pads and rotor, I've tried to read as much as I can. pls help ^^
01-19-08, 11:48 PM
#16
Moderator
There is a down side to having good brakes ...
The way people tail gate in Austin, you get rear ended
Been there twice, and now I look in the rear view mirror before standing on my lowly oem setup.
Salim
The way people tail gate in Austin, you get rear ended
Been there twice, and now I look in the rear view mirror before standing on my lowly oem setup.
Salim
01-20-08, 02:25 AM
#17
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yeah I agree with you on OEM is more than enough for my parent, but since I'm getting new brakes, just wondering if I can get better stopping power for same or less than what lexus quoted me which is around 1100, for new pads and rotors. its a heavy vehical, more stopping power never hurts 
01-20-08, 07:20 AM
#18
Moderator
One of the down side to eom rotors is they tend to get rust and squeel after a wash.
The dealer labor will be high and most probably they will stick with oem product.
Other brake shops (also dealer) tend to do more than minimum on brake jobs. They maximize on their profits but also dont get unsatisfied customers.
Salim
The dealer labor will be high and most probably they will stick with oem product.
Other brake shops (also dealer) tend to do more than minimum on brake jobs. They maximize on their profits but also dont get unsatisfied customers.
Salim
01-20-08, 08:27 PM
#19
"I don't know why would anyone not to put performance brake fluid that are DOT complying. Higher wet boiling point means safety. If one says $5 more per liter is expensive, what is the value of stopping shorter to avoid an accident?"
Some performance fluids absorb water faster and easier than OE type fluids. Some of them also have very high dry boiling points with fairly low wet boiling points.
Neither one is an issue for a car that gets flushed regularly. But can be an issue if you leave it in too long.
Also some performance fluids are thicker than OE which can make the ABS system less effective.
I'm leaning toward trying the SL.6 in the spring.
Some performance fluids absorb water faster and easier than OE type fluids. Some of them also have very high dry boiling points with fairly low wet boiling points.
Neither one is an issue for a car that gets flushed regularly. But can be an issue if you leave it in too long.
Also some performance fluids are thicker than OE which can make the ABS system less effective.
I'm leaning toward trying the SL.6 in the spring.
01-21-08, 08:25 AM
#20
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it is easy to fall into this aftermarket "more is better " trap.
the only time you need to be considering bigger brakes and harder pads is if the brakes that you HAVE are not doing the job. we aren't taking about some chevy chevette here where they put the smallest most miserly brakes they could fit to save a buck. we are talking about a top flight manufacturer that knows what they are doing. so... trust them. if you are driving this thing every day and have yet to boil the fluid or turn the rotors blue or crack them, then the odds are that there isn't a thing in the world you need to do except get a good deal on stock stuff and bolt it on. if you are hooking up your 40 ft boat and towing it in the mountains... well thats a different story. but until you can legitimately identify an issue that you truely believe is unacceptable, you are always better off sticking with what the engineers ( real ones) at lexus/toyota have come up with as a combination. they are really good at what they do and don't make mistakes very often that the aftermarket has some " magic bean " fix for. i can't tell you the number of times... and it would be in the several hundreds, im sure, that clients came in with "performance" modifications that made the cars stop worse run worse, handle worse then they EVER did stock.
as an engineer and someone with 35 years in the business and designer and manufacturer of race cars for most of that time, i can say with some certainty that the best thing most aftermarket stuff is good for is getting the money out of your wallet as fast as they possibly can.
first rule of engineering. don't fix anything that isn't broken.
