General Questions about Brake Job (Pads and Rotors)
11-18-06, 12:38 PM
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General Questions about Brake Job (Pads and Rotors)
Hi,
I just took my Dad's RX300 for 30K service (car actually has 28K) and I was told that the front pads only have 3/32md of materials left and that the rotors are rusted. They recommended the replacement of pads and rotors for all 4 wheels for about $1200. Having done the same type work of a few cars (BMW E36/E46 3 series and a Maxima), I felt that it didn't warrant that much money.) I did a quick search in google and came to this site. After reading through one of the brake job related thread (got a lot of useful info) I have the following questions:
- Is it really necessary to disconnect the brake hose to change the pads/rotors? I am trying to avoid a flush of the brake fluid.
- If I have to flush the fluid, is there a specific brand of fluid I need to use? Can I flush one axle of a time or do I follow the RR, RL, FR, FL pattern? I have a jack and I can only do one axle at a time. From Auto Repair Reference site, it appears that I only need to flush the front? Thanks Tammy by the way. When I change pads and rotors on my BMW I never flush the fluid but I paid attention in not stretching the hose (use wire hanger to hang caliper on suspension.)
- I am planning to buy the Akebono pads from rockauto based on TunedRX300's suggestion, but I am looking for a place that sell Brembo OEM blank since I have good experience with them in my own car. I don't think I need high performance pads and rotors because my Dad is a gentle driver.
- Also, what is the torque spec for the wheel bolts?
- Is it worth it to buy this Haynes service manual?
http://www.***************/mmparts/lex...ir_manual.html
Thank you very much for reading so far. I think from now on I will do the routine maintenance myself and save my Dad some money from the stealer.
I just took my Dad's RX300 for 30K service (car actually has 28K) and I was told that the front pads only have 3/32md of materials left and that the rotors are rusted. They recommended the replacement of pads and rotors for all 4 wheels for about $1200. Having done the same type work of a few cars (BMW E36/E46 3 series and a Maxima), I felt that it didn't warrant that much money.) I did a quick search in google and came to this site. After reading through one of the brake job related thread (got a lot of useful info) I have the following questions:
- Is it really necessary to disconnect the brake hose to change the pads/rotors? I am trying to avoid a flush of the brake fluid.
- If I have to flush the fluid, is there a specific brand of fluid I need to use? Can I flush one axle of a time or do I follow the RR, RL, FR, FL pattern? I have a jack and I can only do one axle at a time. From Auto Repair Reference site, it appears that I only need to flush the front? Thanks Tammy by the way. When I change pads and rotors on my BMW I never flush the fluid but I paid attention in not stretching the hose (use wire hanger to hang caliper on suspension.)
- I am planning to buy the Akebono pads from rockauto based on TunedRX300's suggestion, but I am looking for a place that sell Brembo OEM blank since I have good experience with them in my own car. I don't think I need high performance pads and rotors because my Dad is a gentle driver.
- Also, what is the torque spec for the wheel bolts?
- Is it worth it to buy this Haynes service manual?
http://www.***************/mmparts/lex...ir_manual.html
Thank you very much for reading so far. I think from now on I will do the routine maintenance myself and save my Dad some money from the stealer.
11-18-06, 05:05 PM
#2
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You need not mess with the closed hydraulic system. As you push in the piston, let the fluis travel up [keep syphoning the fluid out of the reservoir to prevent overflow.
If you are doing it yourself, just replace the pads. If the vehcile is shaking while braking, you can either have the rotors turned (my preference would be to replace them). Lexus rotors tend to develop rust, but that is normal.
Other than taking necessary precautions and care .... removed wheel, the job is easy.
OEM pads used to come with anti-chatter grease. You may have to buy it now. Remember to look out for wear indicator [you may have to move it from the old to the new].
From memory the spec for wheel lug bolts is 70ft-lb
Salim
If you are doing it yourself, just replace the pads. If the vehcile is shaking while braking, you can either have the rotors turned (my preference would be to replace them). Lexus rotors tend to develop rust, but that is normal.
Other than taking necessary precautions and care .... removed wheel, the job is easy.
OEM pads used to come with anti-chatter grease. You may have to buy it now. Remember to look out for wear indicator [you may have to move it from the old to the new].
