MDX waiting list convert
12-30-01, 09:11 AM
#16
Lead Lap
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: woodinville WA
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
no defog.
That's the part I just can't fathom about the design flaw, almost anyone would know that the A/C cannot function for this purpose below freezing so the common answer would be to inject heat into the equation. Lexus does not.
When I first starting asking these questions of Lexus in 92 their initial answers were that the vehicle was not designed to be an SUV, not designed to be used over mountain passes in the wintertime.
Now here we are in 2001 with the very same system in an SUV.
Be prepared to turn up the heat manually, you're above the snowline.
Oh, don't know if I mentioned this, the defrost/defog function will be normal, it will automatically turn up the heat and the blower, until the interior reaches the temperature setpoint. After that it will blow cooler air (predominantly) to the windshield surface than that needed to keep the cabin up to temperature.
When I first starting asking these questions of Lexus in 92 their initial answers were that the vehicle was not designed to be an SUV, not designed to be used over mountain passes in the wintertime.
Now here we are in 2001 with the very same system in an SUV.
Be prepared to turn up the heat manually, you're above the snowline.
Oh, don't know if I mentioned this, the defrost/defog function will be normal, it will automatically turn up the heat and the blower, until the interior reaches the temperature setpoint. After that it will blow cooler air (predominantly) to the windshield surface than that needed to keep the cabin up to temperature.
12-30-01, 09:13 AM
#17
Lead Lap
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: woodinville WA
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
weeping mirrors
I don't know anything at all about that but just what is it that keeps the manufacturers from extending the top of the outside mirror covers such that it provides a rain "shadow" for the mirrors?
12-30-01, 09:45 AM
#18
Lead Lap
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: woodinville WA
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cute shortcut?
Meaning use of A/C to defog?
Almost all automatic or semi-automatic climate control systems will do this, some will indicate such, and some, like your new RX, will turn on the A/C but with no indication. And there IS a danger hidden in that.
Climate control systems designed by NipponDenso or Denso USA all seem to exhibit this design flaw. Most cars of European manufacture (Borsh?) will always use heat in conjunction with the A/C whenever you activate the defog function, even on the hottest day of summer. That can be a bit discomforting but european climate control engineers apparently consider safety first, before comfort.
It seems to me that the european engineers are right, absent being present at the moment the operator activates this mode, defog, there is no way for the design engineer to know or predict how seriosu the problem might be, so "throw" all of the effort you can at the problem, and then let the operator be the one to modulate, or moderate, the effort.
And it isn't that Lexus doesn't know of this problem. If you buy an LS430 in Canada it comes equipped with an electrically heated windshield. Even the Canadian version of the RX has a electrical wiper blade heater embedded in the lower portion of the windshield.
I guess this is a time that very definitive east to west north/south dividing line has hurt us, I guess it made Lexus think the cold and humid wintertime weather respects it.
European country borders are so convoluted no such decision was possible.
Almost all automatic or semi-automatic climate control systems will do this, some will indicate such, and some, like your new RX, will turn on the A/C but with no indication. And there IS a danger hidden in that.
Climate control systems designed by NipponDenso or Denso USA all seem to exhibit this design flaw. Most cars of European manufacture (Borsh?) will always use heat in conjunction with the A/C whenever you activate the defog function, even on the hottest day of summer. That can be a bit discomforting but european climate control engineers apparently consider safety first, before comfort.
It seems to me that the european engineers are right, absent being present at the moment the operator activates this mode, defog, there is no way for the design engineer to know or predict how seriosu the problem might be, so "throw" all of the effort you can at the problem, and then let the operator be the one to modulate, or moderate, the effort.
And it isn't that Lexus doesn't know of this problem. If you buy an LS430 in Canada it comes equipped with an electrically heated windshield. Even the Canadian version of the RX has a electrical wiper blade heater embedded in the lower portion of the windshield.
I guess this is a time that very definitive east to west north/south dividing line has hurt us, I guess it made Lexus think the cold and humid wintertime weather respects it.
European country borders are so convoluted no such decision was possible.
12-30-01, 05:58 PM
#19
Talking to yourself *****?
What's the matter, you don't want to talk about the 4WD anymore?
You're like a little boy who has to constantly prove/convince himself that he's smarter than everyone else.
Think I'll talk to the site owner's here about refunding your money so we can be done with you.
What's the matter, you don't want to talk about the 4WD anymore?
You're like a little boy who has to constantly prove/convince himself that he's smarter than everyone else.
Think I'll talk to the site owner's here about refunding your money so we can be done with you.
12-31-01, 08:40 AM
#20
Lead Lap
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: woodinville WA
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Newspapers
TC:
Do you subscribe to any newpapers or magazines?
Do you read each and every article and ad, or editorial?