the only time you need to be considering bigger brakes and harder pads is if the brakes that you HAVE are not doing the job. we aren't taking about some chevy chevette here where they put the smallest most miserly brakes they could fit to save a buck. we are talking about a top flight manufacturer that knows what they are doing. so... trust them. if you are driving this thing every day and have yet to boil the fluid or turn the rotors blue or crack them, then the odds are that there isn't a thing in the world you need to do except get a good deal on stock stuff and bolt it on. if you are hooking up your 40 ft boat and towing it in the mountains... well thats a different story. but until you can legitimately identify an issue that you truely believe is unacceptable, you are always better off sticking with what the engineers ( real ones) at lexus/toyota have come up with as a combination. they are really good at what they do and don't make mistakes very often that the aftermarket has some " magic bean " fix for. i can't tell you the number of times... and it would be in the several hundreds, im sure, that clients came in with "performance" modifications that made the cars stop worse run worse, handle worse then they EVER did stock.
as an engineer and someone with 35 years in the business and designer and manufacturer of race cars for most of that time, i can say with some certainty that the best thing most aftermarket stuff is good for is getting the money out of your wallet as fast as they possibly can.
first rule of engineering. don't fix anything that isn't broken.
01-21-08, 08:41 AM
#21
Super Moderator
My mom had a 79 Chevette which had the worst transmission and brakes of any vehicle we owned, unlike the 79 Nova that lasted over 15 years for us (including track use). My father said it was a a tough call on which engine was worse the 77 Ford Fairmont where you would press the gas and it make a lot of noise or the 64 Ford Falcon that had blow-by and did the same thing.
01-21-08, 09:37 AM
#22
Moderator
I mostly agree with stevesxm ... but
Many years ago, during the first year of engineering we had a discussion on what is engineering and what is a good design.
The resounding answer was the most cost effective way to accomplish the intended purpose. It should not fall short but then it should not be over-designed at expense of cost.
There are two operative words here "cost effective" and "intended purpose". Readers can ponder over both, and I will leave it at that. [keep in mind mistakes can happen too .. undersized gussets]
Back to topic ...
Reduced fading is the only key factor for looking at alternatives.
But since dimsumboy has to change stuff, he is looking at alternatives and the most bang for his buck. What I (and maybe stevesxm) have shared is that don't expect improvement. If it gives him fractional improvement (actual or perceived or even voyeuristic) , all the power to him.
Salim.
Many years ago, during the first year of engineering we had a discussion on what is engineering and what is a good design.
The resounding answer was the most cost effective way to accomplish the intended purpose. It should not fall short but then it should not be over-designed at expense of cost.
There are two operative words here "cost effective" and "intended purpose". Readers can ponder over both, and I will leave it at that. [keep in mind mistakes can happen too .. undersized gussets]
Back to topic ...
Reduced fading is the only key factor for looking at alternatives.
But since dimsumboy has to change stuff, he is looking at alternatives and the most bang for his buck. What I (and maybe stevesxm) have shared is that don't expect improvement. If it gives him fractional improvement (actual or perceived or even voyeuristic) , all the power to him.
Salim.
01-21-08, 09:38 AM
#23
it is easy to fall into this aftermarket "more is better " trap.
the only time you need to be considering bigger brakes and harder pads is if the brakes that you HAVE are not doing the job. we aren't taking about some chevy chevette here where they put the smallest most miserly brakes they could fit to save a buck. we are talking about a top flight manufacturer that knows what they are doing. so... trust them. if you are driving this thing every day and have yet to boil the fluid or turn the rotors blue or crack them, then the odds are that there isn't a thing in the world you need to do except get a good deal on stock stuff and bolt it on. if you are hooking up your 40 ft boat and towing it in the mountains... well thats a different story. but until you can legitimately identify an issue that you truely believe is unacceptable, you are always better off sticking with what the engineers ( real ones) at lexus/toyota have come up with as a combination. they are really good at what they do and don't make mistakes very often that the aftermarket has some " magic bean " fix for. i can't tell you the number of times... and it would be in the several hundreds, im sure, that clients came in with "performance" modifications that made the cars stop worse run worse, handle worse then they EVER did stock.
as an engineer and someone with 35 years in the business and designer and manufacturer of race cars for most of that time, i can say with some certainty that the best thing most aftermarket stuff is good for is getting the money out of your wallet as fast as they possibly can.