From memory the spec for wheel lug bolts is 70ft-lb
Salim
11-18-06, 07:19 PM
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Thanks for the help. I take that if I keep an eye on the rising fluid level and not let it overflow, etc, I will not need to bleed the brakes?
You need not mess with the closed hydraulic system. As you push in the piston, let the fluis travel up [keep syphoning the fluid out of the reservoir to prevent overflow.
If you are doing it yourself, just replace the pads. If the vehcile is shaking while braking, you can either have the rotors turned (my preference would be to replace them). Lexus rotors tend to develop rust, but that is normal.
Other than taking necessary precautions and care .... removed wheel, the job is easy.
OEM pads used to come with anti-chatter grease. You may have to buy it now. Remember to look out for wear indicator [you may have to move it from the old to the new].
From memory the spec for wheel lug bolts is 70ft-lb
Salim
If you are doing it yourself, just replace the pads. If the vehcile is shaking while braking, you can either have the rotors turned (my preference would be to replace them). Lexus rotors tend to develop rust, but that is normal.
Other than taking necessary precautions and care .... removed wheel, the job is easy.
OEM pads used to come with anti-chatter grease. You may have to buy it now. Remember to look out for wear indicator [you may have to move it from the old to the new].
From memory the spec for wheel lug bolts is 70ft-lb
Salim
11-18-06, 09:48 PM
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If you don't already have one, get yourself a torque wrench. I got a cheap one from my local HarborFreight that did the job just fine. If you read through some of the threads here on brakes, its recommended to do this to prevent warping the rotors.
Good luck. If you've change pads and rotors on your other cars, this one shouldn't be too difficult.
11-18-06, 10:15 PM
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11-18-06, 10:24 PM
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Thanks for the info. I own all the necessary tools since I do the brake jobs on my BMW. But this is the first time I will work on my Dad's car so I am trying to elminate as many "surprises" as possible 
I replied on the other thread about bleeding brakes. Also having recently done this brake job on my car, the lug nuts should be torqued to 70 ft-lbs(wet). Factory is 76 ft-lbs(dry).
If you don't already have one, get yourself a torque wrench. I got a cheap one from my local HarborFreight that did the job just fine. If you read through some of the threads here on brakes, its recommended to do this to prevent warping the rotors.
Good luck. If you've change pads and rotors on your other cars, this one shouldn't be too difficult.
If you don't already have one, get yourself a torque wrench. I got a cheap one from my local HarborFreight that did the job just fine. If you read through some of the threads here on brakes, its recommended to do this to prevent warping the rotors.
Good luck. If you've change pads and rotors on your other cars, this one shouldn't be too difficult.
11-19-06, 09:40 AM
#7
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Dig through old posts and remember, you only need to undo one bolt for the caliper and swing it out of the way. This bolt has lock nut ... two wrenches are needed on the same bolt-shaft. The process is extreemly simple but I must caution you again and again on the safety concerns ... working on vehicles with all wheels not on the ground.
Excellent timing to pick one of those turkey baster to suck out the brake fluid from the master cylender reservoir. Keep the level above 33% and apply brakes only with level above 50%. This would prevent air from entering in the system.
I have not had a reason to bleed barkes in RX. I have heard that with abs and track, there might be a need for special equipment. Then there are folsk who say start with the far end and work your way to the closest. So just avoid the neeed for bleeding.
Salim
Excellent timing to pick one of those turkey baster to suck out the brake fluid from the master cylender reservoir. Keep the level above 33% and apply brakes only with level above 50%. This would prevent air from entering in the system.
I have not had a reason to bleed barkes in RX. I have heard that with abs and track, there might be a need for special equipment. Then there are folsk who say start with the far end and work your way to the closest. So just avoid the neeed for bleeding.
Salim
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11-19-06, 10:41 AM
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Thanks. I plan to do it one axle at a time, using a floor jack + jack stands. Of couse whell choke will be used.
I get the impression that to replace the rotor I will need to remove the caliper completely?
I get the impression that to replace the rotor I will need to remove the caliper completely?
Dig through old posts and remember, you only need to undo one bolt for the caliper and swing it out of the way. This bolt has lock nut ... two wrenches are needed on the same bolt-shaft. The process is extreemly simple but I must caution you again and again on the safety concerns ... working on vehicles with all wheels not on the ground.
Excellent timing to pick one of those turkey baster to suck out the brake fluid from the master cylender reservoir. Keep the level above 33% and apply brakes only with level above 50%. This would prevent air from entering in the system.
