Lexus RX300 2002 85k - Losing 1 quart every 750 miles
12-06-12, 04:35 PM
#76
Lexus Champion
yup, the narrow oil passages and head temps. Especially for those that use 87 octane fuel. it retards the timing (amongst other things) and raises the head temps due to the combustion being hotter. As I said once before on this board, I would never voluntarily retard my ignition timing for any reason....PERIOD.
12-07-12, 10:09 AM
#77
Driver School Candidate
Re-Engineered Valve Cover
The mechanic I am using for my engine work is a former Lexus mechanic and shop foreman. He stated that Lexus had a short lived program in which Lexus would replace the valve covers, PCV valve, and de-sludge the engine on the 3 liter V6 for some customers who qualified under warranty. Although this work did not pay as well because it was a warranty job, he was happy to do it because it kept him busy. Apparently Lexus/Toyota felt the valve covers and PCV valve contributed to the sludge problem.
He has his own shop, a great reputation, and his shop is very busy. Although I have only known him for a few months, we have a mutual friend whom we trust, that highly recommended him. There is a current post dealing with the re-engineered valve covers.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...lve-cover.html
He has his own shop, a great reputation, and his shop is very busy. Although I have only known him for a few months, we have a mutual friend whom we trust, that highly recommended him. There is a current post dealing with the re-engineered valve covers.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...lve-cover.html
Last edited by jolomo; 12-07-12 at 01:01 PM.
12-07-12, 03:27 PM
#78
Moderator
Other than the claim, there is no explanation of how pcv contributes to engine oil gelling. PCV sits in the vapor (gas) loop. A clogged PCV will generate slightly higher pressure above the valve cover area. Granted that can cause some malfunction in the vapor recovery system but engine oil gelling. Still trying to understand?
Salim
Salim
12-10-12, 01:58 PM
#79
Just let you guy know my recent findings. When I removed the spark plug from no 2. cylinder , I found a lot of white deposit on it and some oil residue on outside the spark plug. it seem like I found the reason why oil lost so much(a bad valve seal or worn ring).
So I test the compression of my cylinders, to my surprise, the compression look so good and there is no way the valve seal or ring is bad. (it's all bewtween 205-214 psi, based on manual 218 psi is the ideal value).
I'm really sunk in this mystery now. What the %^^&* happen? I believe that Toyota already know the reason but refuse to let's know to avoid a big recall. We only can keep adding oil and sit there wondering. I really hope that one day those big companys will pay for what they done to the consumers.
So I test the compression of my cylinders, to my surprise, the compression look so good and there is no way the valve seal or ring is bad. (it's all bewtween 205-214 psi, based on manual 218 psi is the ideal value).
I'm really sunk in this mystery now. What the %^^&* happen? I believe that Toyota already know the reason but refuse to let's know to avoid a big recall. We only can keep adding oil and sit there wondering. I really hope that one day those big companys will pay for what they done to the consumers.
12-10-12, 03:46 PM
#80
Moderator
tlee, I know and understand that you are having a problem, but this is not a prevalent problem.
Salim
Salim
12-12-12, 09:27 PM
#81
I did my long research on internet and gradually I realize this problem is related to PCV clog problem(clogged between baffle plate and valve cover). This also the major factor to the sludge problem(if it wasn't taken care at early stage). Enlight me if there is anything wrong, I already e-mail a couple guys stated that they changed the valve cover and problem solved, I need to know which valve cover cause the clog and how bad it is. Is it change the valve cover really solve the problem forever? I know my 02 RX have the new version of the valve cover but problem still there. I suspect that clog will be re-appeared after a period of time(the space between the valve cover and baffle is very small, especially the front one), I will post my finding after I test something in my car.
TL
12-12-12, 10:07 PM
#82
Moderator
Hi Salim,
I did my long research on internet and gradually I realize this problem is related to PCV clog problem(clogged between baffle plate and valve cover). This also the major factor to the sludge problem(if it wasn't taken care at early stage). Enlight me if there is anything wrong, I already e-mail a couple guys stated that they changed the valve cover and problem solved, I need to know which valve cover cause the clog and how bad it is. Is it change the valve cover really solve the problem forever? I know my 02 RX have the new version of the valve cover but problem still there. I suspect that clog will be re-appeared after a period of time(the space between the valve cover and baffle is very small, especially the front one), I will post my finding after I test something in my car.
