling tire among 22 tested by CR. Ranked #18 out of 22. Don't let CT's high price fool you. According to CR, many tires beat CT hands down at half the price.

CR buys tires at retail like consumers do, no OEM for CR. They put all tires through the same controlled scientific testing. I can't post the tire test results here (to protect ClubLexus from copyright infringement.) Go to your local library and check the November 2004 issue. Then decide for yourself.

I check CR before I buy just about anything.... from toaster to vaccum, including my RX300. I have to say that I've never been disappointed.

itchybro

Must jump in here on the CT tire. Have owned various autos for 50 years or so and the CT is by far the best running and quietest tire so far. Purchased mine after the CR report and can't imagine what tire they were using. Have 55000 miles on them so far with even wear and no rebalance.
Would not base any purchase soley on CR findings. Might use them for info but that it is all.
It appears from the specs that the 235 tire is somewhat different tire than the 225, looks like the 235 tire was made as an oem for Ford.

The CT was a VAST improvement over the Goodyears!!!

mikey00

Michelin didn't change the compound for Cross Terrains. The 225 size CTs are the same great tire they always were. The difference here is that Consumer Reports did not test the 225s. They tested the 235s which are an special OEM tire Michelin makes. If you buy that size reatil, you get the OEM version. This can be confirmed by reading the Michelin specs. They are the same today as they were years ago. That is the only resaon I can come up with that Consumer Reports didn't find the Cross Terrains as great as almost anyone who has ever owned them.

HarrierAWD

I checked the Michelin CT website and its spec PDF file. There's no difference between 225/70R16 and 235/70R16 - other than the 235 is Ford OEM. So if the 235 sucks, so does the 225.

People are comparing Michelin CT with old worn out OEM Goodyear or Bridgestone - which wasn't stellar to begin with. Of course the CT is going to feel like a much better tire. My point is that there are even better tires out there at lower price, based on CR's scientific comparison test.

Of course, people are free to ignore testing results and simply go by their feeling. I choose to study the facts thoroughly. My GY Integrity will wear out before this coming Colorado winter. I need really good tires. After all, my own safety is on the line.

BTW, the 700 compound is new.... helps with the 65K-mile warranty, but won't do jack for ice. The Toyo M410 Open Country is a good example. It used to be very good on ice. After Toyo changed the compound, it is now rated poor. (See CR Nov. 2001 and Nov. 2004 issues)

mikey00

If you read the Michelin specs the first thing you should notice is that an asterik will take you to a footnote indicarting that the 235 size is a special OEM tire. Next, notice that the 225 has a wear rating of 700 , while the 235 is only around 400. That big of a difference should tell you something. Next, notice that the tread depths are different. I have had 225 CTs for over 2 years and they are as good as any on ice. You may want to do a search here and see what others are saying. The only neagtive press is the Consumer Reports article, and again they tested the OEM version.

mmahamm

The CR ratings need to be taken with a grain of salt. There is enough difference between different sizes of the same tire in general, so as to affect any performance or treadwear characteristics.

We bought Yokohama Avid Tourings (185/65 SR-14) for our 99 Ford Escort ZX2, and were very happy with them. But when I bought the same brand for my 95 Plymouth Grand Voyager (205/70 SR-15), they did not seem to wear as well. Unless CR rated the exact size that you need, you can't use their ratings as gospel.

Also remember that the treadwear ratings are put on by the manufacturer, and are not yet standardized across manufacturers. So for example, a Bridgestone with a 400 treadwear rating, may not last as long as a Goodyear with a 400 rating, or may last longer.

We are all just looking for recommendations as to what is a quiet tire. There is no need to get into heated debate about this. The OEM Bridgestone Duelers are quiet, but I haven't found them to be the best wearing tire. I have new ones on the 2002 we just bought, so I am stuck with them for awhile.

So I am thinking maybe Michelin CTs next, or maybe Yokohama Geolandars. I'd be interested in hearing more about what other tires people have found to be quiet, or not quiet on their RX300, and with long tread life. But I am not interested in a debate about who makes the best tire! Go over to a tire forum for that.

jfelbab

BZZZT! Wrong answer.

Actually the treadwear ratings are directly comparable across manufacturers. They are not numbers assigned by the manufacturer.

