X5 or RX300?
10-20-01, 09:29 AM
#16
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BTW, I forgot to mention my worst snow encounter last year was coming through Vail pass in Colorado at midnight in a blizzard at 10 below zero. The stupid windshield washers froze up and the front of the car was covered with dirty snow and road slush/spray from semi's. The sign advised chain use, but we went ahead anyway because we have the car packed full of stuff and didn't mind driving 15-20mph. It was hairy at times, especially when you'd come around a bend only to find that you needed to pass a semi that was moving at 2mph so you had to get into the "fast" lane which should have been renamed the "deep" lane, but the RX pulled through it all without a hitch, despite me not being able to see worth a ()*@#$()% out the window and our lights being reduced to glowing embers. As soon as we got to a gas station we pulled over and cleaned off the car, the washers didn't thaw until the next day though.
Anyone else had this washer freezing problem? It seemed to start about the time we hit single digits on the cars thermometer, of course driving the windchill meant it was even colder...
Anyone else had this washer freezing problem? It seemed to start about the time we hit single digits on the cars thermometer, of course driving the windchill meant it was even colder...
10-20-01, 12:02 PM
#17
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Re: Re: X5 or RX300?
When we first got our's my mom keep trying to start it when it was already started because she was so used to hearing somthing.
Originally posted by sleepybobcat
3. RX300 MUCH MUCH queiter than the X5
Sometimes I forget the engine or the car is running!
Bob
3. RX300 MUCH MUCH queiter than the X5
Sometimes I forget the engine or the car is running!
Bob
10-20-01, 03:11 PM
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ML320 definitely worth considering.
I looked at the ML back when it first came out and decided that the only way that MB would build this sort of junk was to have an american factory and design staff completely outside of their control. I feel a little bit guilty becuase my long term opinion of the MB nameplate has kept me from even looking at the ML ever since.
Of recent time I have been seriously looking over the various types of 4WD and AWD available and that gave me reason to take another look at the ML.
IMO the current ML is now the equal of the X5 whereas the RX is lacking. The RX is an absolutely stellar purchase if you KNOW that you will never have need of relying on something close to "true" AWD. By "true" I mean something at least equal to a Jeep Cherokee Limited in part-time 4WD. No fluid, "rubber band" (viscous clutch) anywhere within the drive train.
While I am definite not a big fan of MB, when they say they have a "four wheel traction" system using braking I find I have a greater level of faith in them than in Lexus. After all Lexus did ship the RX for two full years without this feature.
So, I still stand by my earlier statement, if you are seriously considering the RX300, then tale a good long look at the Chrysler T&C. THe RX300 is certainly more luxurious, but the Chrysler has a much better AWD mechanical setup.
If your priorities are more in line with having a definite overall advantage in adverse roadbed circumstances, then either the ML320 or the X5, both more expensive, will be more likely to satisfy your needs.
I looked at the ML back when it first came out and decided that the only way that MB would build this sort of junk was to have an american factory and design staff completely outside of their control. I feel a little bit guilty becuase my long term opinion of the MB nameplate has kept me from even looking at the ML ever since.
Of recent time I have been seriously looking over the various types of 4WD and AWD available and that gave me reason to take another look at the ML.
IMO the current ML is now the equal of the X5 whereas the RX is lacking. The RX is an absolutely stellar purchase if you KNOW that you will never have need of relying on something close to "true" AWD. By "true" I mean something at least equal to a Jeep Cherokee Limited in part-time 4WD. No fluid, "rubber band" (viscous clutch) anywhere within the drive train.
While I am definite not a big fan of MB, when they say they have a "four wheel traction" system using braking I find I have a greater level of faith in them than in Lexus. After all Lexus did ship the RX for two full years without this feature.
So, I still stand by my earlier statement, if you are seriously considering the RX300, then tale a good long look at the Chrysler T&C. THe RX300 is certainly more luxurious, but the Chrysler has a much better AWD mechanical setup.
If your priorities are more in line with having a definite overall advantage in adverse roadbed circumstances, then either the ML320 or the X5, both more expensive, will be more likely to satisfy your needs.
10-30-01, 04:08 PM
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not intending to keep beating a dead horse, but...
I recently went home to visit my parents and who just recently got a new X5.
I have a 99 RX and they have the 3.0i X5.
Im torn between the two.
Exterior:
Overall look wise... I say the X5 looks a lot more "manlier."
You can pimp up your Lexus as much as you want, btu I still like the X5 look a bit more.