first rule of engineering. don't fix anything that isn't broken.
the only time you need to be considering bigger brakes and harder pads is if the brakes that you HAVE are not doing the job. we aren't taking about some chevy chevette here where they put the smallest most miserly brakes they could fit to save a buck. we are talking about a top flight manufacturer that knows what they are doing. so... trust them. if you are driving this thing every day and have yet to boil the fluid or turn the rotors blue or crack them, then the odds are that there isn't a thing in the world you need to do except get a good deal on stock stuff and bolt it on. if you are hooking up your 40 ft boat and towing it in the mountains... well thats a different story. but until you can legitimately identify an issue that you truely believe is unacceptable, you are always better off sticking with what the engineers ( real ones) at lexus/toyota have come up with as a combination. they are really good at what they do and don't make mistakes very often that the aftermarket has some " magic bean " fix for. i can't tell you the number of times... and it would be in the several hundreds, im sure, that clients came in with "performance" modifications that made the cars stop worse run worse, handle worse then they EVER did stock.
as an engineer and someone with 35 years in the business and designer and manufacturer of race cars for most of that time, i can say with some certainty that the best thing most aftermarket stuff is good for is getting the money out of your wallet as fast as they possibly can.
first rule of engineering. don't fix anything that isn't broken.
Do you even know what is the supplier of Toyota OEM brake fluid?
When did Toyota become a chemical and oil product company????
Don't we all know that there is always people that believe if Toyota packs air into a bottle and sell it, there are those who swear it will make them healthy and sniff that Toyota branded air all day long.
May I suggest you to read this excellent white paper from a brake designer, not some clerk who writes the one manual for a product portfolio of 30 cars.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...fluid_1a.shtml
01-21-08, 09:47 AM
#24
"Some performance fluids absorb water faster and easier than OE type fluids. Some of them also have very high dry boiling points with fairly low wet boiling points.
Neither one is an issue for a car that gets flushed regularly. But can be an issue if you leave it in too long.
Also some performance fluids are thicker than OE which can make the ABS system less effective.
Neither one is an issue for a car that gets flushed regularly. But can be an issue if you leave it in too long.
Also some performance fluids are thicker than OE which can make the ABS system less effective.
The difference is what the boiling temperature is when there is certain % of water. Expensive brake fluid have higher temperature when it is wet, and brake fluid is starting to become wet the moment one pours it in the brake reservior.
Fluid is impressionable medium, I am not sure viscosity has anything to do with the function of transfering force from the pedal to the caliper.
Here is a list of good brake fluid,
Brake Fluid Dry Boiling Point Wet Boiling Point Suggested List Price
AP SUPER 600 590°F 410°F $18.00/16.9oz. .
CASTROL SRF 590°F 518°F $69.99/33.8oz.
NEO SUPER DOT 610 610°F 421°F $15.00/12oz.
MOTUL RACING 600 593°F 420°F $15.00/16.9oz.
MOTUL DOT 5.1 509°F 365°F $6.50/16.9oz.
ATE SUPER BLUE 536°F 392°F $11.99/33.8oz
VALVOLINE SYNPOWER 503°F 343°F $4.97/16.9oz.
ATE SL 500°F 329°F $7.95/16.9oz.
CASTROL LMA 450°F 311°F $3.50/16.9oz.
AP 551 528°F 288°F $12.50/16.9oz.
