YWW

The latest March issue of MT (page 47) in their "First Drive" article says the new RX400H has a whopping $5000 premium over the 330 with a new base price at $45,000. The combined (3.3L V6 engine and electric motors) max output is 268HP@5600. Curb wt is 4400 lbs and 0-60mph is 7.3 sec. EPA mpg for city/hwy: 30/26.

MT wrote: "Personal Finance 101dictates that paying the $5000 premium for a new Lexus 400h hybrid (over the cost of the RX330 on which it is based) to save $300 annually on gas is poor economics."

I don't know about you guys but $5000 premium is excessive in my book. I can buy 2500 gal of gas on that $5000 (assuming $2/gal). I was looking forward to getting the 400h and in fact I put my name at the local dealer wait list a few months back but I was not counting on this $5000 premium (I was guessing $2500 to 3500 premium). In my opinion I feel the $5000 is too much and I plan to remove my name off the dealer list.

HarrierAWD

FWIW, Car&Driver shows curb weight at 4,580 lbs. with 0-60 time at 6.9 seconds.

The appeal of the RX400h is not just fuel economy. It gives V8 like performance, even at high altitude thin air. The BMW X5 and Benz M-Class both have about $5,000 premium for the V8 models, with fuel economy of a garbage truck.

Please go ahead and remove yourself from the waiting list so I can get mine sooner.

VSsc400

iTrader: (1)

with 2500 gallons of gas and since I'm getting 19mpg combined avg on my current RX300 I would have to drive 47,500 miles to make up the $5000 difference.... doH!

Gojirra99

True. The idea of Lexus hybrids is not just fuel economy alone, but to give the car more power & still maintain pretty good fuel economy.

LexusPia

Actually the premium on the BMW X5 V8 over the I-6 is $11,000 and about $8,000 premium on the MB ML500 vs ML350. The ML500 is probably the closest in performance but it still beats out the RXh. However, the 2006 BMW and MB are all going 3-row seating whereas RX is still 2-row so they may not a good apple to apple comparison.

I agree with YWW that the $5000 premium seems high since Lexus was telling people at their shows that the premium on the h was estimated to be around $3500. There's nothing wrong if people are willing to pay that price. Our local dealer says there will not be any discount at all from the sticker when the h starts to come in due to the anticipated high demand. Another dealer I talked to in Chicago essentially said the same thing. This may mean a real good buy on the 330. I'm going to wait until the dust settles.

HarrierAWD

Actually it'd take about 148,000 miles to break even, assuming avg 28 mpg on the RX400h and $2/gallon. Here it is step by step.

Miles = X
X/28 + ($5,000 / $2) = X/19 (fuel used at 28 mpg plus 2,500 gallons = fuel used at 19 mpg)
X/28 + 2500 = X/19
2,500 = X/19 - X/28
2,500 = (28X-19X) / (19x28)
2,500 = 9X / 532
9X = 2,500 x 532
9X = 1,330,000
X =~ 148,000

Proof:
(148,000 / 19) x $2 =~ $15,580 (fuel cost at 19 mpg over 148,000 miles)
(148,000 / 28) x $2 =~ $10,570 (fuel cost at 28 mpg over 148,000 miles)
difference of about $5,000

- Harrier da Math Professor

indelible

How is the $5000 premium calculated? Do you tack it onto the $45000 price tag, so you would pay $50,000+tax and license?

HarrierAWD

The $5,000 premium is just an estimate reported by Motor Trend and Car&Driver. The final pricing is not set in stone. Good point about the tax incentive.

vicpai

....when you're looking at the $5,000 difference. The real difference is going to be SUBSTANTIALLY more. FYI, I can get a RX 330 here in the L.A. area for about $250 below invoice (see carsdirect.com link)....taking into account a base RX 330 all wheel drive.
That is a whopping $4,032 BELOW MSRP. So, basically you have to add this to the $5,000 difference (assuming dealers will not budge an inch off the MSRP for the hybrid)......So the real difference is $5,000 + $4,032 = $9,032!!!! .....simply NOT WORTH IT IN MY OPINION

Now it gets even better : sales tax @ 8.25% here in CA, on $9,032 is $745. Add this to the $9,032 and you have a TOTAL ACTUAL DIFFERENCE OF A SUPER WHOPPING $9,777 ......almost 10 grand ......WHAT A JOKE!!

AND THIS IS FOR A BASE RX!!!!!!! When you add various options (NAV, MARK LEVINSON etc.) the difference between MSRP and INVOICE becomes EVEN GREATER (try it in carsdirect.com and you'll see)......so maybe a real world difference in that case of something like 12 grand!!!! UNREAL!!

here's the prices for zip code 90717 as of 01/29/2005 for a base AWD RX 330

MSRP: $37,825
Invoice: $34,012
Carsdirect price: $33,762

http://www.carsdirect.com/build/opti...&restore=false

HarrierAWD

Are you saying a loaded RX330 would be 12 grand less than an RX400h? Doesn't make sense to me.

Remember the RX400h comes loaded with everything including Nav., except the overrated ML. Also keep in mind that the RX400h gives you V8-like power with 4-banger economy. I'd compare RX400h pricing against V8 versions of X5, M-Class, and FX45.

700t

Don't forget that even if you pay the extra $5000 to get theRX400H, you will get a portion of that money back when you trade in or sell.

Domo-Kun

$5000 premium? That is BS. Not worth it. If folks are so worried about V8-like performance actually go buy something with a V8. It would be more worthwhile to wait for the RX350 that will use the same Avalon 3.5 V6 rated at 280hp. Screw the hybrid.

spwolf

Actually 5k isnt that much... If Honda sells its Accord Hybrid at 5k premium, for meagre 16hp engine and mild-hybrid system, then I dont see why is wrong for Toyota to charge 5k for something that is substantially better.

What you get is V8 performance and good mpg. In fact, I dont think there are many SUVs that have cheaper V8 upgrades - X5, ML all have much higer premium for V8 models.

And hey, if you dont like it, sure take your name off the list - more of them for us who like it! :-)

claud

I must be stupid. My two previous RXs (98/99 and 2001) got 16 t0 17 mpg in town and 20ish doing 75mph on trips. With its 5th gear, I'm hopeing that my 05 RX will do a little better on trips.
The "H" sounds nice, but most of us don't need any more power than the standard RX. I towed my 2500 lb Mako with the old 300s and they did fine. My new 05 RX seem much more peppy. Why do you need more power ? A fine point was raised that at a $5000 premium, you have to put a bunch of miles on the "H" to recover the $$ difference. What about battery pack renewal? At some point, all battery packs have to be changed out. I'm sure the resale will be good since the dealers are screwing every dollar of profit out of the early buyers.
I thought about all this. I waited for the last days of the December sale and made my move. I'm very happy with my new 05 RX which I bought at a substantial discount..

spwolf

first of all, batteries are warrantied for 8 years or 160,000 miles.
2nd of all, as said previously, it is an performance upgrade that spends less fuel. If you were to buy it only because it saves fuel, it wont pay off in the USA because gas is still cheap. What you will get is ability to run 30ish mpg in town and 20insh on the highway, all at greater speed than before and while polluting a lot less than an Camry 4cly.

If you dont see the point in it, then you obviously are not type of buyer that it is meant for. On the other hand, there are plenty of people that want V8 power but dont want 14 mpg it will give back to them, for these people RX400h is an perfect choice.