mandyfig

It is all the philosophy of teh design, GMan is probably right, the target audience in the middle age luxury and comfort seeking set. Less of the speed trip.

TunedRX300

I think we have gone far off topic from just discussing an aftermarket dual exhaust. Interestingly, at another Lexus forum, folks have used the same argument "RX is not a Porsche" and "2xxHP is more than enough", after someone posted about a dual exhaust on the RX. So what anulex feels is fairly accurate.

Lexus/Toyota has done well, just replaced GM as the global volume leader. But one must be very careful when selecting a marketing strategy that is very different than any other competitor: it must pan out in the FUTURE.
I see Lexus is a great brand that holds two advantages: perceived reliability and luxury. Those two key areas draw more sales to Toyota/Lexus than anything else.

When I say perceived, it is not a slam on Lexus but that is exactly what you want consumers to believe whether real reliability and luxury are achieved.
However, just be careful when the public believe someone else is more reliable and other competitors have out-do the luxury part. Then who else can Lexus appeal too?
As GM found out, it is much harder to maintaine the leadership. You think that is not possible? Watch out the Chinese, but that is another topic...

mandyfig

I fight the battle every single day I come to work. Trying to keep the jobs in the US instead of shipping them to Mexico, China and now Eastern Europe. Innovation, technology must come from us, the US of A.

AM1

iTrader: (6)

I used to always say good things about lexus/toyota.....now the more problems i have i realize that lexus does whatever they feel like when they make their cars and because of people blindly following them, they keep making cars. They always do the opposite of other cars in its class. I cant wait to get rid of this rx when the lease is up. that is if the tranny doesnt fall apart by then

geko29

How much power SHOULD the RX have? The MDX has 300hp, but weighs an extra 700lbs, so its 0-60, quarter mile time and trap speed are identical. So the MDX is underpowered too, and at a 2mpg penalty compared to the RX.

So let's see what else is in the class. The X5 3.0i makes the same 0-60 and quarter times as the RX/MDX, and same 17mpg as the MDX. The 4.8is is quite a bit quicker, but also costs $20k more and gets 15mpg. If the RX cost even $10k more than it does, I'm sure it'd be quite a bit quicker. But that's not its market.

Then you have the Mercedes ML-class. The RX positively SHAMES the 215hp 3.0L diesel (21mpg) and the 268hp 3.5L (17mpg), beating them both to sixty by a full second. The 5.0L version has 302hp and weighs 900lbs more than the RX, but the massive torque of its V8 makes it a bit quicker nonetheless. Unfortunately, it also costs $15k more than the RX and gets 14mpg. The 503 AMG 6.3L is quicker still, at a base price WELL over double the RX, and gets 12mpg.

Then you have the Porsche Cayenne. The RX stomps all over the 290hp V6 base version, is three tenths slower to 60 than the $20k more expensive 385hp S model (which gets 13mpg), and is absolutely no contest for the 500hp Turbo at damn near triple the price and 12mpg.

Then just some quickies: The RX positively BRUTALIZES the Land Rover LR2, beating it in 0-60 and the quarter mile by a full TWO SECONDS. It's over a second quicker in both times than the V8 LR3 (14mpg). It's quicker than the $20k more expensive Range Rover Sport 4.4L V8 (14mpg), but .3 second slower than the $33k more expensive supercharged model (13mpg). The FX35 is three tenths slower and gets only 16mpg. The FX45 is quite a bit quicker, but costs $13k more and gets 14mpg.

Everything is a compromise. More power/faster vehicle both costs more and gets worse mileage. Lexus has chosen a particular balance, that's right for quite a few people and not for some others. Exactly how much power does the RX need, and how much more does it need to cost before it prices out its primary customer base?

mandyfig

Balanced opinion, I say! Good summary! Now I know stuff.

TunedRX300

As I posted before, no one is able to drive around at peak hp at one particular RPM. Peak is not as useful as how power is distributed at the entire band.

For example, GS350 RWD's 2gr-fse is 303HP @ 6200 RPM, GS430 has the old 2UZ v8, peak rated 290hp @ 5600 RPM. One would think the GS430 is slower because it is also 44 lbs heavier, yet Lexus reports the same 0-60 time: 5.7 s
http://www.lexus.com/models/GS/detai...fications.html

Alse be careful to compare 0-60 time. Are same driver, track used? Test results are comparable only when test conditions are same or similiar, which are usually true if the same magazine or manufactor performs these tests on multiple cars/models.