TL
I did my long research on internet and gradually I realize this problem is related to PCV clog problem(clogged between baffle plate and valve cover). This also the major factor to the sludge problem(if it wasn't taken care at early stage). Enlight me if there is anything wrong, I already e-mail a couple guys stated that they changed the valve cover and problem solved, I need to know which valve cover cause the clog and how bad it is. Is it change the valve cover really solve the problem forever? I know my 02 RX have the new version of the valve cover but problem still there. I suspect that clog will be re-appeared after a period of time(the space between the valve cover and baffle is very small, especially the front one), I will post my finding after I test something in my car.
TL
Oil-vapor+fuel-vapor crust on top of valve cover and pcv valve and the pcv-valve pipe.
Oil gelling.
Unaccounted oil loss
Toyota/Lexus not doing a recall.
The fourth is easy. Lexus/Toyota has made a statement about the Oil-gelling and not the pcv-valve cover. There has been a design change, but what drove it ... we can speculate. How many vehicles has had the issue with clogged pcv-pipe? It does not seem to be a prevalent problems (imho). I would expect a CEL when the PCV stops working [can some one comment?]
One and two are different phenomenon. One is vapor and the other is liquid or thick liquid. PCV is at the top of the valve cover and oil getting way up there can happen only when the drain holes are clogged (engine would be seizing or about to seize).
Second has been discussed and discussed.
Third is being discussed here .. I dont have an answer. The possibilities are leak or being burnt. In your case there seems to be an evidence that it is being burnt ... from below the piston (rings) or above the piston (valve guide).
That is the limit of my knowledge. I know it does not amount much
When you venture to take the valve cover off (the rear 1-3-5 with the pcv valve), give it thought about removing the cowl and leaving the intake in there. ... we are waiting for some one to prove that this is a viable option.
Salim
Last edited by salimshah; 12-12-12 at 10:15 PM.
12-13-12, 12:55 PM
#83
There are at least four different discussions going on
Oil-vapor+fuel-vapor crust on top of valve cover and pcv valve and the pcv-valve pipe.
Oil gelling.
Unaccounted oil loss
Toyota/Lexus not doing a recall.
The fourth is easy. Lexus/Toyota has made a statement about the Oil-gelling and not the pcv-valve cover. There has been a design change, but what drove it ... we can speculate. How many vehicles has had the issue with clogged pcv-pipe? It does not seem to be a prevalent problems (imho). I would expect a CEL when the PCV stops working [can some one comment?]
One and two are different phenomenon. One is vapor and the other is liquid or thick liquid. PCV is at the top of the valve cover and oil getting way up there can happen only when the drain holes are clogged (engine would be seizing or about to seize).
Second has been discussed and discussed.
Third is being discussed here .. I dont have an answer. The possibilities are leak or being burnt. In your case there seems to be an evidence that it is being burnt ... from below the piston (rings) or above the piston (valve guide).
That is the limit of my knowledge. I know it does not amount much
When you venture to take the valve cover off (the rear 1-3-5 with the pcv valve), give it thought about removing the cowl and leaving the intake in there. ... we are waiting for some one to prove that this is a viable option.
Salim
Oil-vapor+fuel-vapor crust on top of valve cover and pcv valve and the pcv-valve pipe.
Oil gelling.
Unaccounted oil loss
Toyota/Lexus not doing a recall.
The fourth is easy. Lexus/Toyota has made a statement about the Oil-gelling and not the pcv-valve cover. There has been a design change, but what drove it ... we can speculate. How many vehicles has had the issue with clogged pcv-pipe? It does not seem to be a prevalent problems (imho). I would expect a CEL when the PCV stops working [can some one comment?]