Interior:
-=The feel=-
The lexus is a lot more comfy and roomy than the x5. Im a tall person and ive done a "comfy" test in the Lexus and X5. I found that the front seats of the lexus are a lot more roomy. I think it has to do with the curviture of the center. Even with the seats pushed quite far back from the wheel in the X5 I found it kind of annoyign that my right knee keeps hitting and rubbing against the center console of the BMW. In the lexus (not that much bigger but still noticable) i dont have this un-comfy feeling.
as for the back. i think the Lexus is more comfy. maybe it was the softer leather or something. Im not sure if the X5 (maybe 4.4i) has reclining back seats, but that is something really cool in the Lexus.
Overall without getting the "premium leather" in the x5, the stock leather in the lexus is more comfy than the x5's roughness.
-=the look=-
eh... im torn... the both are comperable. the x5 has a nice simpler touch than the lexus, but both are good in by book
-=natural feel of controls=-
i enjoyed the layout of the controls of the x5 much more. maybe it was built for a right handed person or something, but everything was where i wanted it to be. even now im still a little confused in the lexus when i want to change the tracks of a cd. I swear, they should have put it up near the screen (for those who have older lexi)
Engine:
I would take the smooth shifiting 5 speed x5 over the lexus's 4 speed anyday.
wow, did i notice a difference even in the 220 hp 3.0i x5. the extra 5 speed really does the trick on the high way and even ins topa nd go traffic. my rev in the lexus going 80 is over 3k and when you push it more, it does feel like there is something pushing you back and slowing you down. but in the x5 with its 5th gear and different gear ratios, the rev at 80 is under 3 at about 2.6 2.7 and its not till after i push it over 90 do i get it to go into the 3's. this really helps when passing at 85-90. maybe my 2-3 year old engine isnt performing as well as a 0.5 year old x5, but still i never got this performance when i first go the lexus.
i can only imagine what the 4.4 or even the new 4.6 would feel like.
gas economy wise... id say teh 3.0i and the lexus are pretty comperable. im getting about 18 in the city right now and the best ive seen on the HW is 22. the BMW was getting 21 when i was driving it.
I definately would get the BMW over the lexus's if all i cared about was the engine even if the lexus engine is somewhat quieter.
Length:
I find the Rx easier to park and manuver than the x5. the x5 is a bit longer and a bit more bulkier and definately heavier. i like the slightly smaller size of the lexus better.
the steering wheel in the x5 was a lot tighter, but more responsive. However, i enjoy the looseness of the lexus's steering wheel. i can say my arms got kind of tired from driving the x5.
suspension:
i dont know about the silver sport, but man i love the x5's cornering ability. i dont get the, 'crap i cant make the turn at 30mph' feel in the x5. it handles a lot better. there is a bit of the "floaty" feeling in the lexus.
well besides wanting to corner better, id choose the lexus's suspension over the x5's. i like the smoother ride. since i drive lond distances fairly often, i enjoy the smoother ride. plus streets in boston are not know for its small potholes.
wind noises:
fairly comperable, id say the x5 is a little better. if youre a person who has the moonroof open all the time, id get the x5. it is definately quieter (both completely open and tilted) than the lexus's! i was surprised how quiet it could get. the side curtains on the moonroof when it is tilted up really helps!
mirrors:
i defiantly like the larger side and rear view mirror of the lexus better. the smaller mirrors of the X5 didnt feel right.
easy of entry into the car:
maybe im used to the lexus, but the doors of the lexus are a lot more lighter and easier to manage. i know my mom had a hard time getting out of the bmw and she never complained about the lexus.
lighting:
I like the red of the x5 better than the white of the lexus. maybe its a matter of taste or somthing, but the red is more soothing.
trunk space:
get the lexus
blinker noise:
maybe it doesnt bother people, but the blinker click in the bmw is annoying.
window buttons:
im used to the lexus's luxuriously large window buttons. the x5's is really small for my finger and i couldnt perform as well at toll booths.
dash:
oh my god! what the hell did they make the dash board out of! i cannot find any good way to clean the dash of the x5. its this rough surface that is really stubbly and having it black attracts so much little white thing's. try brushing it with your hands. my god, it scrapped off my skin and left more white crap all over it. i swear it is so unmanagble. for a neat freak, i really cant take the x5 for that reason.
glove compartment:
get the lexus. i dont even think there is enough space for a tic tac.
windy days:
i think the x5's weight helps... i hate having the lexus sway in the wind. the x5 is a bit better.
wipers:
i like the x5's rear wiper better. it does a complete 180 as compared to the lexus' aprox 120. again, probably cause im a neat freak, but that 60 degrees of dust on the back annoys me.
also, is my water nozel broken in the rear? it looks like someone peeing on my rear window. its one stream that rolls down the window. what is that?
very general fixer uppers:
the bmw's are generally well designed for minor bulb replacements etc. im looking to replace some bulbs in the lexus and its kind of difficult. the x5 is a lot easier to do. things just pop right out!
ok im sure i got more to say and compare, but its getting late and im sick of sitting in my office.
overall option if i had to do it over again and not get many special mods or upgrades...
