Sway Bars for RX?
03-08-06, 12:07 AM
#61
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by TunedRX300
Market opportunity does not equal to make $. I do not have the core competency or existing infrastructure to launch an aftermarket car product. There is a distinct difference between creating value and capturing the value. The idea of iPOD has been around for a while, it is Apple that first made it RIGHT in order and make it $ off it.
I believe there is a lot of RX owners that are willing to spend $300 on a pair of well engineered sways. Outlaw engineering needs just 20 owners to develope an application for spacers. Unothodox Racing needs 30 owners to develope an application for under-drive lightweight crank pulleys. These are just ball park figures which these aftermarket specialists will reach breakeven point. Sways may require more engineering or raw material to make, we don't know.
But 20-30 owners out of how many RX300? The % must be around 0.xxx.
Just count how many members on this thread already interested. Anyone who drive a car with a propered engineered sway bar can tell you cornering is a "night and day" difference. Please also don't forget what the "S" stands for in "SUV"
I believe there is a lot of RX owners that are willing to spend $300 on a pair of well engineered sways. Outlaw engineering needs just 20 owners to develope an application for spacers. Unothodox Racing needs 30 owners to develope an application for under-drive lightweight crank pulleys. These are just ball park figures which these aftermarket specialists will reach breakeven point. Sways may require more engineering or raw material to make, we don't know.
But 20-30 owners out of how many RX300? The % must be around 0.xxx.
Just count how many members on this thread already interested. Anyone who drive a car with a propered engineered sway bar can tell you cornering is a "night and day" difference. Please also don't forget what the "S" stands for in "SUV"
This is why they haven't already been made I guess.
Last edited by DoubleWhoosh; 03-08-06 at 12:30 AM.
03-08-06, 10:23 AM
#62
Originally Posted by DoubleWhoosh
If 20 sets were able to be sold, I know I could do some convincing to get these made, but I still doubt that many people would step up. Price would be 499 but I honestly don't think it would pan out.
This is why they haven't already been made I guess.
This is why they haven't already been made I guess.
You may do incremental product plan, try out a rear sway first, if no one wants it, there is no additional effort and $ spend on doing the front. Half the pricing means owners do not have to pony up to test out a product, which means less risk for both seller and buyer and good to grow a customer base.
Last edited by TunedRX300; 03-08-06 at 10:42 AM.
03-08-06, 11:56 AM
#63
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by TunedRX300
This is a chicken and egg problem, without a product, people don't buy. You can see the interest level here, Lexmex, ACleanSC4, and I already showed interest, plus potential owner such as pcmw.
You may do incremental product plan, try out a rear sway first, if no one wants it, there is no additional effort and $ spend on doing the front. Half the pricing means owners do not have to pony up to test out a product, which means less risk for both seller and buyer and good to grow a customer base.
You may do incremental product plan, try out a rear sway first, if no one wants it, there is no additional effort and $ spend on doing the front. Half the pricing means owners do not have to pony up to test out a product, which means less risk for both seller and buyer and good to grow a customer base.
As far as what you are saying for owners to "test" a product, if something goes to market there should be no testing required. You either buy it or don't. At that point it should already be tested thoroughly and proven to be ready for production and sale.
Also, you can't just do a rear, and then decide to do a front if it works well. Sway bars are very critical suspension components and have to be matched so they work properly. A rear bar that works ok, probably wouldn't be right for a front/rear set. If either is right, the other is probably a pretty severe compromise.
This chassis is especially critical, as you don't want to be next to the other RX flipped over on pcmw's neighbor's lawn.
This is where this whole commotion came from, sway bars are a VERY important and substantial part of a vehicle's suspension. Upgrading them when the OE ones are very minimal can do a lot and surely won't do anything to affect ride quality. Disconnecting them is an excellent way to prove this. Springs and shocks are hardly as significant in this situation.
03-08-06, 01:15 PM
#64
Moderator
Guys, if you have a rough estimate of price, start a poll.
Till now the interested parties are less than what you can count on your finger tips.
Salim
Till now the interested parties are less than what you can count on your finger tips.
Salim
03-08-06, 02:36 PM
#65
Originally Posted by pcmw
I liked the "Toyota has billions of dollars so they shoulda made it better" (not exact quote). But I used to hear that alot when working on the hundreds of cars. Lexus built and marketed the RX to be the SUV that was not a TRUCK. It competed at first with the Exploder, 4runner, jeep and other truck based SUVS. I think they made it slushy on purpose. Now, by todays standard, aftermarket engineering has improved the ride quality and handling of cars (especially after the exploder kept rolling over). So that idea is simply not true. I would have to agree to disagree with that comment. No offense. Ford had alot of money too (not any more) and they still built terrible handling cars.
A sway bar is a huge factor in INCREASING ride quality where as it CHANGES the ride dynamic and does not Deteriorate the overall ride just CHANGES IT. To look at the FACTS here you would have to realize that the sway bar is built to effectively transfer the force more evenly accross the two wheels. The stiffer the bar, the more the two front wheels act in unison rather than independently. Hence the TRD ULTRA UBER SUPER STIFF bar in the Supra has a rigorous effect on the ride as it in essence unified the front wheels into a TRUCK like straight axle. If you think that a sway bar that is well engineered makes the ride WORSE. Then go unhook the two endlinks on your RX right now and drive around the block. The car will ride terrible and we all know the end result is you will likely flip the thing onto your neighbors lawn. Finally, let me add that THICKER bars are not always the necessary factor. STIFFER ones are the idea. For example, my SC300 has Supra factory sways on it that are not thicker but more solid and straighter in design anchoring more usable torque accross the wheels. This IMPROVED the ride dynamic of the car so much that my WIFE noticed (non factual info).
