sdbrandon

Saw an MDX today. They are growing on me.

The interior is definately cutting edge compared to the RX.

The front end does not look that bad now that I looked at it again. The gray plastic will help thwart off rock chips, etc.

If I had to choose, I would take less gas mileage and the MDX.

Of course, I may change my mind agian next week.

I was considering an X5. But they are full of bugs this year. Not to mention several complaints about issues that won't be addressed any time soon.

i.e. Tranny shifting, rear view camera is bad design, rust on running boards after a month, etc.

Kan-O-Z

Sorry to tell you this but the Camry/Avalon V6 will beat ALL V6 SUVs and MOST V8 SUVs out there period. So no need to say the RX350 is slower than a Camry, so is everything out there! Not only that, the Camry and Avalon will out handle and out brake pretty much every SUV out there. Not only that, the Camry and Avalon do this while sipping on fuel at 31 mpg on the highway! That's the beauty of a sedan. Don't buy an SUV unless you really need one.

Kan-O-Z

TunedRX300

That is exactly what I mean by RX350 is a market following product. Lexus designed it to do what almost everyone else does and not to do anything innovative. How can one claim RX350 is innovative when it has no feature or design that break the industry norm?
1998 RX300 was a market leading product design because no SUV drove like a car, every SUV drove like a truck. That was innovative.
A SUV should perform better than a family sedan, what is S in SUV stand for again? If Toyota believe 2gr-fe has sufficient power for Camry V6, then it is underpowered for the RX350.

Kan-O-Z

You will notice that NO manufacturers put their highest hp/displacement engine in their SUVs. Acura sure doesn't either. Lexus is coming out with the new LX570(5.7L V8) which doesn't really have much more hp than the LS460(4.6L V8). So what gives?

None of us are engine designers but it's not just as simple as put the highest hp/displacement engine in an SUV. For instance BMW has a 3.2L that puts out 333hp but you won't find anything close to this in the X3 or X5. Honda has a 2.0/2.2L engine that puts out 240hp which isn't matched in any SUV or minivan until you nearly double the displacement.

SUV engines are more concerned with torque and low end power. They are also concerned with durability under heavy load such as towing. That's why you see engines in SUVs that could be made to put out more power but don't. They are tuned for the SUV application. Lexus 5.7L could easily put out 500+hp when their 4.6L puts out nearly 400hp.

Perhaps the non-direct injection lexus 3.5L is better geared for the SUV application. Perhaps it's more durableunder load, perhaps it's got more torque at lower RPM.

None of us know but I am simply stating an observation that ALL SUVs exhibit. The RX is no exception. By your argument the MDX should have more than 300hp with a 3.7L when the RL can do 300hp with a 3.5L...but the 3.7L in the Acura MDX has the same horsepower as the 3.5L in the RL. Even the new TL-S has like 286hp with a 3.2L...so the MDX has only 14 more hp with an entire half liter more. By your terms the MDX is low tech too

Kan-O-Z

Kan-O-Z

No they shouldn't. The laws of physics really work against you in an SUV. Lets see, a typical SUV will weigh 1,000 more lbs than a sedan. A typical SUV will be jacked up with high center of gravity making it awful for handling and increasing roll over. A typical SUV has horrible aerodynamics as compared to a sedan. They are even less safe than a sedan because they can't manuever like a sedan and they roll over easier. Once again, if you don't have to buy an SUV, don't. They are really not good vehicles in general. The newer crossover SUVs tries to be more like a sedan for all these reasons...but the laws of physics are against you in an SUV no matter which way you look at it.

By the way the 0-60 of the Avalon/Camry V6 is 6.0 seconds with 31 mpg. The numbers speak for themselves. I would say only the Porsche Cayenne Turbo or BMW X5 4.8L can beat this type of performance and that's with 14 mpg.

Kan-O-Z

TunedRX300

Kan-O-Z,
Please don't take my comment personally as I never intend it to be. However, I kindly request you to double check your comment before posting. Statement such as
you can verify it by going to www.acura.com, it is a pretty quick check.

Yang1815

iTrader: (1)

I don't think the Sport in the SUV is related to performance...

Here's the definition from Wikipedia:
"A sport utility vehicle, or SUV, is a passenger vehicle which combines the towing capacity of a pickup truck with the passenger-carrying space of a minivan or station wagon together with all or off road ability."