01-21-08, 11:00 AM
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well...
its not that hard a question. and a lot of the answers are " why do you care ? "
what is the wet boiling point of the factory fluid. answer: not positive but believe the feds demand .3 or better which i think is 325. REAL ans is ... who cares ? when was the last time you boiled the fluid on your vehicle ? if THAT answer is any time in the last lifetime , then yes... you have a material issue that needs to be addressed. if, on the other hand , you are like 99.9 % of the people that drive this vehicle and the answer is " never" , then the wet boiling point of the fluid is meaningless trivia because
( and here is the tricky part ) the toyota guys REALLY took the time to say to their supplier " hey, ya know what, lets not put some watered down slime in this $ 30,000 car ( or whatever they cost) and then have to spend a BILLION dollars recalling them and settling lawsuits. "
what viscosity is it ? since there is no flow in a brake system the viscosity is almost meaningless. true... if it were sae 90 gear oil, you would get some parasitic line drag as the fluid column moves the 1/4 or 1/2 inch that is moves in the master cylinder and lines but since it isn't and as long as its between 0 and prob 40 or 50 it doesn't mean a thing. why ? because people have been making hydraulic brake sytems for 90 years or so and they have it figured out pretty well. this is not uncharted territory.
my only point is this. you are dealing with a good quality product here built by a company that is supremely good at what they do. if you are beating your rx300 hard enough and often enough to run it out of brakes then , by all means, like any other mechanical system found wanting, design a system that will tolerate that level of load. i don't see that as the case here. i see this as a bog standard set up that you KNOW will go 100 k miles being used just as it is.
now... you can put back EXACTLY what came off and know EXACTLY where you stand and what you have OR you can throw a bunch of stuff at it that you DON'T know anything about.
i see absolutely no net gain here by going away from standard off the shelf stuff. just money going out the door for some brand name stickers.
its not that hard a question. and a lot of the answers are " why do you care ? "
what is the wet boiling point of the factory fluid. answer: not positive but believe the feds demand .3 or better which i think is 325. REAL ans is ... who cares ? when was the last time you boiled the fluid on your vehicle ? if THAT answer is any time in the last lifetime , then yes... you have a material issue that needs to be addressed. if, on the other hand , you are like 99.9 % of the people that drive this vehicle and the answer is " never" , then the wet boiling point of the fluid is meaningless trivia because
( and here is the tricky part ) the toyota guys REALLY took the time to say to their supplier " hey, ya know what, lets not put some watered down slime in this $ 30,000 car ( or whatever they cost) and then have to spend a BILLION dollars recalling them and settling lawsuits. "
what viscosity is it ? since there is no flow in a brake system the viscosity is almost meaningless. true... if it were sae 90 gear oil, you would get some parasitic line drag as the fluid column moves the 1/4 or 1/2 inch that is moves in the master cylinder and lines but since it isn't and as long as its between 0 and prob 40 or 50 it doesn't mean a thing. why ? because people have been making hydraulic brake sytems for 90 years or so and they have it figured out pretty well. this is not uncharted territory.
my only point is this. you are dealing with a good quality product here built by a company that is supremely good at what they do. if you are beating your rx300 hard enough and often enough to run it out of brakes then , by all means, like any other mechanical system found wanting, design a system that will tolerate that level of load. i don't see that as the case here. i see this as a bog standard set up that you KNOW will go 100 k miles being used just as it is.
now... you can put back EXACTLY what came off and know EXACTLY where you stand and what you have OR you can throw a bunch of stuff at it that you DON'T know anything about.
i see absolutely no net gain here by going away from standard off the shelf stuff. just money going out the door for some brand name stickers.
01-21-08, 12:44 PM
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well, there are alot of good points. Orginally I was gonna buy the Acura MDX for my parent back in 02, but a good friend of mine that ownes 2 body shops in SF,CA had told me "of all the cars I worked with, lexus do have some good F*ing parts in them. Unlike other cars..." that was the reason I picked the underpowered 02 RX300, and now I sold the S500 for IS350 <too bad not IS-F, 416hp,371torque,8 speed tranny,4.6sec 60s drool...>. and YES I do think their OEM brake is awsome, but since 02, I'm sure there are better brake parts made available and made cheaper than OEM has to charge. lexus is best is makeing GREAT cars/suvs, but probably not THEee best at brake pads rotors brake fluids, and for sure not the speakers it came with lol. which is why I ask the experts here to give me their opinions and experiences with them. OK NOW, brake fluids... if I should to change/flush them every 2 years then I'm wayyy past that, I think I'll go with ATE superblue, 15 bucks not bad at all. pads I go with akebono proact, since tunedrx300 went with it before he change the BBK. rotors... rotora slotted or brembo blanks? my S500 came with slotted and drill stock, and the car is a bit lighter than the RX300. so this is the only part I'm kinda stuck with. so help me out Thx!
