4WD vs AWD & Snow/Chain Condition Question
03-29-06, 07:41 AM
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4WD vs AWD & Snow/Chain Condition Question
Hi we are going to Tahoe tommorrow. Is the AWD considered the same thing as 4WD when considering Chain Requirements? I have All Season Michelin Energy MXV4 S8's which supposedly are a 10 for Winter, not sure if I should pick up chains just in case.
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/wo.htm
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/wo.htm
03-29-06, 08:01 AM
#2
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What's the weather situation in Tahoe right now? Since it's late March I assume the mountain roads to Tahoe resort area is pretty cleared. If no CHiPs stop you for chains then the roads should be fine.
I have the same tires on my RX400h and they did a pretty decent job when I drove through the snow storm on 401 to the way to Toronto. Just avoid the snow drift and drive smoothly on snow covered roads, leave space between cars, and you should be ok.
I have the same tires on my RX400h and they did a pretty decent job when I drove through the snow storm on 401 to the way to Toronto. Just avoid the snow drift and drive smoothly on snow covered roads, leave space between cars, and you should be ok.
03-29-06, 08:03 AM
#3
check out Mr West's helpful note of factory recommendation from
http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums...pic=27968&st=0
http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums...pic=27968&st=0
A good indication of the lack of AWD capability of the entire RX (and HL) series is the fact that the factory recommends that tire chains be used ONLY on the front wheels. In point of fact tire chains cannot be used on the rear due to poor tire and suspension element clearances.
Anyone who will willingly drive ANY vehicle with tire chains only on the front in truly adverse conditions for any distance other than a long driveway must have a death wish.
Right in your own owners manual it states that an inordinate level of traction at the front versus the rear can too easily lead to loss of control. Keep in mind that a FWD vehicle with the engine at the front already has more traction at the front vs the rear so it doesn't take adding very much to become unsafe.
This statement is made in regards to having winter tires on the front and not the rear but then with a page or two all that is forgotten so they can tell you to use tire chains ONLY on the FRONT.
I could forgive them that provided a note of caution followed stating that maximum speeds with only front tire chains should be limited to no more than 10 MPH or 5 MPH downhill.
I put 1.5" wheel spacers all around on my 2001 AWD RX300 to provide the clearance necessary for rear tire chains and I carry two sets of chains during the winter months, first on the rear and then the front if needed. And yes, on an RX the rear chains provide more "drag" than drive but that is what is often needed most on really slippery surfaces.
Anyone who will willingly drive ANY vehicle with tire chains only on the front in truly adverse conditions for any distance other than a long driveway must have a death wish.
Right in your own owners manual it states that an inordinate level of traction at the front versus the rear can too easily lead to loss of control. Keep in mind that a FWD vehicle with the engine at the front already has more traction at the front vs the rear so it doesn't take adding very much to become unsafe.
This statement is made in regards to having winter tires on the front and not the rear but then with a page or two all that is forgotten so they can tell you to use tire chains ONLY on the FRONT.
I could forgive them that provided a note of caution followed stating that maximum speeds with only front tire chains should be limited to no more than 10 MPH or 5 MPH downhill.
I put 1.5" wheel spacers all around on my 2001 AWD RX300 to provide the clearance necessary for rear tire chains and I carry two sets of chains during the winter months, first on the rear and then the front if needed. And yes, on an RX the rear chains provide more "drag" than drive but that is what is often needed most on really slippery surfaces.
03-29-06, 11:32 AM
#4
MultiTasking Mom
we went to big bear a few weeks ago after they got 2 ft of snow, and chains were required on ALL cars, 4wd and otherwise (it was funny seeing big fat Hummers with chains on them). we did not have chains b/c before we left, the website showed 4wd w/ snow tires were acceptable. a bunch of cars turned around and went to the local chevron to get chains, and we bought some standard cable chains with tensioners.
we decided to put the chains on the rear - we did not read the manual and just decided that rear seemed more appropriate. i didn't even stop to think about differences in clearance between front/rear.
in any case, we saw MANY FWD cars with chains on the front slipping from a stopped position upon re-entering the road from the pullover where there was some slush and ice. when we pulled forward on the hill out of the turnout area, we had no slippage at all - i was pleased to say the least.
so off we went on our 25m trek up the windy mountain roads, max speed was probably 20mph, but average was somewhere between 10-15mph. same thing on the way back down.
the RX went in for regular service after that trip and nothing particular commented by the service advisor. later on i went to the garage after the car had been parked for about a week and noticed some shiny brass/rust color from the coil above the rear wheels. i took a closer look and then compared to the front. then i remembered we had used chains in the rear and now reading this thread, i realize that the clearance back could have been much better. BUT, the truth is i don't think the thing was grinding on there the entire time we where driving, but rather only when we hit these treacherous dips and holes that were created by packed snow and had not been plowed properly . they were extremely deep holes that caused the 4 of us to cringe (you could not see them well as the fog/snow rolled in and white roads were hard to see anything).
anyway, just wanted to share my experience in case you are all wondering. we had driven in 20x worse conditions to mammoth last year WITHOUT chains - the difference there is that Cal Trans doesn't require chains on 4wd w/ snow tires since the road is fairly level and straight on the 395. (even though there was more than 10" falling per hour on that day) the AWD did fine, the VSC kicked in once, that was it.
i will have my coils checked out next time at the dealer, although i am surprised they didn't mention it when the tech rotated the tires (it's pretty obvious, i can post pics of damage if anyone is interested). i don't think the damage is major, although i am more worried about rust damage, but i suppose at some point those things have to be replaced anyway...
we decided to put the chains on the rear - we did not read the manual and just decided that rear seemed more appropriate. i didn't even stop to think about differences in clearance between front/rear.
in any case, we saw MANY FWD cars with chains on the front slipping from a stopped position upon re-entering the road from the pullover where there was some slush and ice. when we pulled forward on the hill out of the turnout area, we had no slippage at all - i was pleased to say the least.
so off we went on our 25m trek up the windy mountain roads, max speed was probably 20mph, but average was somewhere between 10-15mph. same thing on the way back down. the RX went in for regular service after that trip and nothing particular commented by the service advisor. later on i went to the garage after the car had been parked for about a week and noticed some shiny brass/rust color from the coil above the rear wheels. i took a closer look and then compared to the front. then i remembered we had used chains in the rear and now reading this thread, i realize that the clearance back could have been much better. BUT, the truth is i don't think the thing was grinding on there the entire time we where driving, but rather only when we hit these treacherous dips and holes that were created by packed snow and had not been plowed properly . they were extremely deep holes that caused the 4 of us to cringe (you could not see them well as the fog/snow rolled in and white roads were hard to see anything).
anyway, just wanted to share my experience in case you are all wondering. we had driven in 20x worse conditions to mammoth last year WITHOUT chains - the difference there is that Cal Trans doesn't require chains on 4wd w/ snow tires since the road is fairly level and straight on the 395. (even though there was more than 10" falling per hour on that day) the AWD did fine, the VSC kicked in once, that was it.
i will have my coils checked out next time at the dealer, although i am surprised they didn't mention it when the tech rotated the tires (it's pretty obvious, i can post pics of damage if anyone is interested). i don't think the damage is major, although i am more worried about rust damage, but i suppose at some point those things have to be replaced anyway...
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