I have not had a reason to bleed barkes in RX. I have heard that with abs and track, there might be a need for special equipment. Then there are folsk who say start with the far end and work your way to the closest. So just avoid the neeed for bleeding.
Salim
Excellent timing to pick one of those turkey baster to suck out the brake fluid from the master cylender reservoir. Keep the level above 33% and apply brakes only with level above 50%. This would prevent air from entering in the system.
I have not had a reason to bleed barkes in RX. I have heard that with abs and track, there might be a need for special equipment. Then there are folsk who say start with the far end and work your way to the closest. So just avoid the neeed for bleeding.
Salim
11-19-06, 06:05 PM
#9
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Sure you want to replace totors?
I recall the rotor beeing loose .. it floats on the lug nuts ... and it seemed as if it would come off as I swung the caliper. Since I did not take it off, so cant say for sure that you need to, or need not remove the caliper completly.
Also keep a working vehcile near bye and work when the parts store is open. There are rubber boots and clips that you need to inspect and replace if needed.
If you have not worked on RX before, be aware that the floor jack and jack stand combination may not work. The seam in the middle of the jack-position renders the jack stands un-usable [unless of course if you have the modified slot type head or locate the jack stand at some other location]
Salim
I recall the rotor beeing loose .. it floats on the lug nuts ... and it seemed as if it would come off as I swung the caliper. Since I did not take it off, so cant say for sure that you need to, or need not remove the caliper completly.
Also keep a working vehcile near bye and work when the parts store is open. There are rubber boots and clips that you need to inspect and replace if needed.
If you have not worked on RX before, be aware that the floor jack and jack stand combination may not work. The seam in the middle of the jack-position renders the jack stands un-usable [unless of course if you have the modified slot type head or locate the jack stand at some other location]
Salim
11-19-06, 06:43 PM
#10
Here is a good article on brake fluid.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...fluid_1a.shtml
Brake fluid is possibly the single most neglected component of the automobile. Most high performance drivers check their tire pressures and change their engine oil at frequent intervals. Virtually no one (including me) ever changes the brake fluid in their street car - or even bleeds the brakes. WRONG!
The function of brake fluid is to provide an incompressible medium to transmit the driver’s foot pressure on the brake pedal through the master cylinder(s) to the calipers in order to clamp the friction material against the discs. The foot pressure is multiplied by the mechanical pedal ratio and the hydraulic ratio of the master cylinders, booster (if used) and caliper piston(s).
This is a simple concept. When fresh, all brake fluids are virtually incompressible and the system works as well as its mechanical and hydraulic design allows. There are, however significant problems. Overheated brake fluid can (and will) boil in the caliper. Boiling produces gas bubbles within any boiling fluid. Gas is compressible so boiling brake fluid leads to a “soft” brake pedal with long travel. In extreme cases overheated brake fluid necessitates “pumping the brake pedal” in order to get a pedal at all.
The function of brake fluid is to provide an incompressible medium to transmit the driver’s foot pressure on the brake pedal through the master cylinder(s) to the calipers in order to clamp the friction material against the discs. The foot pressure is multiplied by the mechanical pedal ratio and the hydraulic ratio of the master cylinders, booster (if used) and caliper piston(s).
This is a simple concept. When fresh, all brake fluids are virtually incompressible and the system works as well as its mechanical and hydraulic design allows. There are, however significant problems. Overheated brake fluid can (and will) boil in the caliper. Boiling produces gas bubbles within any boiling fluid. Gas is compressible so boiling brake fluid leads to a “soft” brake pedal with long travel. In extreme cases overheated brake fluid necessitates “pumping the brake pedal” in order to get a pedal at all.
DOT 3 DOT 4, and DOT 5.1 brake fluids are ether based and, as such they are hygroscopic in nature - i.e. they adsorb water at every opportunity. Since water boils at 212 degrees Fahrenheit (100 degrees Celsius) the adsorbed water dramatically lowers the boiling point of the brake fluid. A minute amount of water suspended in the fluid decreases the boiling point as much as 1/3. Damn!
The fluid in the system absorbs water through the breathers, through the caliper piston seals and by magic. Not only does this reduce the boiling point, the entrained water leads to corrosion of both ferrous and Aluminum internal parts. Double Damn!!