01-21-08, 01:52 PM
#27
well...
its not that hard a question. and a lot of the answers are " why do you care ? "
what is the wet boiling point of the factory fluid. answer: not positive but believe the feds demand .3 or better which i think is 325. REAL ans is ... who cares ? when was the last time you boiled the fluid on your vehicle ? if THAT answer is any time in the last lifetime , then yes... you have a material issue that needs to be addressed. if, on the other hand , you are like 99.9 % of the people that drive this vehicle and the answer is " never" , then the wet boiling point of the fluid is meaningless trivia because
( and here is the tricky part ) the toyota guys REALLY took the time to say to their supplier " hey, ya know what, lets not put some watered down slime in this $ 30,000 car ( or whatever they cost) and then have to spend a BILLION dollars recalling them and settling lawsuits. "
what viscosity is it ? since there is no flow in a brake system the viscosity is almost meaningless. true... if it were sae 90 gear oil, you would get some parasitic line drag as the fluid column moves the 1/4 or 1/2 inch that is moves in the master cylinder and lines but since it isn't and as long as its between 0 and prob 40 or 50 it doesn't mean a thing. why ? because people have been making hydraulic brake sytems for 90 years or so and they have it figured out pretty well. this is not uncharted territory.
my only point is this. you are dealing with a good quality product here built by a company that is supremely good at what they do. if you are beating your rx300 hard enough and often enough to run it out of brakes then , by all means, like any other mechanical system found wanting, design a system that will tolerate that level of load. i don't see that as the case here. i see this as a bog standard set up that you KNOW will go 100 k miles being used just as it is.
now... you can put back EXACTLY what came off and know EXACTLY where you stand and what you have OR you can throw a bunch of stuff at it that you DON'T know anything about.
i see absolutely no net gain here by going away from standard off the shelf stuff. just money going out the door for some brand name stickers.
its not that hard a question. and a lot of the answers are " why do you care ? "
what is the wet boiling point of the factory fluid. answer: not positive but believe the feds demand .3 or better which i think is 325. REAL ans is ... who cares ? when was the last time you boiled the fluid on your vehicle ? if THAT answer is any time in the last lifetime , then yes... you have a material issue that needs to be addressed. if, on the other hand , you are like 99.9 % of the people that drive this vehicle and the answer is " never" , then the wet boiling point of the fluid is meaningless trivia because
( and here is the tricky part ) the toyota guys REALLY took the time to say to their supplier " hey, ya know what, lets not put some watered down slime in this $ 30,000 car ( or whatever they cost) and then have to spend a BILLION dollars recalling them and settling lawsuits. "
what viscosity is it ? since there is no flow in a brake system the viscosity is almost meaningless. true... if it were sae 90 gear oil, you would get some parasitic line drag as the fluid column moves the 1/4 or 1/2 inch that is moves in the master cylinder and lines but since it isn't and as long as its between 0 and prob 40 or 50 it doesn't mean a thing. why ? because people have been making hydraulic brake sytems for 90 years or so and they have it figured out pretty well. this is not uncharted territory.
my only point is this. you are dealing with a good quality product here built by a company that is supremely good at what they do. if you are beating your rx300 hard enough and often enough to run it out of brakes then , by all means, like any other mechanical system found wanting, design a system that will tolerate that level of load. i don't see that as the case here. i see this as a bog standard set up that you KNOW will go 100 k miles being used just as it is.
now... you can put back EXACTLY what came off and know EXACTLY where you stand and what you have OR you can throw a bunch of stuff at it that you DON'T know anything about.
i see absolutely no net gain here by going away from standard off the shelf stuff. just money going out the door for some brand name stickers.
