Poor Quality
#76
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Toyota blames rapid growth for quality problems
The Associated PressPublished: March 13, 2008
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TOKYO: The president of Toyota Motor acknowledged Thursday its rapid global growth was partly behind an increase in quality problems in recent years.
The company has improved quality controls and is sticking to its sales targets, including those in North America, despite worries about a credit crunch and a slowdown in the auto market, said the president, Katsuaki Watanabe.
Speaking at the Japan National Press Club, Watanabe said the reasons behind the defects were varied, involving development, design, production, suppliers and maintenance.
But Watanabe said that at least some of the problems, including time pressures and shortage of experts, stemmed from the company's huge growth in recent years. "That is not zero," he said, referring to quality problems rooted in Toyota's expansion.
Jim,I've had Toyota vehicles for years and they were a better built vehicles in the past.
My list price $30K '07 Camry was a POS.I hated the car.I explained the issues I had in this thread.
My IS had issues.Minor issues like rattles,creaks but issues.Also had a rear suspension issue when I traded the car in.
I figured I'd give Lexus another shot and buy a GS.
Again,my Lexus service advisor said I'll be getting the dash rattles and creaks that have been a problem the last three years in the GS when the cold weather arrives.
My $52460 list GS.
The RX is a lease so I'm not that **** about the vehicle.If there is a problem,I'll get a loaner and save some mileage.![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I treat it like a rental which it is.Don't buy it when I turn it in.![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
The internet is full of article on Toyota's decline in quality.
Toyota execs admit that fact and say they're taking steps to turn it around.
The Associated PressPublished: March 13, 2008
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TOKYO: The president of Toyota Motor acknowledged Thursday its rapid global growth was partly behind an increase in quality problems in recent years.
The company has improved quality controls and is sticking to its sales targets, including those in North America, despite worries about a credit crunch and a slowdown in the auto market, said the president, Katsuaki Watanabe.
Speaking at the Japan National Press Club, Watanabe said the reasons behind the defects were varied, involving development, design, production, suppliers and maintenance.
But Watanabe said that at least some of the problems, including time pressures and shortage of experts, stemmed from the company's huge growth in recent years. "That is not zero," he said, referring to quality problems rooted in Toyota's expansion.
Jim,I've had Toyota vehicles for years and they were a better built vehicles in the past.
My list price $30K '07 Camry was a POS.I hated the car.I explained the issues I had in this thread.
My IS had issues.Minor issues like rattles,creaks but issues.Also had a rear suspension issue when I traded the car in.
I figured I'd give Lexus another shot and buy a GS.
Again,my Lexus service advisor said I'll be getting the dash rattles and creaks that have been a problem the last three years in the GS when the cold weather arrives.
My $52460 list GS.
The RX is a lease so I'm not that **** about the vehicle.If there is a problem,I'll get a loaner and save some mileage.
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I treat it like a rental which it is.Don't buy it when I turn it in.
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
The internet is full of article on Toyota's decline in quality.
Toyota execs admit that fact and say they're taking steps to turn it around.
![Uhh...](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/1387914497.gif)
#77
Lexus Test Driver
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A lot of these new Toyota / Lexus have small problems that drives some people crazy but its not serious enough to report it. Like some one mentioned earlier. there are people like my wife who thinks that cars are no more than just a few thousand mechanical parts thrown together and it is suppose to rattle and squeak. Then there are people like me who think that when you pay over $50K for a car, it should have no rattle to say the least.
I been driving Toyota / Lexus for over 15 years. what **** me off is that the older Toyota / Lexus was built solid, no rattles and squeak when new. So I know Toyota knows how to built a solid car, they have choose not to to save a few bucks.
I honestly dont think my next car will be another Lexus.
I been driving Toyota / Lexus for over 15 years. what **** me off is that the older Toyota / Lexus was built solid, no rattles and squeak when new. So I know Toyota knows how to built a solid car, they have choose not to to save a few bucks.
I honestly dont think my next car will be another Lexus.
#78
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I actually got my RX300 largely due to Mexico (and it had to be an AWD vehicle) and Toyota had to at least be opening its doors or in the process of opening its doors. However, the other part of the equation is that it had to be a vehicle that I was going to keep for a long time, and at the time Lexus had the best reliability ratings going. My parents and I (and even my girlfriend) tend to keep vehicles for a long time.
#79
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A lot of these new Toyota / Lexus have small problems that drives some people crazy but its not serious enough to report it. Like some one mentioned earlier. there are people like my wife who thinks that cars are no more than just a few thousand mechanical parts thrown together and it is suppose to rattle and squeak. Then there are people like me who think that when you pay over $50K for a car, it should have no rattle to say the least.
I been driving Toyota / Lexus for over 15 years. what **** me off is that the older Toyota / Lexus was built solid, no rattles and squeak when new. So I know Toyota knows how to built a solid car, they have choose not to to save a few bucks.
I honestly dont think my next car will be another Lexus.
I been driving Toyota / Lexus for over 15 years. what **** me off is that the older Toyota / Lexus was built solid, no rattles and squeak when new. So I know Toyota knows how to built a solid car, they have choose not to to save a few bucks.