The Uniform Tire Quality Grading rating is a quality rating system developed by the American Department of Transportation. It is designed to show the relative performance of passenger tires (but does not apply to winter tires for now).

The treadwear rating is based on a wear test performed on a 400 mile government test course covering specified sections of public roads in Texas. A group of not more than 4 test vehicles travel the course in a convoy so that all tires experience the same conditions. Tread groove depths of the tires being tested are measured after each 800 miles. The same procedure is followed for a set of "control" or "course monitoring tires" Upon the completion of the 7200 mile test, the rating results of both tires are compared, and the tires being tested are assigned a treadwear rating according to government standards. This number can be used to compare between tires. In the case where one tire is rated 600 and another 300 the one rated 600 should last twice as long as the tire rated 300. The relative performance of tires depends upon the actual conditions of their use and may be significantly different from the norm due to differences in road characteristics and climate.

HarrierAWD

I see it now near the bottom of the PDF file. Thanks.

Traturn

Realising this is a bit offtopic (noise) but the treadwear on the Michelins (either) is vastly better than either OE tire.

all 225/70/16

Sku
064378........ DUELER H/T 687 BW....300
402469477. INGEGRITY .....................460
75883...........CROSSTERRAIN SUV ..700
62260...........LTX M&S ..........................500

Actualy the Integrity has a high treadwear; But that cant take into account how ****-poorly the edges wear !

Tammy

Even though the tire may be the same brand, they are not necessarily the same tire sold from dealer to dealer. The tire you purchase at a tire retailer is not the same tire sold at Cosco, Walmart, Sears, Penny's or K-Mart... they're all the same brand, just not the same tire. There are slight differences in tread design, tire belt thickness, core sizes, compounds and most important - Price..or Quality. How does the tire balance and ride after 10K miles?
Check the tire websites and you'll find the "tell tale" are the federally mandated tread wear numbers are different from tire to tire. The sales people down play this, but how else can there be a large difference in price. It comes down to the basics, you get what you pay for and tire makers have adapted. This is the age of international supply. Do some research and you discover the small differences in the tire specs. The old term Blemished comes to mind but tires aren't blemished anymore, they're just sold to another retailer at less cost. Large Box retailers are forcing manufactures to produce a tire that is price driven. This is the dirty little secret dealers don't want to discuss.

uthorns197

Tammy, I'm not a tire expert by any means. But, it seems to me that a Michelin MXV4 or Goodyear Eagle RSA purchased at Discount Tire would be the same tire as a Michelin MXV4 or Goodyear Eagle RSA purchased at Sam's Club or Costco. Are you saying that's not the case??

mikey00

My "cheap" Cross Terrains from big box retailer Costco have a lot of the specs stamped right on them. Some of the more important ones like tread wear rating match the Michelin specs exactly and also match the specs of the Cross Terrains from the high price tire stores. I seriously doubt there is any difference.

jfelbab

Some people just love to believe that there is some conspiracy at work everywhere.

Go look at a tire you like, Michelin, Bridgestone, Goodyear, etc, and physically go look at this tire in the same size and load rating at any number of stores and guess what? The UTOG numbers will be identical regardless of where you find it.

HarrierAWD

Generally speaking, tires with higher tire wear index tend to be quieter on the highway since the compound isn't as "sticky." However, tire wear index alone is not the reason to select a tire.

I personally wouldn't go for anything over 500 due to the ice & snow I get around here. So 700 would be suicidal. For those who live in the "Sunbelt", don't care about handling, and want to save money, the CT seems to be a fine choice.

The Nov 2004 issue of CR has found a few very quiet tires. Go to your local library if you are interested.

jfelbab

From TireRack respondents;
Looks like this tire performs pretty well in snow. Clearly better than the Goodyear RS-A and the Michelin Energy MXV4 S8. Which only got snow traction ratings of 4.9 and 5.7 respectively.

Guess this just points out that a high treadware rating doesn't necessarily mean poor snow traction. FWIW, based on the survey results, this tire outperformed the Goodyear and the Michelin in every category,

Oh and road noise can be more impacted by tread pattern design than hardness or softness of the compound or the treadware rating.