Do you know that in Europe, brake fluid must be inspected every year by law?
DOT standard is the minimum standard, brake fluid do boil because there are people who NEVER change the brake fluid.
Again, have you even researched on the safety effect of brake fluid with high $ of water? If you did not care to read the above link, here is another excellent article.
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf40142.htm
Excerpts
To determine the fluid's condition, you have to test it chemically, physically or electronically.
...
When this test method was used to check a fleet of 50 vehicles, 86 percent of the vehicles more than two years old showed dangerously low levels of corrosion inhibitor in the brake fluid - which is why many experts recommend replacing the fluid every two years for preventive maintenance.
According to one supplier of the ion detecting strips, "[B]probably 80 percent of the vehicles coming through a typical aftermarket brake shop will fail this kind of fluid test." Why? Because most have never had the fluid changed - even if the brakes have been serviced before.[/B**
...
According to a recent survey of BRAKE & FRONT END readers, brake fluid is flushed and replaced only 40 percent of the time when doing a normal brake job - and less than 15 percent of our readers say they routinely flush the fluid on every brake job!
...
When this test method was used to check a fleet of 50 vehicles, 86 percent of the vehicles more than two years old showed dangerously low levels of corrosion inhibitor in the brake fluid - which is why many experts recommend replacing the fluid every two years for preventive maintenance.
According to one supplier of the ion detecting strips, "[B]probably 80 percent of the vehicles coming through a typical aftermarket brake shop will fail this kind of fluid test." Why? Because most have never had the fluid changed - even if the brakes have been serviced before.[/B**
...
According to a recent survey of BRAKE & FRONT END readers, brake fluid is flushed and replaced only 40 percent of the time when doing a normal brake job - and less than 15 percent of our readers say they routinely flush the fluid on every brake job!
Good quality product? When does Toyota cares more about quality over profit? Prime example is OEM Goodyear or Bridgestone tires, they are terrible in snow, poor wear and designed for one thing: get customers out of dealers' doors.
If one does not care about safety, there is nothing others can do but to pray that they are not hit by cars with poor brakes.
Last edited by TunedRX300; 01-21-08 at 04:35 PM.
01-21-08, 04:48 PM
#28
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ignorant ? no. thats not what using the correct parts in the correct application is all about. why not carbon brakes on street cars ? f1 cars all have them . because on a street car they would never be hot enough to work.
with all due respect , tuned rx300, the notion that racing technology is as a matter of course better for the street is just plain stupid.
ignorance is re inventing the wheel when it is not neccessary to do so. its spending 30 bucks a pint for fliud that boils at 750 deg when it never gets over 225 in the real world. its OVERCOOLING the brakes so the pads never get to temp where they work or running pads so hard that that nice solid instant bite that you need on the street disappears.
your cynacism about oem may have some minor merit. they are , of course profit driven. but having said that, it must be equally obvious that the bean counters know full well like they live and breath that the price of a mistake both in hard cash and in market share is orders of magnitude greater than anything they can possibly save by being stupid and cheap.
so they leave it to the engineers... REAL engineers... guys that don't get their data from the newstand. the guys that actually know what they are doing to come up with the answers and then they produce a product to compete in the market...
and then you look at the objective performace of that product compared to others. not the marketing bull... what it really does... how long it really lasts...
toyota will be the number 1 auto manufacturer on the planet this year. they didn;t get there by being stupid or making a lot of mistakes. i worked on thousands of them as well as thousands of other manufacturers.
and based on that track record and that alone, i would trust their judgement in a heartbeat barring any SENSIBLE or quantifiable or identifiable reason not to.
in the case of THIS thread and THIS guys question, for me his answer is box stock factory pieces and pads and drive the car for another 100 grand and never look back. he hasn't indicated a single solitary circumstance where the factory stuff has failed to perform perfectly.
with all due respect , tuned rx300, the notion that racing technology is as a matter of course better for the street is just plain stupid.