I honestly dont think my next car will be another Lexus.
I don't know how you determined that "a lot" of new Toyota / Lexus vehicles have small problems that go unreported. Care to elaborate on your factual basis for that claim. Also, what is "a lot" in your mind, 10, 100, 1000, 10,000? Or is this just your opinion based on your experience?
Opinions are great and certainly if you are not happy with your vehicle choice you should get rid of it and get something you like better. BTW, I want to know what manufacturer makes their vehicles so well that none of them ever squeaks, rattles or have the occasional niggling problem for it's owner.
I'm trying to get opinions and emotions out of the way of actual analysis of the quality metrics data.
I'll repost this in case you missed it earlier. My point is that TSB/Recall data is a far better indicator of overall vehicle quality than a few unhappy forum member's opinions. You can go to any automotive forum and find a few posters who are unhappy with their vehicles. This is not a scientific analysis of that vehicle's quality, only their opinions based on their experiences. Three or four unhappy forum members is not a statistically valid sample. The TSB/Recall info, OTOH, covers the entire gamut of owners and is much more revealing.
Recall data for all Toyota vehicles
14 in 2005 covering 2.28m vehicles
12 in 2006 covering 814k vehicles
6 in 2007 covering 640k vehicles
TSB / Safety Recall data for the Lexus RX330/350
2004 = 58 / 3
2005 = 25 / 1
2006 = 13 / 0
2007 = 7 / 0
2008 = 6 / 0
T O T A L 2004 - 2008 = 109 / 4
How does that compare to some other manufacturers?
TSB / Safety Recall data for the Acura MDX
2004 = 84 / 1
2005 = 34 / 2
2006 = 7 / 2
2007 = 3 / 1
2008 = 2 / 1
T O T A L 2004 - 2008 = 130 / 7
TSB / Safety Recall data for the Cadillac Escalade (LOL)
2004 = 280 / 4
2005 = 151 / 4
2006 = 65 / 2
2007 = 126 / 1
2008 = 58 / 1
T O T A L 2004 - 2008 = 680 / 12
Now these results are not necessarily representative of all Toyota / Acura / GM vehicles but solely a narrow snapshot of three specific vehicles. You can look up other manufacturers and models here: www.edmunds.com
I get it, that in your eyes and a couple others here, that you think the quality is declining but where is your statistical evidence? All manufacturers have occasional stumbles. Looking at this data doesn't seem to indicate that quality is declining at least for the vehicles analyzed. Quite the opposite is apparent.
This TSB/ SafetyRecall data is the closest thing I can find that gives an unbiased view of a products quality and trend line.
#80
Lexus Fanatic
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Don't need to post any.
I have the president of Toyota admitting quality is down.
"The president of Toyota Motor acknowledged Thursday its rapid global growth was partly behind an increase in quality problems in recent years."
"Watanabe said that at least some of the problems, including time pressures and shortage of experts, stemmed from the company's huge growth in recent years."
So should we believe you or the president of Toyota?
#81
Lexus Test Driver
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jfelbab, you know Lexus make other models beside the RX right
The RX have been for the most part pretty good quality when compare to othe new Lexus models. Just the GS alone have 25 TSB for 07 and those numbers are inline with the rest of the Lexus sedan lineup, except for the LS. The rattle problem is so common in the newer Lexus sedans that a lot of the Lexus dealers have a specialist in dealing with the rattles.
BTW jfelbab, are you still working for Toyota
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
BTW jfelbab, are you still working for Toyota
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#83
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jfelbab, you know Lexus make other models beside the RX right
The RX have been for the most part pretty good quality when compare to othe new Lexus models. Just the GS alone have 25 TSB for 07 and those numbers are inline with the rest of the Lexus sedan lineup, except for the LS. The rattle problem is so common in the newer Lexus sedans that a lot of the Lexus dealers have a specialist in dealing with the rattles.
BTW jfelbab, are you still working for Toyota![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
BTW jfelbab, are you still working for Toyota
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
He it is.
2004 GS300 = 1 / 0
2004 GS430 = 6 / 0
2005 GS300 = 1 / 0
2005 GS430 = 1 / 0
2006 GS300 = 12 / 3
2006 GS430 = 12 / 3
2007 GS350 = 1 / 0
2007 GS430 = 2 / 0
2008 GS350 = 2 / 0
2008 GS430 = 2 / 0
The numbers I posted come from the NHTSA and also were verified at Edmunds.
I don't work for Toyota, never have, nor does anyone I know.
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
ps: I also have no position in Toyota.
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#84
Lexus Test Driver
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jfelbab, your TSB source are wrong. I counted 63 TSB for the 06 Lexus GS alone:
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/31/06312321.html
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/31/06312321.html
#85
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jfelbab, your TSB source are wrong. I counted 63 TSB for the 06 Lexus GS alone:
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/31/06312321.html
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/31/06312321.html
The TSB's show no trend of degradation in quality over the past couple years. The numbers from the NHTSA are uniformly reported for all makes and models. They can be and were verified from a second respected source to insure accuracy.