One and two are different phenomenon. One is vapor and the other is liquid or thick liquid. PCV is at the top of the valve cover and oil getting way up there can happen only when the drain holes are clogged (engine would be seizing or about to seize).
Second has been discussed and discussed.
Third is being discussed here .. I dont have an answer. The possibilities are leak or being burnt. In your case there seems to be an evidence that it is being burnt ... from below the piston (rings) or above the piston (valve guide).
That is the limit of my knowledge. I know it does not amount much
When you venture to take the valve cover off (the rear 1-3-5 with the pcv valve), give it thought about removing the cowl and leaving the intake in there. ... we are waiting for some one to prove that this is a viable option.
Salim
Please see the post #59, seem like the clog of the PCV pipe(on front Valve cover,let fresh air enter the crank case) cause the no 2. cylinder flooded by oil. I have a similiar finding on my no.2 Cylinder(not flooded by oil but spark plug show a lot of oil burnt), then I checked my compression on all cylinders, to my surprise all within good range(205-214 psi), so I'm buffled.
Two days ago, I watched a TV motor show, a technician introduced a new funnel to fill oil,it sound very unrelated,right? just when I put my finger on the remote control(want to switch to other channel); the guy mention the baffle inside the valve cover make oil fill very messy and have a valve cover holding on his hand, it's so similiar to the toyota V6 valve cover,then I stop and watch carefully,it is the 1mzfe engine valve cover. Long story short, that guy strongly suggest that baffle plate is there for prevent oil loss and can reduce risk for sludge problem(if oil lost and not discovered soon enough), don't even think about remove it or bent it. That's their selling point for that new funnel!!
That suddenly enlight me to understand a lot of previous study on internet. Especially the #59 post is so resemble my car's finding, so I do a test on my pcv system to decide it's OK or not. I disconnect both ends on PCV system(fresh air inlet pipe and PCV valve) and connect a plastic pipe to fresh air inlet connector; I blow it by air gun, I found that air is steadly come out from other end. So I'm sure my PCV system is still flow thru. I need to know: is there a certain pressure(or vacuum) spec. need to be met? Or it's OK once air can flow thru, I can go to my next step. Thanks.
TL
12-13-12, 04:19 PM
#84
Moderator
I think we are not agreeing on what is gelling (your part) and how pcv valve malfunction can introduce oil in cylinder 2 (my part). Instead of rehashing lets move on.
PCV valve simple function is to take the vapors back to intake to be burnt. The device is a simple ball valve and typically a blow (from mouth) is enough to test one way flow. The air intake side is at atmospheric pressure (or slightly less), the other side has elevated temperature (expanding volume).
Salim
PCV valve simple function is to take the vapors back to intake to be burnt. The device is a simple ball valve and typically a blow (from mouth) is enough to test one way flow. The air intake side is at atmospheric pressure (or slightly less), the other side has elevated temperature (expanding volume).
Salim
03-18-13, 09:05 PM
#85
I think we are not agreeing on what is gelling (your part) and how pcv valve malfunction can introduce oil in cylinder 2 (my part). Instead of rehashing lets move on.
PCV valve simple function is to take the vapors back to intake to be burnt. The device is a simple ball valve and typically a blow (from mouth) is enough to test one way flow. The air intake side is at atmospheric pressure (or slightly less), the other side has elevated temperature (expanding volume).
Salim
PCV valve simple function is to take the vapors back to intake to be burnt. The device is a simple ball valve and typically a blow (from mouth) is enough to test one way flow. The air intake side is at atmospheric pressure (or slightly less), the other side has elevated temperature (expanding volume).
Salim
It's been a while(long story). Please read this article:http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h63.pdf
It's Toyota's official explanation of their PCV system. When intake hose plug, the vacumm increase and cause oil consumption(oil is suck into the cylinder head and burn out). Our mystery is where the plug happen? It's not the air intake hose(99% of the cases), it's the space between baffle and the valve cover.That's why change the valve cover solve most of the problems,Toyota know that long time ago. Otherwise, there shouldn't be a new design of valve cover.