Has it ever occurred to you that someone is reading with great interest those "opposition" political editorials you hate so very much?
Ignore my "babble" and get on with your life, I voted for Clinton/Gore, so what!
Do you subscribe to any newpapers or magazines?
Do you read each and every article and ad, or editorial?
Has it ever occurred to you that someone is reading with great interest those "opposition" political editorials you hate so very much?
Ignore my "babble" and get on with your life, I voted for Clinton/Gore, so what!
12-31-01, 09:01 AM
#22
Poor AOM (angry old man). Still isn't man enough to admit he was wrong. Yet he loves to plaster his opinions everywhere.
What does that say about a man's character?
Remember, what you give is what you get.
What does that say about a man's character?
Remember, what you give is what you get.
01-02-02, 12:40 PM
#23
Pole Position
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Real WORLD
Yesterday my wife and I took our daughter and our three GRANDkids up to Snoqualmie Pass to play in the snow. Since there were seven of us I couldn't take the 2001 RX AWD so I borrowed the company's AWD Aerostar.
Driving into the upper parking lot at the summit became a challenge, one after another I watched as vehicles had to give up the "climb", back down and turn around.
A Dodge/Chrysler FWD minivan was first, almost made it but then lost traction and never regained it. Honda Odessey next, even less success. Toyota HL, couldn't tell the model, didn't even make it to mid-point. Aerostar not only did fine there but went all the way up to the third parking area.
Our youngest grandson soon got too cold and my wife and I returned with him to the car. My curosity got the best of me so I cruised the lower parking area until a parking spot opened up within sight of the bottom of the first incline.
Lots and lots of vehicles couldn't pull the incline, most of them recognizably FWD. Quite a few vehicles did make it but some that didn't were quite a surprise.
An 01 or 02 (VSC badge) RX AWD. He was clearly having trouble on the incline but he wasn't going to give up easily. I finally got out of our car and walked over to help by pushing and of course this made him just a little peeved. He finally had to give up and back down the incline.
It was clear that his rear wheels were "driving", but apparently not enough to be of any help. I thought that I could also hear the TRAC "thumping".
But the real surprise of the day was a late model 4runner that couldn't pull the incline. That driver was REALLY peeved. He even put in "low" range before he finally gave up.
Absolutely no one seemed to have any trouble (driving, walking is another story)within the snow and ice packed LEVEL parking areas.
The incline:
Maybe 5% or less, and about 25 yards, packed snow and ice with some gravel and sand. We arrived late in the day, around 2 PM, and I'm sure the incline had been sanded early that morning but by now there was clearly more slippery surface than otherwise.
It was so slippery in the center that you couldn't walk on it without falling and I watched several kids slid down the center of the incline in their ski boots.
Why did the Aerostar do so well, equipped with simple summer tires, over others that shouldn't have failed? I don't know enough to be really sure but I suspect it was the fact that the Aerostar is basically RWD, 30/70, and switches to 50/50 if the rear wheels begine to slip.
But why didn't the 4runner make it? The driver was using a conservative approach, not gunning it like most would.
I'm wondering if this new type of LSD, using the brakes for implementation, just isn't up to these types of challenges. The reports I keep hearing is if you aren't carrying enough forward momentum when you hit a slippery area then you dead in the (frozen) water.
Is there anyone out there with this type of experience with the ML?
Driving into the upper parking lot at the summit became a challenge, one after another I watched as vehicles had to give up the "climb", back down and turn around.
A Dodge/Chrysler FWD minivan was first, almost made it but then lost traction and never regained it. Honda Odessey next, even less success. Toyota HL, couldn't tell the model, didn't even make it to mid-point. Aerostar not only did fine there but went all the way up to the third parking area.
Our youngest grandson soon got too cold and my wife and I returned with him to the car. My curosity got the best of me so I cruised the lower parking area until a parking spot opened up within sight of the bottom of the first incline.
Lots and lots of vehicles couldn't pull the incline, most of them recognizably FWD. Quite a few vehicles did make it but some that didn't were quite a surprise.
An 01 or 02 (VSC badge) RX AWD. He was clearly having trouble on the incline but he wasn't going to give up easily. I finally got out of our car and walked over to help by pushing and of course this made him just a little peeved. He finally had to give up and back down the incline.
It was clear that his rear wheels were "driving", but apparently not enough to be of any help. I thought that I could also hear the TRAC "thumping".
But the real surprise of the day was a late model 4runner that couldn't pull the incline. That driver was REALLY peeved. He even put in "low" range before he finally gave up.
Absolutely no one seemed to have any trouble (driving, walking is another story)within the snow and ice packed LEVEL parking areas.
The incline:
Maybe 5% or less, and about 25 yards, packed snow and ice with some gravel and sand. We arrived late in the day, around 2 PM, and I'm sure the incline had been sanded early that morning but by now there was clearly more slippery surface than otherwise.