It's not meant to out-perform/out-maneuver/out-handle a car.

Kan-O-Z

It's ok. Nothing personal. We're just discussing here. Let me explain what I meant.

Honda S2000 - 240hp/2.0L = 120hp/L
Acura TL-S - 286hp/3.2L = 89.3 hp/L
Acura RL - 300hp/3.5L = 85.7 hp/L
Acura MDX - 300hp/3.7L = 81 hp/L

As you can see, the MDX is hardly the 'highest tech' engine. If they ever bump the RL to 3.7L, you can bet it'll be making more power than the MDX 3.7L (Just like how the Lexus IS/GS 3.5L makes more hp than the RX 3.5L). The MDX just happens to be Acura's largest engine so that's why it appears the MDX has the most horsepower but in reality it's making the least for it's size.

Kan-O-Z

Kan-O-Z

Yes I agree. It's 'Sport Utility Vehicle' which I think means that it's sporting in an outdoors way such as offroading, and hauling. It definitely is a misleading name. By the way, BMW calls it SAVs for Sport Activity Vehicle.

Kan-O-Z

TunedRX300

Kan-O-Z,
I think you miss the point, engine should be designed to accomplish its mission. It is pretty simple, even for non-performance oriented application such as family sedan, mini-van, or XXX, a heavier car that hauls more payload needs a more powerful engine. It is simple physics, more power is needed to push more mass to achieve the same speed given same amount of time.

If one wants to design a SUV that perform on a level similiar to GS/IS, even more powerful engine is needed. That is what Porsche has done. Porsche is an innovative performance leader in luxury SUV: it is the JD Powers IQS reliability leader, always has the legendary performance, and now with luxury and comfort.

Acura does not have the "wow" that Porsche has, but at least it has the right intention of putting the biggest displacement and most powerful V6 engine into the new MDX. Why? because most powerful engine fits the mission of delivering power for the heaviest car in Acura's lineup.

Circle back to the claim that RX350 is innovative, where is the innovation, product wise, outside of Lexus' brand and reliability, neither of which is specific to the RX.

TunedRX300

Nor does Sport stands for lack of performance or Slow either. In a general Wikipedia definition of sport, words such as competition, outcome resulting from performance (winning and losing), strength, power are used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport

SUV is not meant to out-handle cars, but check it out the skid pad # of MDX and head to head handling test done by popular car magazines. SH-AWD enables MDX to out maneuver cars, that is how an innovative SUV should accomplish to be a market leading design.

LexFather

No, Acura misses the point again. The MDX is big, it needs a V-8 as the RL, at least as an option. THey need some low end torque and a nice flat powerband.

Their V-6s advertise 300hp but accelerate as if they had 220hp.
The MDX is a sohc, the RX a dohc.
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2610b.shtml

0-60 in 8.1 seconds. Its 300hp in name only.
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/rx350/2007/review.html
New for 2007, the Lexus RX 350 offers more power with a 3.5-liter, V6 engine that kicks out 270 horsepower and can go from 0-60 miles per hour in 7.3 seconds

The G Man

The sales number speaks for itself, the RX is still the current leader even as it coming to the end of its design cycle. That is saying something, Lexus is doing something right. Most people who buy SUVs in this price range don’t care about 0-60 time. All they care about is luxury and that the SUV has enough passing power, which the RX does.
Lexus has always been a conservative company. They design suv that is good quality and reliable, not full of gadgets of space ship like. They have done their market research, this is what majority of their buyers are looking for Most RX owners don’t care if their SUV can out-perform a Corvette or not, nor do they care if their RX is half of second slower than their competitor. Most Lexus owner dont even know what skid pad means.

TunedRX300

Exactly, the clientel that Lexus is after do not care about performance and Lexus design its non-hybrid SUV (e.g. RX) accordingly to make $.

TunedRX300

1sick,
I post this earlier in early in the thread (wow it is getting too long!): one can not compare 0-60 of setup A vs setup B. Track condition and driver can affect the final results, esp 1/10 difference is huge. This is why magazine use the same track, same driver to yield meaningful head to head competition results.
Also no one can drive around at one RPM. Yes entire RPM band must be considered, how crank power is delivered to the wheels, then how that whp is used to push the car. This is the reason GS350 has the same 0-60 time as GS430 (both are Lexus official #s) even though 2gr-fse has the peak HP advantage over the older V8.