For your oil gelling question, since oil consumption is high but the oil pressure warning light is not on until the pressure is very low(my car lost 2.5 qt. oil and light was not on,I only found that when I checked my oil). so, a lot of owners are keep driving their cars under low volume oil for a long time(The oil change place won't tell you how much oil they drain everytime and most of the car ownes don't check their oil level so frequent like us). Then what's next? Oil is getting gelling( keep running at low volume can decrease your oil quality and functions dramatically = same as you don't change your oil on time) and most of the warranty is expired at that time. Hope that can help us to have more technical ability to fight those big companies. I heard some cases same as mine and they have different brands.
03-18-13, 10:19 PM
#86
Moderator
Thank you for posting the article.
Salim
Salim
05-13-13, 03:15 PM
#87
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Replaced my rear valve cover
ok .. I finally got the part and got it replaced.
Part : 11201-0A060 rear valve cover assby;
I took some pics for the rear valve cover off .. will post soon. No sludge found. They looked clean - confirmed with the mechanic also.
The mechanic also recommended to replace the spark plugs at the same time. Took his advice.
Now is the waiting game - have to see if I am still burling oil.
Recap :
I cannot see smoke when I start the engine in the morning
There is no sludge in the front and rear assembly.
Losing oil - 3-5 Qurat between oil changes
Had switched to Synthetic (varying results with PP, Mobil-1, sometimes one burns less, sometimes other burns less - go figure)
I reset my MPG meter and I cam currently showing 23 MPG on Highway (was hovering around 19.2 average before). Will post more accurate MPG when I run this on Highway and Local.
I hope this is the end of my problems. I am currently at 99k.
Part : 11201-0A060 rear valve cover assby;
I took some pics for the rear valve cover off .. will post soon. No sludge found. They looked clean - confirmed with the mechanic also.
The mechanic also recommended to replace the spark plugs at the same time. Took his advice.
Now is the waiting game - have to see if I am still burling oil.
Recap :
I cannot see smoke when I start the engine in the morning
There is no sludge in the front and rear assembly.
Losing oil - 3-5 Qurat between oil changes
Had switched to Synthetic (varying results with PP, Mobil-1, sometimes one burns less, sometimes other burns less - go figure)
I reset my MPG meter and I cam currently showing 23 MPG on Highway (was hovering around 19.2 average before). Will post more accurate MPG when I run this on Highway and Local.
I hope this is the end of my problems. I am currently at 99k.
10-07-13, 11:27 AM
#88
Driver School Candidate
My girlfriend's 2000 RX300 is burning oil like crazy, no leaks, no smoke. 137k miles.
The engine burns all the oil after about 2000 miles, I probably add about a quart or two every 500 miles or so. I'm hoping the new valve cover + pcv valve will fix the issue. I have already had the front valve cover taken off to take a peek inside. There wasn't much sludge, I had it cleaned and put it back on.
I went to the Lexus dealer today and ordered the following parts:
12204-20040 PCV Valve $4.46
11213-0A010 Valve Gasket $13.26
11201-0A060 Valve Cover $190.66
12261-20091 Vent Hose $8.85
The sales guy at the dealer was really confused that I would buy a valve cover to fix an oil consumption problem, and he has never heard of the re-engineered cover, he went by the part numbers I gave him. I also printed out prices from an online retailer, he tried to match the prices as much as he could. I hope all the part numbers are correct, I got them from this forum.
I also have to check if my girlfriend had the timing belt changed, I'll have that changed as well if she didn't do it yet.
I am hoping these are all the parts I will need, anyone have any additional suggestions before I get started? I'll drop the car off at the mechanic next week. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.
The engine burns all the oil after about 2000 miles, I probably add about a quart or two every 500 miles or so. I'm hoping the new valve cover + pcv valve will fix the issue. I have already had the front valve cover taken off to take a peek inside. There wasn't much sludge, I had it cleaned and put it back on.