Don't forget to compare RX350 with its sedan cousin ES350, same 2g-fe V6 engine but which car is heavier, less aero-dynamic, and supposed to tow and carry more passengers? Is the ES is over-powered or RX under-powered, according to Lexus' choice of engine and application of power generated?

harleydjce

Interesting. I had an RX330 (First Series) and only recently traded it on an RX350. I didn't even look at another Marque. Not having a Manual Option is no issue for me. I live in the city and you simply wear your leg out on the clutch! I have had enough German cars to know that I won't buy another one, particularly any BMW or Mercedes (Audi is OK but read on). While German vehicles drive well etc, the quality and service that you experience from German car makers is simply not in the same class as Lexus. The Germans are also masters at getting you to pay for "extras" that should be standard for the price you are paying (You want wheels with that X5 Sir?) I pay cash for my cars and turn them over every 4 years and the only time that I see the inside of a Lexus dealership is when I do the deal. This is my 3rd Lexus and I will not go back to German. Once bitten, twice shy. This is not to say that Lexus is infallible. The twin exhaust looks cool but is there a real benefit beyond that?

TunedRX300

Trying to pull the thead back on topic
Personally I would not buy these dual exhaust because they carry too much weight. If I want to get rid of the restrictive stock muffler, just buy a single stainless muffler with a mendral bent and straight through porferated pipe w/ bigger diameter.

Now, off topic again:
BMW and MB are not reliable brands, but Porsche just beat Lexus in 2006 JD Power IQS. This is a place that used to be RESERVED to Lexus.
Look who is ahead of Toyota and just behind Lexus at 3rd place? Hyundai.
Some argue this not long term quality but it is Hyundai that leads the industry with 10 year 100K miles warranty.

This is exactly what I mean by public believing someone else is more reliable. In fact, reliability is more important to Lexus because barrier to achieve is much harder than luxury. But that barrier can be overcome, we already have a German brand that beat Lexus and a Korean brand beating Toyota.



I am not a Lexus basher, just recent data show that Lexus advantages are slowing fading away...Owners are loyal but for how long?

The G Man

It is very hard to stay on top and I am not even sure if Lexus / Toyota wants to be on top. BTW Initial quality and long factory warrenty has nothing to do with relieability.

anulex

Off topic again. I am not a big fan of the 'Initial quality standard.' Having a car 3 - 4 years later that still runs like new, is what really is important to me. As someone indicated 'percieved' quality is wath lot of people measure. You buy a lexus u have a higher expectation that you would of a Kia. You buy a hyundai and u r happily supprised with some of the features the car has. In other words, people who buy hyundai's tend to be more easily satisfied becuase of how much they spent. If i spend 10K on my car i can live with a little trip to the dealer now and again. However, if i spend 30K, the only thing i expect to go to dealer for, is to change the oil. The luxury buyer is usally more picky and therefore complain more. The regular buyer reserve complaints for the bigger items. The luxury buyer compalins b/c the window goes up to slowly. The regular buiyer complains becuse the window doesnt go up at all. The luxury buyer complains becuase the leather seats arent soft enough. The regular buyer, complains because the seat wont adjust.
However, i can tell u this one of the thing that Lexus has over Acura is the service dept. When i go to Lexus, u would think i am the President. Mr This, would like a beverage? And they practically escort u to the waiting room and make sure u r ok. When i take my Acura for service, its like they are paying me to service my car.

The G Man

You are so right perception is 90% of the work. Lexus, over the years, has built a good reputation for reliability and good dealer service. I also agree with the Acura service department. They will nickel and dime you to death, they will refuse or put up a fight for every single warranty repair. The European service department is just as bad.

Orzel

iTrader: (1)

Agreed about initial quality not being a valid measure of reliability. Our RX (and IS for that matter) have been trouble free since delivery. We have had zero warranty issues. Between my wife and myself, we have had 13 Toyota's (that's not counting the Lexus models we have had) and not one was in for warranty repairs. I'd say that long term reliability is superb, at least for us.

anulex

If it was wasnt for the lexus service, i would have gotten an MDX. I am ver partial to Honda Motors. I debated and debated before getting my RX, i am happy with the lexus Service.

vlamos

This thread started off by some pics on twin exhausts and has since moved way off from the original topic. Among all the cars I have owned in my lifetime I have owned 3 different model SC400 Soarers which were full Japanese imports and have just recently purchased a current model RX350 sports luxury pack. Like most of you I too have had my fill of locally produced cars and other imported models for that matter. Having said that, I am very much aware that the Lexus is a superior car in all aspects of build quality, lasting power and value for money....that to me is more important that some specs on paper that might indicate that some other SUVs might be split second quicker :-)