bioart

Hello,

I just placed a deposit on a 2002 Navi RX300... I was on the waiting list for an MDX navi since July, and gave up... (best case scenario would have been feb-may). I should have never waited that long to pay MSRP...

My wife and I test drove the RX300 and really liked it. There's not much difference between it and the MDX (the MDX is bigger, but other than that, we would be happy with either...)

I had a couple of questions, if I may inconvenience y'all

-Can you change the destination on the navigation while driving?

-Who makes the navi?

-How much should I pay for the car?

-Can you fit 2 people in the back with a car seat in the middle? (confortably)

-Why did I wait this long to decide on the RX300? (rethorical Q. dont mind me)

Thanks!

Art

MrIan

Hey welcome to CL!

Sorry i don't know the 1st 2 questions...

You should be paying around 39,000 for AWD and 37,000 for FWD(our 2001 non-navi FWD was 36,000)

The rear might be a little cramped but not uncomfortable.

We were originally going to buy an x5, but a 40k car with no cd player was not acceptable. We also looked at the MDX, but we didn't like the hard seats and 1st year problems.

I'm sure you'll be happy with your RX.

______________________
2001 RX300/FWD/Silver/Black
1998 Q45t/Silver/Black
2000 I30t/Gold/Tan

willard west

Don't buy th eNav unless you have to in order to get other options.

The Lexus Nav has at least 4 "firmware" flaws, flaws which so far Lexus will not acknowledge. Additionally I was promised a free Nav DVD upgrade, due late in 2001, when I purchased my 2001 RX300 AWD late in 2000. Now they want $200 for the update but so far it's unknown when the update will be available and whether or not it will include a firmware fix.

Buy the Rx300 by all means but get an "aftermarket" nav you can take from car to car.

RX300TC

You can change the destination if it is a preprogrammed (i.e., your "Home" button) or if it is a destination that you previously entered (it remembers something like the last 10). But you can not input a new address via the on-screen keyboard unless the car come to a stop (like at a traffic light).

The Nav unit is made by Denso. What's most impressive is that the street database is a combination of the two most popular geo-databases out there, Navtech and GDT. Read more here . And by the way, I did testing with some MDX owners in the beginning of the year and it seems that the RX Nav was able to find addresses that the MDX couldn't. So though no navigation system is perfect, the RX is more complete than the MDX.

That depends on where you live, what's your zip code and city?

Yes, we do it all the time.

The MDX is a fine vehicle if you need the extra seating/cargo space. But the RX is more luxurious and that's what we wanted in a vehicle, plus Lexus customer service blows away Acura.

bioart

Thanks for the info... I am in MA, zip 02476... I've seen the TMV quotes, but never having had to haggle a price down... I'm not sure what to do

The dealer called me back 30 minutes after putting the deposit down and told me he could get any of my three color choices quickly (top choice is indigo blue). I did not get anything close to that treatment from acura... I hope this is good sign of things to come

Art

RX300TC

Bioart-

You didn't list an EXACT vehicle spec, so I threw one together based on what I think you'll want (IMHO, what you should get and the way they come configured from Japan):

2002 4wd, w/Nav package, heated seats, Color Keyed Rear Spoiler, Accessory Cross Bars, Cargo Mat, Wheel Locks.

MSRP $42,071
Invoice $37,343

What should you pay: 38,000 - 38,400.

You need to go in there with the attitude that:

a) "I'm ready to buy, I'll buy the car today if the price is right."

b) "I've done my homework. I know the invoice is $37.4k, I'll give you 38k which gives you a $600 profit on a quick sale." If they don't like that price, ask them for a counter-offer. If they quote higher than $38.4k, then say "I'll give you $38.4k or I walk out the door and give XXX my business (make sure you have the name of another dealer)." Be prepared to walk out the door or you'll never get your price. I gurantee that either they'll stop you at the last second or call you at home. Stick to your guns and don't flinch.

You really should try to wrap up the deal before January 1, the dealers like to sell cars towards the end of the month/year.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

P.S. Edmunds "TMV" is worthless. Bunch of idiots over there.

wwest

go to your local Mercedes dealer and have him give you the complete skinny about the advantages of the ML320's AWD drive system over the RX's. You will learn a lot in the process, and don't be shy about the fact that you will likely buy the Lexus, he will do a much better job of educating you on the advantages of the ML's AWD system over the Rx that way. Get a quote on the ML configured the way you want it.

The ML quote will likely be higher than what you expect to pay for an RX.

Now go to the RX salesman with AWD knowledge and ML quote in hand and have him "sell" you a lesser product based on price alone. Put him "under the gun", if you will.

A few pointers

The RX AWD is predominantly a FWD. Normal, latent, torque distribution is 70/30, F/R with all four wheels having basically equal traction. If both front wheels begin to slip then the viscous clutch should be able to "tighten" up the torque distribution to 50/50.