I went to the Lexus dealer today and ordered the following parts:
12204-20040 PCV Valve $4.46
11213-0A010 Valve Gasket $13.26
11201-0A060 Valve Cover $190.66
12261-20091 Vent Hose $8.85
The sales guy at the dealer was really confused that I would buy a valve cover to fix an oil consumption problem, and he has never heard of the re-engineered cover, he went by the part numbers I gave him. I also printed out prices from an online retailer, he tried to match the prices as much as he could. I hope all the part numbers are correct, I got them from this forum.
I also have to check if my girlfriend had the timing belt changed, I'll have that changed as well if she didn't do it yet.
I am hoping these are all the parts I will need, anyone have any additional suggestions before I get started? I'll drop the car off at the mechanic next week. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.
Last edited by xtwister16; 10-07-13 at 01:01 PM.
10-07-13, 12:43 PM
#89
Instructor
I just replaced the rear valve cover on my 1999 RX300 with the cover you describe. Yes it requires a new PCV valve and valve cover gasket; I did not need a new vent hose.
I wasn't burning oil - I was leaking oil, but very little of it appeared to be coming from the PCV valve. Principal reason that I replaced the entire valve cover was because it is not possible to replace the spark plug tube seals once they get baked in, and the new valve cover comes with them pre-installed.
I wasn't burning oil - I was leaking oil, but very little of it appeared to be coming from the PCV valve. Principal reason that I replaced the entire valve cover was because it is not possible to replace the spark plug tube seals once they get baked in, and the new valve cover comes with them pre-installed.
10-21-13, 09:34 AM
#90
Driver School Candidate
My girlfriend's 2000 RX300 is burning oil like crazy, no leaks, no smoke. 137k miles.
The engine burns all the oil after about 2000 miles, I probably add about a quart or two every 500 miles or so. I'm hoping the new valve cover + pcv valve will fix the issue. I have already had the front valve cover taken off to take a peek inside. There wasn't much sludge, I had it cleaned and put it back on.
I went to the Lexus dealer today and ordered the following parts:
12204-20040 PCV Valve $4.46
11213-0A010 Valve Gasket $13.26
11201-0A060 Valve Cover $190.66
12261-20091 Vent Hose $8.85
The sales guy at the dealer was really confused that I would buy a valve cover to fix an oil consumption problem, and he has never heard of the re-engineered cover, he went by the part numbers I gave him. I also printed out prices from an online retailer, he tried to match the prices as much as he could. I hope all the part numbers are correct, I got them from this forum.
I also have to check if my girlfriend had the timing belt changed, I'll have that changed as well if she didn't do it yet.
I am hoping these are all the parts I will need, anyone have any additional suggestions before I get started? I'll drop the car off at the mechanic next week. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.
The engine burns all the oil after about 2000 miles, I probably add about a quart or two every 500 miles or so. I'm hoping the new valve cover + pcv valve will fix the issue. I have already had the front valve cover taken off to take a peek inside. There wasn't much sludge, I had it cleaned and put it back on.
I went to the Lexus dealer today and ordered the following parts:
12204-20040 PCV Valve $4.46
11213-0A010 Valve Gasket $13.26
11201-0A060 Valve Cover $190.66
12261-20091 Vent Hose $8.85
The sales guy at the dealer was really confused that I would buy a valve cover to fix an oil consumption problem, and he has never heard of the re-engineered cover, he went by the part numbers I gave him. I also printed out prices from an online retailer, he tried to match the prices as much as he could. I hope all the part numbers are correct, I got them from this forum.
I also have to check if my girlfriend had the timing belt changed, I'll have that changed as well if she didn't do it yet.
I am hoping these are all the parts I will need, anyone have any additional suggestions before I get started? I'll drop the car off at the mechanic next week. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.
*UPDATE 11/21*
I drove the car now for a bout 1000 miles, and I can say that I'm pretty sure that the issue has been FIXED!
There seems to be very little oil consumption, it seems about ~0.5 quart was eaten up after the 1000 miles, so it looks like I'll be can drive the full 3000 miles without adding any oil at all. I'm going to add some Marvel Mystery Oil as well.
I'll follow up with another update in a couple months once I his a couple thousand miles.
Last edited by xtwister16; 11-21-13 at 06:37 AM.