LEXUS!!!
its true that for those who want a more sporty drive, the X5 is better.
I have a 99 RX and they have the 3.0i X5.
Im torn between the two.
Exterior:
Overall look wise... I say the X5 looks a lot more "manlier."
You can pimp up your Lexus as much as you want, btu I still like the X5 look a bit more.
Interior:
-=The feel=-
The lexus is a lot more comfy and roomy than the x5. Im a tall person and ive done a "comfy" test in the Lexus and X5. I found that the front seats of the lexus are a lot more roomy. I think it has to do with the curviture of the center. Even with the seats pushed quite far back from the wheel in the X5 I found it kind of annoyign that my right knee keeps hitting and rubbing against the center console of the BMW. In the lexus (not that much bigger but still noticable) i dont have this un-comfy feeling.
as for the back. i think the Lexus is more comfy. maybe it was the softer leather or something. Im not sure if the X5 (maybe 4.4i) has reclining back seats, but that is something really cool in the Lexus.
Overall without getting the "premium leather" in the x5, the stock leather in the lexus is more comfy than the x5's roughness.
-=the look=-
eh... im torn... the both are comperable. the x5 has a nice simpler touch than the lexus, but both are good in by book
-=natural feel of controls=-
i enjoyed the layout of the controls of the x5 much more. maybe it was built for a right handed person or something, but everything was where i wanted it to be. even now im still a little confused in the lexus when i want to change the tracks of a cd. I swear, they should have put it up near the screen (for those who have older lexi)
Engine:
I would take the smooth shifiting 5 speed x5 over the lexus's 4 speed anyday.
wow, did i notice a difference even in the 220 hp 3.0i x5. the extra 5 speed really does the trick on the high way and even ins topa nd go traffic. my rev in the lexus going 80 is over 3k and when you push it more, it does feel like there is something pushing you back and slowing you down. but in the x5 with its 5th gear and different gear ratios, the rev at 80 is under 3 at about 2.6 2.7 and its not till after i push it over 90 do i get it to go into the 3's. this really helps when passing at 85-90. maybe my 2-3 year old engine isnt performing as well as a 0.5 year old x5, but still i never got this performance when i first go the lexus.
i can only imagine what the 4.4 or even the new 4.6 would feel like.
gas economy wise... id say teh 3.0i and the lexus are pretty comperable. im getting about 18 in the city right now and the best ive seen on the HW is 22. the BMW was getting 21 when i was driving it.
I definately would get the BMW over the lexus's if all i cared about was the engine even if the lexus engine is somewhat quieter.
Length:
I find the Rx easier to park and manuver than the x5. the x5 is a bit longer and a bit more bulkier and definately heavier. i like the slightly smaller size of the lexus better.
the steering wheel in the x5 was a lot tighter, but more responsive. However, i enjoy the looseness of the lexus's steering wheel. i can say my arms got kind of tired from driving the x5.
suspension:
i dont know about the silver sport, but man i love the x5's cornering ability. i dont get the, 'crap i cant make the turn at 30mph' feel in the x5. it handles a lot better. there is a bit of the "floaty" feeling in the lexus.
well besides wanting to corner better, id choose the lexus's suspension over the x5's. i like the smoother ride. since i drive lond distances fairly often, i enjoy the smoother ride. plus streets in boston are not know for its small potholes.
wind noises:
fairly comperable, id say the x5 is a little better. if youre a person who has the moonroof open all the time, id get the x5. it is definately quieter (both completely open and tilted) than the lexus's! i was surprised how quiet it could get. the side curtains on the moonroof when it is tilted up really helps!
mirrors:
i defiantly like the larger side and rear view mirror of the lexus better. the smaller mirrors of the X5 didnt feel right.
easy of entry into the car:
maybe im used to the lexus, but the doors of the lexus are a lot more lighter and easier to manage. i know my mom had a hard time getting out of the bmw and she never complained about the lexus.
lighting:
I like the red of the x5 better than the white of the lexus. maybe its a matter of taste or somthing, but the red is more soothing.
trunk space:
get the lexus
blinker noise:
maybe it doesnt bother people, but the blinker click in the bmw is annoying.