Last edited by TunedRX300; 03-08-06 at 03:29 PM.
03-08-06, 02:50 PM
#66
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by TunedRX300
Correct, I would love to see a stiffer bar without increasing the diameter. You brought a great point that shape of sway is also important. Just to compare: RX's rear sway has two 90 degrees bent angles and a horse shoe hop over the muffler to curve around. Acura TL's bent angle are 60 degrees and 15 degree curve to get around the exhaust pipe. This means Acura's rear sway design for a sedan is straighter than Lexus' design for a SUV, AND 4mm larger in diameter.
03-08-06, 06:12 PM
#67
Originally Posted by DoubleWhoosh
Some points of what you are saying is true, but remember there are 99-00 awd, fwd and 01+ awd, fwd. Four vehicles which means that you would need to sell a LOT of each!
As far as what you are saying for owners to "test" a product, if something goes to market there should be no testing required. You either buy it or don't. At that point it should already be tested thoroughly and proven to be ready for production and sale.
As far as what you are saying for owners to "test" a product, if something goes to market there should be no testing required. You either buy it or don't. At that point it should already be tested thoroughly and proven to be ready for production and sale.
I doubt rear sways for awd and fwd are different, no matter what years. This is from 2000 service manual, there is no specific mentioning of 4WD or 2WD. Just one drawing cover FWD and AWD.
If there is a difference service manual list them, for example
You can do part binning by going to www.rockauto.com, rear end link are the same across all years. I understand end links do not equal to sways, but don't different designs have different end links?
03-08-06, 06:25 PM
#68
Lexus Test Driver
They are all different in minor ways, I have already done the homework on this long ago. Plus with upgrading it becomes more critical to have the right sized front/rear bars.
Maybe 1 front bar can work for all of them, but I suspect there would still be 3 rear bars if not 4 to cover that whole generation of RX
The newer RX330 ones I haven't taken a look at, but those do ride much better and have much more control to start.
Maybe 1 front bar can work for all of them, but I suspect there would still be 3 rear bars if not 4 to cover that whole generation of RX
The newer RX330 ones I haven't taken a look at, but those do ride much better and have much more control to start.
03-08-06, 08:15 PM
#69
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Doublewoosh.
Forget the parts in the WAY. BUILT THAT BAR DEAD STRAIGHT out of Spring Steel. Then build aftermarket kits to move the OTHER PARTS. Lets just state was is MOST IMPORTANT here. HAHAH . Just kidding.
I just went looking at a new GS to add to the fleet on my driveway. You better get some PAID orders so you can build those bars. If this ends up like the other 40 group-engineer-buys then it will have 100 interested, 50 say they would buy, 30 prepay, 10 actually go thru with it.
I do NOT know how you make money at such specialized parts, but sure am glad YOU are here.
MW
Forget the parts in the WAY. BUILT THAT BAR DEAD STRAIGHT out of Spring Steel. Then build aftermarket kits to move the OTHER PARTS. Lets just state was is MOST IMPORTANT here. HAHAH . Just kidding.
I just went looking at a new GS to add to the fleet on my driveway. You better get some PAID orders so you can build those bars. If this ends up like the other 40 group-engineer-buys then it will have 100 interested, 50 say they would buy, 30 prepay, 10 actually go thru with it.
I do NOT know how you make money at such specialized parts, but sure am glad YOU are here.
MW
03-09-06, 04:30 PM
#70
Originally Posted by DoubleWhoosh
They are all different in minor ways, I have already done the homework on this long ago. Plus with upgrading it becomes more critical to have the right sized front/rear bars.
Maybe 1 front bar can work for all of them, but I suspect there would still be 3 rear bars if not 4 to cover that whole generation of RX
The newer RX330 ones I haven't taken a look at, but those do ride much better and have much more control to start.
Maybe 1 front bar can work for all of them, but I suspect there would still be 3 rear bars if not 4 to cover that whole generation of RX
The newer RX330 ones I haven't taken a look at, but those do ride much better and have much more control to start.
06-20-06, 05:14 PM
#71
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sway bars
I have 2 wheel drive 300 rx and would be happy to buy an increased size sway bar. They have been marketed for years for other cars and I can see no reason why no one has developed a stiffer bar for this vehicle. The handling of these cars need it, unless one is just happy to drive to the grocery store.
06-20-06, 10:05 PM
#72
Super Moderator
Originally Posted by richard ja
I have 2 wheel drive 300 rx and would be happy to buy an increased size sway bar. They have been marketed for years for other cars and I can see no reason why no one has developed a stiffer bar for this vehicle. The handling of these cars need it, unless one is just happy to drive to the grocery store.
Ask our fellow 1MZFE engine owners in the Camry, Solara and Highlander just how hard it is, especially the Solara group and it is really hard.
BTW, even though I live in Mexico my RX is Florida registered, great to see a fellow Floridian.
08-26-06, 07:22 PM
#73
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Sways
I would also be interested in buying a set for my SilverSport. But couldn't we get the same improvement in handling with a set of Eibach springs for about$250???
08-26-06, 08:58 PM
#74
SilverSport has the same sway as the regular RX. The difference of sway bar and spring were already discussed in previous posts.
08-26-06, 10:03 PM
#75
Super Moderator
I would still love to get a sway bar over springs.