It was so slippery in the center that you couldn't walk on it without falling and I watched several kids slid down the center of the incline in their ski boots.
Why did the Aerostar do so well, equipped with simple summer tires, over others that shouldn't have failed? I don't know enough to be really sure but I suspect it was the fact that the Aerostar is basically RWD, 30/70, and switches to 50/50 if the rear wheels begine to slip.
But why didn't the 4runner make it? The driver was using a conservative approach, not gunning it like most would.
I'm wondering if this new type of LSD, using the brakes for implementation, just isn't up to these types of challenges. The reports I keep hearing is if you aren't carrying enough forward momentum when you hit a slippery area then you dead in the (frozen) water.
Is there anyone out there with this type of experience with the ML?
01-02-02, 12:42 PM
#24
RX 300 & 350Z Guru
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You didn't have to post this on two seperate threads, did you? It's like you really, really hate the RX AWD setup. According to your story, it is no better than a conventional 4WD setup on the 4Runner. I think it is more the driver than the 4-wheel drive setup in this situation.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...465#post166465
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...465#post166465
01-02-02, 01:06 PM
#25
Pole Position
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hate?
No, but I certainly would like to understand it better.
And no, I was able to watch these drivers pretty closely, I thought their approach to the problem was reasonable and measured. Their tires could have been a good part of the problem, I didn't pay much attention to that aspect.
To be completely fair to the Rx AWD and other AWDs, I would doubt that either of our previosu Jeeps, an 85 and a 92 Cherokee Limited, would have made it up this incline in full-time 4WD mode. In the Jeeps there were many, many times when I had to shift it into part-time mode.
I can't say for sure but today I believe that the Jeep's part time system locked the center transfer case and they were both equipped with rear LSD.
Doesn't the new 4runner have the same AWD setup as the RX? I think the Aerostar made the climb probably because basically its center differential, transfer case (?) is always "locked", unlike the RX, HL, Sequoia and 4runner which only becomes "locked" if the VC "works", and then only partially.
I think that might also be the true advantage of the MDX, ML, and X5, "fixed" torque distribution front to rear FULL-TIME.
And no, I was able to watch these drivers pretty closely, I thought their approach to the problem was reasonable and measured. Their tires could have been a good part of the problem, I didn't pay much attention to that aspect.
To be completely fair to the Rx AWD and other AWDs, I would doubt that either of our previosu Jeeps, an 85 and a 92 Cherokee Limited, would have made it up this incline in full-time 4WD mode. In the Jeeps there were many, many times when I had to shift it into part-time mode.
I can't say for sure but today I believe that the Jeep's part time system locked the center transfer case and they were both equipped with rear LSD.
Doesn't the new 4runner have the same AWD setup as the RX? I think the Aerostar made the climb probably because basically its center differential, transfer case (?) is always "locked", unlike the RX, HL, Sequoia and 4runner which only becomes "locked" if the VC "works", and then only partially.
I think that might also be the true advantage of the MDX, ML, and X5, "fixed" torque distribution front to rear FULL-TIME.
01-02-02, 01:48 PM
#26
Wild *****, you avoided another direct question that apparently gets to the heart of your character: Why do you feel you need to spam several discussions with your ramblings? Not only here, but over at Edmund's Town Hell.
Answer the question. Or won't your ego let you?
Poor AOM.
Answer the question.
Answer the question. Or won't your ego let you?
Poor AOM.
Answer the question.
01-02-02, 01:55 PM
#27
RX 300 & 350Z Guru
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Hate?
Originally posted by willard west
Doesn't the new 4runner have the same AWD setup as the RX? I think the Aerostar made the climb probably because basically its center differential, transfer case (?) is always "locked", unlike the RX, HL, Sequoia and 4runner which only becomes "locked" if the VC "works", and then only partially.
Doesn't the new 4runner have the same AWD setup as the RX? I think the Aerostar made the climb probably because basically its center differential, transfer case (?) is always "locked", unlike the RX, HL, Sequoia and 4runner which only becomes "locked" if the VC "works", and then only partially.
-Nick
01-02-02, 02:58 PM
#28
Pole Position
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brakes
But didn't I read somewhere that both the 4runner and the sequoia were now using the ML's "brake concept" for engine torque distribution, LSD?
TC: Senior moment maybe, what question?
TC: Senior moment maybe, what question?
01-02-02, 03:32 PM
#29
RX 300 & 350Z Guru
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Brakes
Originally posted by willard west
But didn't I read somewhere that both the 4runner and the sequoia were now using the ML's "brake concept" for engine torque distribution, LSD?
But didn't I read somewhere that both the 4runner and the sequoia were now using the ML's "brake concept" for engine torque distribution, LSD?
-Nick