The fluid in the system absorbs water through the breathers, through the caliper piston seals and by magic. Not only does this reduce the boiling point, the entrained water leads to corrosion of both ferrous and Aluminum internal parts. Double Damn!!
11-19-06, 07:51 PM
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Well, since the dealer recommend replacing the rotors and pads at once, I figure I will just do them all.
I am still debtaing how to deal with the jack stand situation. I must say Lexus has a lousy design for the jack point. I think my strategy is to use the standard jack to lift one wheel at a time, but also raising the floor jack under the vehicle's floor jack point as an insurance.
I am still debtaing how to deal with the jack stand situation. I must say Lexus has a lousy design for the jack point. I think my strategy is to use the standard jack to lift one wheel at a time, but also raising the floor jack under the vehicle's floor jack point as an insurance.
Sure you want to replace totors?
I recall the rotor beeing loose .. it floats on the lug nuts ... and it seemed as if it would come off as I swung the caliper. Since I did not take it off, so cant say for sure that you need to, or need not remove the caliper completly.
Also keep a working vehcile near bye and work when the parts store is open. There are rubber boots and clips that you need to inspect and replace if needed.
If you have not worked on RX before, be aware that the floor jack and jack stand combination may not work. The seam in the middle of the jack-position renders the jack stands un-usable [unless of course if you have the modified slot type head or locate the jack stand at some other location]
Salim
I recall the rotor beeing loose .. it floats on the lug nuts ... and it seemed as if it would come off as I swung the caliper. Since I did not take it off, so cant say for sure that you need to, or need not remove the caliper completly.
Also keep a working vehcile near bye and work when the parts store is open. There are rubber boots and clips that you need to inspect and replace if needed.
If you have not worked on RX before, be aware that the floor jack and jack stand combination may not work. The seam in the middle of the jack-position renders the jack stands un-usable [unless of course if you have the modified slot type head or locate the jack stand at some other location]
Salim
11-19-06, 10:24 PM
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Ok, I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding the entire floor jack stand situation or maybe I put myself in harms way when I replaced my brakes.
I have set like this:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...967128/c-10101
I place the wheel chocks into position. Lift the entire front or rear end of the car and then place the jack stands under the jack points, then lower the car onto the jack stands. Pull the floor jack away.
Is this a bad method and I got away with it? Unsafe to get underneath the car this way? If so, what is the recommended procedure?
I have set like this:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...967128/c-10101
I place the wheel chocks into position. Lift the entire front or rear end of the car and then place the jack stands under the jack points, then lower the car onto the jack stands. Pull the floor jack away.
Is this a bad method and I got away with it? Unsafe to get underneath the car this way? If so, what is the recommended procedure?
11-19-06, 10:34 PM
#13
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Dealers and most shops want happy customers, so they generally turn rotors and replace pads.
As long as the discs are smooth (no pitting) and the steering does not shake, when brakes are applied, I would leave the disc alone.
Salim
Just saw your other thread regarding after market discs ,,, well that is altogether a different reason.
As long as the discs are smooth (no pitting) and the steering does not shake, when brakes are applied, I would leave the disc alone.
Salim
Just saw your other thread regarding after market discs ,,, well that is altogether a different reason.
Last edited by salimshah; 11-19-06 at 10:42 PM.
11-19-06, 10:54 PM
#14
With the high ground clearance, actually you don't have to remove rear wheels to get access to rear calipers. My mechanic's creeper allow me to bleed and flush rear ones.
No special tool is needed, RX300 has cross diagonal system, be sure to bleed corners on different sides as a pair. I flushed the system twice, exactly as described here.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bleeding_abs.shtml
No special tool is needed, RX300 has cross diagonal system, be sure to bleed corners on different sides as a pair. I flushed the system twice, exactly as described here.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bleeding_abs.shtml
11-20-06, 05:01 AM
#15
I don't understand this comment. I consider a major reason to use a floor jack is to be able to utilize the center jack points (i.e., center-front and center-rear) to raise the car, so you can use the side jack points (i.e., front-left, front-right, rear-left, and rear right) for jack stands. This works well for me. I invested in four jack stands, to facilitate tire rotation, but wheel chocks and one or two jack stands should be fine, with or without the floor jack remaining in place. Just be very careful concerning work that could put power on the drive-wheels while any of the drive wheels are on the ground.