Did you actually read that AllData link you posted? All but 12-15 of those 63 items listed are clearly not defect or quality related. They are, by-and-large, mostly informational notes to the dealerships service technicians. Why would you even consider counting items like "Sliding Roof Initialization Procedure", "Engine Lubrication - ILSAC GF-4 Oil Recommendation", "Windshield Wiper Blade Cleaning" or "Paint Codes" in a discussion about quality metrics?
Try to be logical about this. You can't ding a manufacturer's quality for sending notes like "A/C - Cabin Filter Replacement Procedure". LOL
Last edited by jfelbab; 09-15-08 at 07:34 PM.
#86
Lexus Champion
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Statistical evidence?
Don't need to post any.
I have the president of Toyota admitting quality is down.
"The president of Toyota Motor acknowledged Thursday its rapid global growth was partly behind an increase in quality problems in recent years."
"Watanabe said that at least some of the problems, including time pressures and shortage of experts, stemmed from the company's huge growth in recent years."
So should we believe you or the president of Toyota?
Don't need to post any.
I have the president of Toyota admitting quality is down.
"The president of Toyota Motor acknowledged Thursday its rapid global growth was partly behind an increase in quality problems in recent years."
"Watanabe said that at least some of the problems, including time pressures and shortage of experts, stemmed from the company's huge growth in recent years."
So should we believe you or the president of Toyota?
jfelbab, you know Lexus make other models beside the RX right
The RX have been for the most part pretty good quality when compare to othe new Lexus models. Just the GS alone have 25 TSB for 07 and those numbers are inline with the rest of the Lexus sedan lineup, except for the LS. The rattle problem is so common in the newer Lexus sedans that a lot of the Lexus dealers have a specialist in dealing with the rattles.
BTW jfelbab, are you still working for Toyota![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
BTW jfelbab, are you still working for Toyota
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
jfelbab, your TSB source are wrong. I counted 63 TSB for the 06 Lexus GS alone:
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/31/06312321.html
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/31/06312321.html
![Uhh...](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/1387914497.gif)
#87
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You must be reading a different Consumer Reports than I am.
November 07 Issue, Page 62, compares the Luxury sedans. They clearly liked the GS 450h and recommended it. Notice the big red checkmark by the the word Recommended.![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
April 08 Issue, Page 61, The 08 Lexus GS is recommended in the 350, 460, and 450h trim lines. Again notice the same red checkmark by the word Recommended.![Big Grin](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Also on their recommended list is the ES, GX, IS, LS, RX and SC.
Geez AM1, do you hate Lexus so much that you can't at least be accurate in your bashing?
November 07 Issue, Page 62, compares the Luxury sedans. They clearly liked the GS 450h and recommended it. Notice the big red checkmark by the the word Recommended.
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
April 08 Issue, Page 61, The 08 Lexus GS is recommended in the 350, 460, and 450h trim lines. Again notice the same red checkmark by the word Recommended.
![Big Grin](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Also on their recommended list is the ES, GX, IS, LS, RX and SC.
Geez AM1, do you hate Lexus so much that you can't at least be accurate in your bashing?
![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
#88
Lexus Champion
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You must be reading a different Consumer Reports than I am.
November 07 Issue, Page 62, compares the Luxury sedans. They clearly liked the GS 450h and recommended it. Notice the big red checkmark by the the word Recommended.![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
April 08 Issue, Page 61, The 08 Lexus GS is recommended in the 350, 460, and 450h trim lines. Again notice the same red checkmark by the word Recommended.![Big Grin](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Also on their recommended list is the ES, GX, IS, LS, RX and SC.
Geez AM1, do you hate Lexus so much that you can't at least be accurate in your bashing?![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
November 07 Issue, Page 62, compares the Luxury sedans. They clearly liked the GS 450h and recommended it. Notice the big red checkmark by the the word Recommended.
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
April 08 Issue, Page 61, The 08 Lexus GS is recommended in the 350, 460, and 450h trim lines. Again notice the same red checkmark by the word Recommended.
![Big Grin](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Also on their recommended list is the ES, GX, IS, LS, RX and SC.
Geez AM1, do you hate Lexus so much that you can't at least be accurate in your bashing?
![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
![Uhh...](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/1387914497.gif)
#89
Lexus Test Driver
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Every car company goes thru cycles as far as quality is concerned. Lexus is at a low right now. I think MB and some of the American brands are actually climbing. The important thing for Lexus is to acknowledge the lower quality which they already did and try to turn things around. I use consumer report and JD power as a reference, I do not live by it, nor do I buy cars just because consumer report recommands it. They are reference and thats all they are. Believe it or not, if you filter out the trolls, forums like this is a very useful place to gather vehicle information.
#90
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This thread is no longer about the RX and is becoming personal.
If you'd like to continue a general quality discussion, there are plenty of threads in our Car Chat forum on this topic where you can share your opinions. This one is closed.
If you'd like to continue a general quality discussion, there are plenty of threads in our Car Chat forum on this topic where you can share your opinions. This one is closed.
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