ignorance is re inventing the wheel when it is not neccessary to do so. its spending 30 bucks a pint for fliud that boils at 750 deg when it never gets over 225 in the real world. its OVERCOOLING the brakes so the pads never get to temp where they work or running pads so hard that that nice solid instant bite that you need on the street disappears.
your cynacism about oem may have some minor merit. they are , of course profit driven. but having said that, it must be equally obvious that the bean counters know full well like they live and breath that the price of a mistake both in hard cash and in market share is orders of magnitude greater than anything they can possibly save by being stupid and cheap.
so they leave it to the engineers... REAL engineers... guys that don't get their data from the newstand. the guys that actually know what they are doing to come up with the answers and then they produce a product to compete in the market...
and then you look at the objective performace of that product compared to others. not the marketing bull... what it really does... how long it really lasts...
toyota will be the number 1 auto manufacturer on the planet this year. they didn;t get there by being stupid or making a lot of mistakes. i worked on thousands of them as well as thousands of other manufacturers.
and based on that track record and that alone, i would trust their judgement in a heartbeat barring any SENSIBLE or quantifiable or identifiable reason not to.
in the case of THIS thread and THIS guys question, for me his answer is box stock factory pieces and pads and drive the car for another 100 grand and never look back. he hasn't indicated a single solitary circumstance where the factory stuff has failed to perform perfectly.
01-21-08, 07:15 PM
#29
With all due respects, you seem to pick and read only those comments that support your opinion.
Did you even read the article links, table with $ per liter, even the explanation of how containments corrode brake components?
Also ask yourself,
1) When does the engineers make the final decision on products? Talk about marketing bull, Toyota is the champ to mark up inferior product with premium pricing.
2) When did Toyota become an oil and chemical company?
3) Correct parts for correct application? please explain why RX300 has the smaller sized brake rotors, fewer pistons than LS400, which has the same weight as the RX?
4) Did you know that in 2006, Toyota recalled more cars than it manufactured in that year? The Chairman admitted poor quality and the company was able to sustain its sales because its REPUTATION and "free pass" given by users.
5) Trust is cheap, did you VERIFY? if so, please provide an URL link as a start?
The poster who started this thread is asking for better products, and I answer it with my experience of a product, which is the best value for the given $. That is related to the VERY thread. Again, did you even read the first post?
Did you even read the article links, table with $ per liter, even the explanation of how containments corrode brake components?
Also ask yourself,
1) When does the engineers make the final decision on products? Talk about marketing bull, Toyota is the champ to mark up inferior product with premium pricing.
2) When did Toyota become an oil and chemical company?
3) Correct parts for correct application? please explain why RX300 has the smaller sized brake rotors, fewer pistons than LS400, which has the same weight as the RX?
4) Did you know that in 2006, Toyota recalled more cars than it manufactured in that year? The Chairman admitted poor quality and the company was able to sustain its sales because its REPUTATION and "free pass" given by users.
5) Trust is cheap, did you VERIFY? if so, please provide an URL link as a start?
The poster who started this thread is asking for better products, and I answer it with my experience of a product, which is the best value for the given $. That is related to the VERY thread. Again, did you even read the first post?
Last edited by TunedRX300; 01-21-08 at 07:19 PM.
01-21-08, 09:37 PM
#30
Moderator
Lets not turn the thread into an argument. We know that some among us have enviable brake setups.
The original question has been answered. Opinions has been shared and there is enough guidance for the poster to make up his mind.
I am interested in learning what choice was made and what improvements in actual stopping distances were achieved (with pads cold and red-hot). Last time when a member changed the brake setup, he never measured the before numbers.
Salim
The original question has been answered. Opinions has been shared and there is enough guidance for the poster to make up his mind.
I am interested in learning what choice was made and what improvements in actual stopping distances were achieved (with pads cold and red-hot). Last time when a member changed the brake setup, he never measured the before numbers.
Salim