window buttons:
im used to the lexus's luxuriously large window buttons. the x5's is really small for my finger and i couldnt perform as well at toll booths.
dash:
oh my god! what the hell did they make the dash board out of! i cannot find any good way to clean the dash of the x5. its this rough surface that is really stubbly and having it black attracts so much little white thing's. try brushing it with your hands. my god, it scrapped off my skin and left more white crap all over it. i swear it is so unmanagble. for a neat freak, i really cant take the x5 for that reason.
glove compartment:
get the lexus. i dont even think there is enough space for a tic tac.
windy days:
i think the x5's weight helps... i hate having the lexus sway in the wind. the x5 is a bit better.
wipers:
i like the x5's rear wiper better. it does a complete 180 as compared to the lexus' aprox 120. again, probably cause im a neat freak, but that 60 degrees of dust on the back annoys me.
also, is my water nozel broken in the rear? it looks like someone peeing on my rear window. its one stream that rolls down the window. what is that?
very general fixer uppers:
the bmw's are generally well designed for minor bulb replacements etc. im looking to replace some bulbs in the lexus and its kind of difficult. the x5 is a lot easier to do. things just pop right out!
ok im sure i got more to say and compare, but its getting late and im sick of sitting in my office.
overall option if i had to do it over again and not get many special mods or upgrades...
LEXUS!!!
its true that for those who want a more sporty drive, the X5 is better.
10-31-01, 05:11 AM
#21
Goncookoo
Pretty fair review, but you left out three very important parts:
PRICE: Uhh, we're talking at least a $10k difference! I got a fully loaded 2001 w/Nav for $38.5K. Price out a similar X5 and watch your jaw drop.
SERVICE: Year after year, JD Power customer surveys rank Lexus dealer service as #1.
Reliabilty: Heard about the X5 vehicle fires?
PRICE: Uhh, we're talking at least a $10k difference! I got a fully loaded 2001 w/Nav for $38.5K. Price out a similar X5 and watch your jaw drop.
SERVICE: Year after year, JD Power customer surveys rank Lexus dealer service as #1.
Reliabilty: Heard about the X5 vehicle fires?
10-31-01, 05:59 AM
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oops sorry...
true... i remembered I left out the 3 things rx300tc mentioned after i got into my car and started driving home.
Price:
My parents car without a NAV (my dad said he has a map in his head) but with pretty much everything else heated front and rear seats blah blah... costed over 50k. i got my lexus for 40 k way back when... so for the price id definately agree that the lexus is a better buy.
but seeing that a lot of people out there who have at least 1 new lexi the extra 10k doesnt seem to big of a deal.
Service:
I know my lexus service was really good up till they got a new manager or something. The service itself is still quality stuff but the little thingy's like giving you a loaner got pretty ****ty.
im about 30-45 min away from the dealership (there are 4 in the whole state of mass) and when i need to get an oilchange/xxxmile checkup, its not a lunch our thing. they used to give me a loaner and say i could drop off the car the previous night and then pick it up the night after. but now they are really sticking to the rule that if its a 3 hour or less deal you have to stay. well so now i have to leave my house at 6 am (which means i have to wake up at 5 something) to get it there by 7 and wait for 1.5 hours sometimes and not get to work till 9:30 10. its not that big of a deal for a every 3-5k mile thing, but it was really nice to get a loaner so i didnt have to do that. thats at least 2 hours of productive work i could have gotten done if they had lent me a car.
but besides that the service in watertown, ma is pretty nice.
ive heard from my dad that the dealer in TX that they got it from didnt even wash the car inside and out before handing it over to my dad when he first picked it up. now that sticks!
i dont know about much else first hand, but its pretty dissapointing to get a bad first impression of the dealer the day you go pick up your new car.
reliability: yes true that the lexus has been rated with almost all red circles with the wite dot in the center, but the x5 is still pretty new as it is. the lexus isnt that old either. so i cant realyl say much about reliability either. but the BMW's as a whole (as everyone knows) do have a slightly worse reliability rating than lexus.
considering all that id agree with RX300TC that the lexus RX300 is a better buy for the money.
p.s. not to bash my favorite car or anything... but does anyone else think the rx looks like a supped-up minivan? the new 2003 models seem more so than the 99-02 versions.
Price:
My parents car without a NAV (my dad said he has a map in his head) but with pretty much everything else heated front and rear seats blah blah... costed over 50k. i got my lexus for 40 k way back when... so for the price id definately agree that the lexus is a better buy.
but seeing that a lot of people out there who have at least 1 new lexi the extra 10k doesnt seem to big of a deal.
