The G Man

I drove the older X5 before the re-design and the X5 handle better than my old Acura TL

Kan-O-Z

The X5 may 'feel' like it ouhandles the TL but I highly doubt a nearly 5,000 lbs (high off the groud, high center of gravity) vehicle can outmanuever a 3,000lbs(low to the ground, low center of gravity) vehicle. Perhaps your old TL had worn out suspension which can kill the handling of a vehicle.

If the same or comparable suspension/wheel setup is used in a car and an SUV, the car will always win in handling. If the same or comparable engine is used in a car and an SUV, the car will always win in acceleration and top speed. It's the laws of physics. I don't care if you are driving a Cayenne Turbo, you still can't overcome the laws of physics.

Kan-O-Z

mandyfig

Car and SUV comparison is not quite apples to apples. hence you see a lot of new CROSSOVER series....trying to get the best of the 2 platforms merged into one type of vehicle.

The G Man

Yeah, you guys were right. The BMW X5 4.8is' skidpad was test at 0.79 g and the TL is 0.81 g. Still pretty for a SUV.

Kan-O-Z

The X5 4.8 is the top of the line X5 with upgraded wheels, suspension, etc. Now that is being compared to a 'regular' TL. If you do the same 'treatment' to a TL, say TL-S or something, the TL will blow away the X5.

I bet the TL rides a whole lot better than an X5 too. For any SUV to approach a car's handling, the suspension and wheels have to be stiffened up a LOT producing a ride that is much worse than a car.

Ultimately, the X5 would roll over much quicker than a TL once both cars have surpassed their limits.

Once again the beauty of cars Cars = great performance, great fuel economy, great ride, great handling, great braking, often time better in accidents too.

Kan-O-Z

Kan-O-Z

Yes you are right. Engineers have realized the advantages of a car and have realized that 99% of people will not off-road beyond a bit of grass here and there and some snow. For this reason, Crossover SUVs are like 'super cars'. It's a good thing. Although they still do not achieve what a good sedan does.

Kan-O-Z

The G Man

I agree, that why I dont understand people who buy SUV and try to turn it into a performance car.

Kan-O-Z

You've hit the nail on the head!

This is the genius of Lexus when they created the RX. The RX does exactly what this category of vehicle was made to do. It's not a confused vehicle, it's doesn't try to be something else...if you want something else you're better of getting that something else. This is why the RX is the class leader and class innovater. This is why the RX sells better than anything else out there.

Imagine if you were designing a limo. Would you try to make it do what it should do like have style, class, comfort, luxury, ride...or would you try to make it corner like a small car and accelerate like a Ferrari? When cars try to do something they were not meant to do, not only do they not succeed very well in their mission, they also lose what they normally would have had. Thus a 'confused' vehicle is good at neither what it should be good at nor what it's trying to be good at.

Kan-O-Z

TunedRX300

By the same token, about 10 years ago, people don't understand why would anyone want to turn a truck into a SUV that drives like a car. "Hey, you got an ixxxt here driving a FWD truck called RX300. Got some syyyd features such as a roofrack that he never uses and a soft suspension that is only good for pretending to go offroad." Look where we are today.

You have to realize the market doesn't hold the opinion of selected few. For Lexus, Acura, it is all about who is your cliente, what product to design, and sell at what price point. More importantly, a company can not to be complacent of result of yesterday and today, but make sure that success can be duplicated tommorrow in a dynamically changing market.

Could you name one import luxury brand that does not include performance with luxury? If performance is never going to matter to consumers, why would Lexus bother with a V6, Harrier has a V4 option in Asia that drives around fine.

mandyfig

There is a delicate balance of options that determine what perception will be for the consumer. This is the game and successful companies like Lexus-Toyota is very good at it. This is the part that makes it exciting. Are you tickled when you buy something that you find so good and so right? For the money that you dropped? The Game!

Kan-O-Z

Performance should be incorporated into a luxury SUV or car as long as it doesn't interfere with the car's 'mission'. This mission is not defined by the manufacturer(although the manufacturer may think it is). It's defined by the type of car, how it will be used and the clientelle buying the car.

By my previous example of a limo, the mission of a limo is to be a transport that is high class, highly stylish, highly luxurious often bringing the ambience of a bar/lounge, very spacious inside to accomodate people inside.
In this example, no one is saying that since this is not a performance car, you should stick a 4 cylinder in a limo. Go ahead put a V10 which will actually add to the smooth luxury of the car as long as the engine is quiet.

BUT the minute you put on summer racing tires, track suspension, loud sporty exhaust, loud intake, spoiler, other racing and high performance parts, THIS is absolutely taking away from the experience of a limo. This is not the mission of a limo.

I am all for good engines. In a luxury car a strong engine can actually make the car safer giving it passing ability and ability to get out of it's own way. Lexus has recently been outdoing themselves....it seems that every new engine is bigger, more powerful and sips less fuel than the one it replaces. The RX350 engine is nearly 50hp more than RX330 and has better fuel economy than RX330. Upgrading to the new engine did not take away from the luxury of the car.

Kan-O-Z

The G Man

Good post Kan, I guess thats why Lexus/Toyota spend more money on market research any any other car manufacturer.

mandyfig

Then there's the marketing side of things, which sometimes do not match the OEM's vision and goal. Toyota and Honda have been very strict in what kind of propaganda marketing folks are allowed....hence you see the crappy ads from....you know who.

Felix

IK its a old post, This^^^^ I find its great that Toyota tried to keep the RX a 2 row, yeah they did have a extended gen4 version for a few yrs, but dropped it.....

Margate330

For sure!

A third row would be tight if even possiblr and the dang seats will always be in my way when I want to put something in the back.

Seats take up room and not much of it already behind the 2nd row.