But I have strong reason to believe that the RX's VC is so lightly pre-loaded that it would never get to a 50/50 torque split except maybe under extreme front wheel slippage conditions, and by then you're likely in the ditch, or worse, anyway.

The RX also has TRAC which is supposed to brake any wheel that begins to slip or where the ECU detects that slippage is imminant. In actual practice I haven't been able to get the TRAC system to intervene under any circumstances. VSC yes, TRAC no.

And there is a CLEAR conflict here.

The center differential's VC will not, CANNOT, "tighten up" the torque coupling front to rear unless it ACTUALLY INCURS slippage in the front vs the rear. So it is my suspicion that TRAC is used only right to left or vice versa, never front to rear as that would totally defeat the purpose of the VC.

The bottom line is the fact that the RX has an "open" center differential which will automatically (absent the UNLIKELY intervention of TRAC or VC) route ALL of the engine torque to the wheel or wheels with the LEAST TRACTION!

The MDX, the ML, and the X5 all have transfer cases with fixed torque distribution to the front vs the rear and these are definitely advantagous over the RX and the HL. The X5 has a definite, predominant, torque bias to the rear which makes it the best of the lot (AWD considerations only), and the ML comes in second for the same reason with only a slight rear torque bias.

And you just might want to do some serious research regarding the design flaws in the Lexus climate control system. This flaw can make the vehicle VERY HAZARDOUS to drive in wintertime conditions.

If the windshield should suddenly fog over, or even begin to fog over, ignore Lexus' intructions completely and:

Turn up the HEAT as high as you can "MAX HEAT"

Then depress the front windshield defrost/defog/demist button.

Reduce the heating level as needed for comfort while remaining aware that in cold climates a heated windshield is a better prevention of the onset of condensation than is dehumidified airflow.

And don't let the fact that the Lexus climate control system works perfectly fine for this purpose in warmer climates fool you, it is completely NON-FUNCTIONAL below about 35F OAT, and marginally functional below 55F.

OAT: Outside Air Temperature.

LexRX

bioart, another thing to know about the RX is that it has a built in AWD monitoring system that tells you exatcly why it isn't working properly. It comes standard - called wwest feature

-Nick

RX300TC

Yup, the AWD monitoring system has another name: AOM

(Angry Old Man)

wwest

but I ALWAYS get EVEN!

The three Nav firmware flaws are:

1. While under its guidance it will "jump" you to a parallel roadbed for no reason whatsoever. You leave your origin and follow its guidance commands religiously. As you travel parallel to a more major roadbed it suddenly decides, "hey, you're now over there", and starts giving you new directions accordingly.

Lexus claims this is due to the inaccuracy of the GPS system, and yes, the GPS system does incorporate inaccuracies at this level. But to have itself guided you to where you are at the moment there must be a firmware flaw in order for it to "think" you are someplace else.

2. There are gaps in the Nav map coverage, something expected, no map system can ever be perfect. But the Lexus system will oftentimes tell you it has successfully computed a route and off you go, only to find out later, once you are completely lost out in the sticks, that it "over-looked" a gap in the map coverage along the route it chose for you to follow. THEN it pops up and tells you, sorry, due to lack of map resolution you're now on your own.

3. The shortest TIME routing between Seattle and Condon, Oregon is almost 100 miles and over an hour longer, by actual Nav disaply, than the shortest distance routing.

Luckily I had already learned to cross check the Nav routing solutions before I encountered this little jewel.

RX300TC

Poor angry old man.

You're wrong about the RX300's 4WD system, and we're using one of your own sources to prove it: http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/awd.html

You're losing credibilty here and on Edmunds. You'll have to start spouting your nonsense somewhere else. Or maybe your wife will listen to you. Probably not.

wwest

TC,

I see you finally followed my advice and when to 4x4abc and did some serious reading, congradulations, must have been a real interesting experience learning something new.

RX300TC

Please *****, I've always known how the system worked once I talked to several folks and did the research you never did. I was just waiting for you to admit you were wrong. But of course you won't, that might actually indicate that YOU learned something.

Another prime example of your condescending attitude. I forgot, you know everything on the Internet and where it can be found. Haven't you figured out yet why folks don't like you?

What's the matter *****, can't admit you were wrong?

Remember, "a man reaps what he sows". Or in the words of Mr. Garcia, "If you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind".

bioart

Well, we should be getting the car this week if we are lucky (we want indigo as first choice... they are trying to do swaps to get one to me ASAP).

Thanks to all for the info on the AWD. On the issue about the defroster, wont the car behave like a normal car at temps below 35? (without the AC's help?). If so, I see no problem since the most cars dont have the cute shortcut feature to defog the windshield... (correct me if I'm wrong )

I can definitively feel the love in this board... more of a sibling rivalry kind of thing... At least the discussions are about how exactly something works (and if it does or not) instead of about problems everyone has with the car (like the infamous THUD in the MDX)...

Art

LexRX

How about the weeping mirrors? That seems to drive MDXers mad!

-Nick