Service:
I know my lexus service was really good up till they got a new manager or something. The service itself is still quality stuff but the little thingy's like giving you a loaner got pretty ****ty.
im about 30-45 min away from the dealership (there are 4 in the whole state of mass) and when i need to get an oilchange/xxxmile checkup, its not a lunch our thing. they used to give me a loaner and say i could drop off the car the previous night and then pick it up the night after. but now they are really sticking to the rule that if its a 3 hour or less deal you have to stay. well so now i have to leave my house at 6 am (which means i have to wake up at 5 something) to get it there by 7 and wait for 1.5 hours sometimes and not get to work till 9:30 10. its not that big of a deal for a every 3-5k mile thing, but it was really nice to get a loaner so i didnt have to do that. thats at least 2 hours of productive work i could have gotten done if they had lent me a car.
but besides that the service in watertown, ma is pretty nice.
ive heard from my dad that the dealer in TX that they got it from didnt even wash the car inside and out before handing it over to my dad when he first picked it up. now that sticks!
i dont know about much else first hand, but its pretty dissapointing to get a bad first impression of the dealer the day you go pick up your new car.
reliability: yes true that the lexus has been rated with almost all red circles with the wite dot in the center, but the x5 is still pretty new as it is. the lexus isnt that old either. so i cant realyl say much about reliability either. but the BMW's as a whole (as everyone knows) do have a slightly worse reliability rating than lexus.
considering all that id agree with RX300TC that the lexus RX300 is a better buy for the money.
p.s. not to bash my favorite car or anything... but does anyone else think the rx looks like a supped-up minivan? the new 2003 models seem more so than the 99-02 versions.
10-31-01, 08:52 AM
#24
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RX300 as a minivan...
Not souped up, just ELEVATED!
And those pictures of the 2003 RX300 may be a hoax, or they just might be a test by Lexus to check the public pulse. Remember, there have been lots of complaints about the elephant ear look of the mirrors.
Personally I would campaign for complete removal of the mirrors in favor of a more practical use of the display, with two CCD camera's mounted in their place. Maybe that way we could also get around the stupid law that doesn't allow convex mirrors on the drivers side. The driver could select how s/he wanted the display processed/presented.
When I buy an american market car the first thing I do is order a driver side mirror for the "rest of the world".
Not souped up, just ELEVATED!
And those pictures of the 2003 RX300 may be a hoax, or they just might be a test by Lexus to check the public pulse. Remember, there have been lots of complaints about the elephant ear look of the mirrors.
Personally I would campaign for complete removal of the mirrors in favor of a more practical use of the display, with two CCD camera's mounted in their place. Maybe that way we could also get around the stupid law that doesn't allow convex mirrors on the drivers side. The driver could select how s/he wanted the display processed/presented.
When I buy an american market car the first thing I do is order a driver side mirror for the "rest of the world".
10-31-01, 08:58 AM
#25
The Ignore feature works!
Cool! Simply click on the profile of the person you want to ignore and at the bottom of that profile there'll be an option to ignore. Won't have to see their messages or get notifications when they respond to a thread.
03-18-02, 09:50 AM
#29
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X5 4.6i
Ok, I still like our RX-300, but I got a chance to spend some time with the new 4.6i X5 and does that SUV ever haul a$$ ! 
I liked a lot of the upgraded features too, although no DVD NAV until next year, and of course a sticker of 68K!!! but if you get a chance to drive one, take one out, loads of fun.
Still waiting to drive the Twin Turbo Cayenne, there is something eerie about going 0-60 in under 5 seconds....
I liked a lot of the upgraded features too, although no DVD NAV until next year, and of course a sticker of 68K!!! but if you get a chance to drive one, take one out, loads of fun.Still waiting to drive the Twin Turbo Cayenne, there is something eerie about going 0-60 in under 5 seconds....
03-19-02, 03:45 PM
#30
SleepyBobCat: FWIW I agree, go with the RX. In my opinion it is probably a better value and a great neat car to drive. Agree with you on the turning radius issue.
Disclosure: I only previewed an X5 at the dealer, and did not bother to test drive it. The price was just too much for me and it is a bit larger than I needed or wanted so I cannot comment directly on a true comparison based on driving.
Read Goncookoo too.
Good luck with your decision, and new car!
Bob
Disclosure: I only previewed an X5 at the dealer, and did not bother to test drive it. The price was just too much for me and it is a bit larger than I needed or wanted so I cannot comment directly on a true comparison based on driving.
Read Goncookoo too.
Good luck with your decision, and new car!
Bob